Arbitration - Advice needed

[Huncowboy]

Hi,

I am wondering if anyone has any advice with the arbitration process. How to get it started, do I need a lawyer, any useful information, etc.

My issues is this:

2022 Model S with the following issues that Tesla is not able to fix:
- Car pulls hard left on acceleration and on regen. Otherwise it goes straight. They keep performing an alignment, it makes it better (but not fixed) for a bit but then it is off again just a few hundred miles later. They keep charging me for this alignment too.
- Car's steering yoke is never centered after an alignment, rather it is off to the left. They say it is within standards.
- Car is vibrating through 40-60 mph when under acceleration and anytime when cornering and accelerating at the same time. I.e. when you join into traffic in an intersection. (Same as many others are reporting in the long vibration thread.)

... and I also have a long list of other service issues that the car was in for, including a drive unit replacement that took 3-4 weeks. Those issues were addressed though. Car is still under bumper to bumper. It is a lease btw. So I am not sure what to ask for. I would be happy if they would just take it back and refund me for the down time.

Tomorrow I have a service scheduled, which will be my last attempt to get it fixed. I already know they will not do a thing as they have been super arrogant all along. I just figured I will make one recent attempt as the last time I was in was a few weeks ago.

Thanks for any help!

 

[TLLMRRJ]

So how does this not apply to op?

That would require me to read minds. I can only google.

 

[eskudo12791]

That would require me to read minds. I can only google.

Kewl. Just making sure you agreed that it should apply to op as I had read similar google things earlier

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Kewl. Just making sure you agreed that it should apply to op as I had read similar google things earlier

Yeah, the OP has some splaing to do!

 

[brkaus]

Have to understand exact dates car was in service and how it was all documented.

 

[golferguy]

Read pages 4-5 of your original order agreement. It specifies the Arbitration process. Follow it.

I did and we reached an amicable settlement. It was actually a decent experience.

 

[Huncowboy]

Yeah, the OP has some splaing to do!

I am in FL. I did not opt of the arbitration clause, so FL Lemon Law does not apply to me. That is my understanding. Am I wrong?

Read pages 4-5 of your original order agreement. It specifies the Arbitration process. Follow it.

I did and we reached an amicable settlement. It was actually a decent experience.

I have read the section about the arbitration. So other than sending an e-mail detailing the issues and the countless past issues I had with the vehicle (though most were fixed there were many and the car was out right around a month), attaching the invoices, what else should I do? Do I need a written notice sent certified mail? Anything else? TY in advance!

 

[golferguy]

I am in FL. I did not opt of the arbitration clause, so FL Lemon Law does not apply to me. That is my understanding. Am I wrong?


I have read the section about the arbitration. So other than sending an e-mail detailing the issues and the countless past issues I had with the vehicle (though most were fixed there were many and the car was out right around a month), attaching the invoices, what else should I do? Do I need a written notice sent certified mail? Anything else? TY in advance!

Your order copy (when you first ordered the car) doesn't mention the American Arbitration Assoc and those details? Including a web site IIRC. (This is not legal advice)

 

[brkaus]

This link - Consumer Pamphlet: Florida’s Motor Vehicle ‘Lemon Law’ – The Florida Bar - implies that arbitration must be done first. But not clear what arbitration process. if it's through the manufacturer or through Florida. Actually, it probably does say, but I don't live in Florida so I'm not that vested

 

[phaphaphooey]

Talk to a local attorney to at least get some guidance on the process and your options. You will get actual answers applicable specifically to you instead of strangers trying to guess at your situation on the internet. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Huncowboy]

Your order copy (when you first ordered the car) doesn't mention the American Arbitration Assoc and those details? Including a web site IIRC. (This is not legal advice)

It does. But there are no details. All it says is:
1. Send an e-mail with you request to [email protected]
2. If not resolved in 60 days file with AAA.

It seams others here had the whole process completed within 60 days or less.

 

[Jr Mint]

My car has a vibration as well under light load between 35 and 55ish. They are replacing my axles to hopefully fix it. It's not a huge deal, but would be nice if it goes away. Regarding the alignment, why not go to a non tesla shop that works on sports cars that can align it? Do that first. For steering wheel alignment, most places hire inexperienced guys and they don't end up aligning the wheel after driving it. This should get fixed if you choose a place that works on more expensive cars like a speed shop type place.

 

[theslimshadyist]

How does one opt out of arbitration at time of purchase?

 

[golferguy]

It does. But there are no details. All it says is:
1. Send an e-mail with you request to [email protected]
2. If not resolved in 60 days file with AAA.

It seams others here had the whole process completed within 60 days or less.

My copy is about 9 months old and shows info on AAA. Tesla must have removed it. So they removed the url. But I know the American Arbitration Assoc. web site explains what do do.

 

[Kairide]

How does one opt out of arbitration at time of purchase?

It’s in your Motor Vehicle Order Agreement.

 

[Huncowboy]

Little update for those who are interested in Arbitration and also live in Florida. If you live in FL, you do not need to wait for the arbitration result with Tesla. The law still applies. (Which is the opposite what I have found just googling.) If your car has been out of service for 30 days, and or the same issue reoccurs 3-4x, and you are within 2 years of deliver, you are covered and you have a valid case. However, it does take 4-6 months to get a hearing and a decision. I was quoted $5k for legal representation plus fees. (Only due if the case is ruled in my favor.)

For now I ended up just filing for arbitration, as that only takes 2 months and costs me nothing. Knowing that if it fails I still have time to file under the lemon law. According to the lawyer I have a case with the reoccurring issue, and I am almost at 30 days with the service time anyways.

 

[Huncowboy]

Just to close this thread for future readers. I no longer have a Tesla Model S. I cannot say anything else as I had to sign a NDA.

I will say that indeed Florida Lemon Law applies regardless of opting in or out of arbitration with Tesla. I did not opt out. I will also say I had to get a lawyer in the end and the process outlined in the Order Agreement... well... Just get a lawyer, you pay nothing upfront. Start there. A lawyer will tell you in two minutes if you have a case or not. From there it is VERY streamlined. I cannot say if my case went to arbitration or not (because the Florida Lemon Law is also an arbitration process) but my guess is most cases do not end up in actual arbitration.

While I cannot say any details, I can point to the Florida State Attorney General's website that very nicely sums up what can be expected if one is entitled to a refund. It is a LOT you can expect. Basically every penny you've ever paid, uber, car rentals, deposit, all the lease fees, all interest charges, etc... except legal fees. There is a usage fee that is the responsibility of the owner/lessee. Add all your expenses, deduct the usage fee. It is a simple formula to calculate.

Lemon Law Remedy Calculation Guideline | My Florida Legal

www.myfloridalegal.com

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Just to close this thread for future readers. I no longer have a Tesla Model S. I cannot say anything else as I had to sign a NDA.

I will say that indeed Florida Lemon Law applies regardless of opting in or out of arbitration with Tesla. I did not opt out. I will also say I had to get a lawyer in the end and the process outlined in the Order Agreement... well... Just get a lawyer, you pay nothing upfront. Start there. A lawyer will tell you in two minutes if you have a case or not. From there it is VERY streamlined. I cannot say if my case went to arbitration or not (because the Florida Lemon Law is also an arbitration process) but my guess is most cases do not end up in actual arbitration.

While I cannot say any details, I can point to the Florida State Attorney General's website that very nicely sums up what can be expected if one is entitled to a refund. It is a LOT you can expect. Basically every penny you've ever paid, uber, car rentals, deposit, all the lease fees, all interest charges, etc... except legal fees. There is a usage fee that is the responsibility of the owner/lessee. Add all your expenses, deduct the usage fee. It is a simple formula to calculate.

Lemon Law Remedy Calculation Guideline | My Florida Legal

www.myfloridalegal.com

Good job getting rid of your Model S. I did the same. Life is too short.

 

[golferguy]

I beat Tesla in Arbitration once, and a second time in small claims court. Two different cars and issues.
Unfortunately too many of us have to use legal means to get good customer service.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I beat Tesla in Arbitration once, and a second time in small claims court. Two different cars and issues.
Unfortunately too many of us have to use legal means to get good customer service.

I am convinced that is the plan from the top. So many people think they have nothing to worry about with modding their Tesla's because they have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to protect them. But Tesla has done the math, and most people don't want to go to all the trouble you did, so Tesla knows they will come out way ahead denying warranty claims for modded cars, and also claims they just don't feel like covering under warranty, like poor build quality.

 

[Huncowboy]

I am convinced that is the plan from the top. So many people think they have nothing to worry about with modding their Tesla's because they have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to protect them. But Tesla has done the math, and most people don't want to go to all the trouble you did, so Tesla knows they will come out way ahead denying warranty claims for modded cars, and also claims they just don't feel like covering under warranty, like poor build quality.

Congrats to you too! I am starting the process with our X as well next week. Same exact thing. Pulls left on acceleration ever since it crossed 20k miles. Just like the S was. Replaced the S with a high end Mercedes. So nice to have a nice car again, and so sad that Tesla does not give a crap about their product and customers. Indeed life is too short.