Are Elon's COVID rants affecting how you think about your Tesla?

[lascavarian]

Having read the book on Elon. Some dickishness is evident in the book. Lots of great stuff but also some hard edges showing.

I was giving a presentation on EVs (not solely on Tesla) one evening and an audience member approached my spouse and offered that they had recently moved from the Fremont area and they had a neighbor who worked for Tesla and had some harsh comments specific to EM. Ok, fits with the book. Still totally love the guy.

Dragging your children into the media qualifies as dickish to me. If you are planning to make a public argument about "rights" then it might be a good idea to preserve the privacy rights of your new born child and not hang them out for some of that sweet media buzz. This is shared by the mother presumably. It does show them to be a pretty good match in the "its all about me" category. Again, my spouse was quick to react to dragging the child into the media. EM has kept his other children out of the media which was respectful. What changed?

Selling properties, ok but just do it. It is not an "alert the media" event. It seems to show a lack of self-awareness somehow.

Then the fiasco with the county, the personal attack directed to the individual public health official, again all appearing graceless and dickish in a time when we are ALL experiencing significant frustration in the name of the public good.

Then the "Take me!" line when he realized there might be workers arrested. Only afterward did the promotion go through for the plant manager position. How would workers feel putting themselves at risk and then realize the company CEO might end up in jail. Seems a bit unmoored from an actual functional plan to open the plant.

So yep, EM has managed to move into the occasionally selfish and needlessly dickish category to the extent that my spouse for the first time is less than fully supportive of getting the CT. Given my commitment to EVs, this was not an easy accomplishment.

I am pretty sure I am not alone. Of course this has happened before but there was something about his recent actions when the entire world is stressing under the weight of a global pandemic that had an unpleasantness that may stick to him a little longer than past escapades.

And then I wonder if there is something else at work and this is just a symptom? I tend to think of SpaceX as his happy place but maybe something has come up there. Just be happy to put all this recent stuff in the rear view screen and want to get past it somehow.

 

[Tam]

I'm with Elon, I think he was right to do what he did, and what he said. On Tv your Governor said he was going to put people in jail that he caught outside. What a police state you live in. I will never live in Calif.

[citation for 'putting people in jail' needed]

Here are some citations that are contrary to the thinking of law enforcement is the practice for California Lockdown Order:

"And instead of calling on the National Guard to patrol the streets, the 52-year-old Democrat continues to enlist Californians to pressure one another to "bend the curve."

"That social pressure we're seeing out there for people to do the right thing is the most powerful enforcement tool we have and we'll continue to use that as our moral authority advanced all throughout the state of California," Newsom said Monday"

Should California punish people who refuse to stay home? Newsom prefers social pressure

Another state that follows that example is Texas that exempts the religious gathering from the lockdown order: The government didn't have to tell the Catholic Church to stop the public masses and there were no arrests but the pause is being enforced by the peer pressure itself: The Catholic Church!

Texas church to close after priest dies after COVID-19 infection

 

[cali8484]

The Cult of Elon Is Cracking

His behavior with COVID-19 seems to have generated qualitatively different reaction from many more Tesla supporters compared to his previous rants.

 

[linux-works]

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain"

and no, musk is not the goddamn batman, either

 

[linux-works]

how many people know that they need a citation, how many people do you think were in fear of going to jail if they left there homes?

could you rephrase that. maybe in the form of an actual coherent thought.

 

[XLR82XS]

Nope.

 

[Killroy]

Nope. Panic is Dumb.

Elon is being Elon. It does not mean that I think that his tweets are great. I wish he would keep some to himself.

 

[Killroy]

Elon did comment on his Twitter use here:

 

[Az_Rael]

Here are some citations that are contrary to the thinking of law enforcement is the practice for California Lockdown Order:

I think there must be some conspiracy theory type stuff about CA’s lockdown that must be floating around the dark web (aka: Facebook). We got a call from my mother in law who had heard from a “friend of a friend” who supposedly lives in LA that “tanks were in the streets” there to keep people inside. So she called us to ask if we had seen said tanks and were we worried about the tanks. We assured her there are no tanks and we were allowed to move about freely as needed for essential services just like they were.

 

[Iain]

Nope, he even just said a bunch of stuff he’s said on Twitter is dumb. Personally my observation of people like Musk is they have some strange behavior mixed with genius thoughts. I bought a Tesla for multiple reasons, non of them based on Musks twitter account.

 

[house9]

how many people know that they need a citation, how many people do you think were in fear of going to jail if they left there homes?

Getting a citation and going to jail are two very different things.

Each county and city are handling things differently it seems. I am ‘sheltering in place’ for the most part, getting outside to exercise as much as possible - i don’t know anyone who is worried about being thrown in jail for leaving their homes?

California is a great place to live, even during a global pandemic.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

We as customers have to accept he's a libertarian, and that will heavily shape the what he tweets along with the direction he takes the company.

As an example the FSD option is a very libertarian thing. It puts a lot of responsibility on the operator to oversee it whether or not the human can really reliably perform that task. They also release features well before they're proven out so the human really has to oversee it or things will go bad.

It's also why Europeans will have a different relationship with their car. They already live in a lot less libertarian area of the world where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. So they have tighter restrictions over the FSD features, and they have CCS charge ports for their Model 3's.

 

[Economite]

We as customers have to accept he's a libertarian, and that will heavily shape the what he tweets along with the direction he takes the company.

As an example the FSD option is a very libertarian thing. It puts a lot of responsibility on the operator to oversee it whether or not the human can really reliably perform that task. They also release features well before they're proven out so the human really has to oversee it or things will go bad.

It's also why Europeans will have a different relationship with their car. They already live in a lot less libertarian area of the world where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. So they have tighter restrictions over the FSD features, and they have CCS charge ports for their Model 3's.

Except he's not really much of a libertarian.

He demands massive subsidies from state and local governments where he locates his plants, SpaceX is basically a government contractor, Solar City had a business plan that was largely dependant on its customers getting incentives from the government and utilities to outrage it's products, and Tesla has structured itself-- to some extent-- around subsidies given to its customers and EV credits paid for by is competitors.

And Musk consistently lobbies for extensions or expansions of the a subsidies and for regulations that will hobble his competitors (or at least cosy them money).

It strikes me that he's less of a libertarian and more of a person who doesn't believe that any government should have the right to tell him not to do whatever it is he wants to do. But he also wants the government to subsidize his activities and his customers. And he wants his competitors to be regulated or to have to subsidize him.

He thinks he's saving the world, and therefore he thinks that he should be allowed to do whatever he wants and that government should pay him to do it.

That's not really libertarianism. It's just arrogance and narcissism.

 

[roblab]

Except he's not really much of a libertarian.

He demands massive subsidies from state and local governments where he locates his plants, SpaceX is basically a government contractor, Solar City had a business plan that was largely dependant on its customers getting incentives from the government and utilities to outrage it's products, and Tesla has structured itself-- to some extent-- around subsidies given to its customers and EV credits paid for by is competitors.

And Musk consistently lobbies for extensions or expansions of the a subsidies and for regulations that will hobble his competitors (or at least cosy them money).

And this is called good business. He hasn't done a thing illegal. He's built the best car on the planet, a rocket that's prepping for Mars, and a truly boring machine on top of (or under) that. Since I put some money into Tesla stock a few years ago, it has made me a rich man, at least in my own mind. I don't buy into Musk's personal behavior, nor do I have to, as it does not affect me. He still makes the best car EVER!

 

[Economite]

And this is called good business. He hasn't done a thing illegal. He's built the best car on the planet, a rocket that's prepping for Mars, and a truly boring machine on top of (or under) that. Since I put some money into Tesla stock a few years ago, it has made me a rich man, at least in my own mind. I don't buy into Musk's personal behavior, nor do I have to, as it does not affect me. He still makes the best car EVER!

So do you think that everyone should (without consequences) be able to violate (or at least game) any laws, securities regulations, social norms and health orders that they find inconvenient, or is that right reserved for Elon (or for people as rich and litigious and economically influential as Elon)?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

He thinks he's saving the world

But, even in "saving the world" he's chosen a very libertarian path. That path is not a humanitarian path like Bill Gates that reduces consumption, solves diseases, and tries to reduce population.

Instead its one of having everything.

The entire purpose of my Tesla is that it doesn't have compromises. I can still generally drive where I need to without worrying about range, and I can do it with less worry because I've put the pollution aspects onto other parties. The people who generate my energy, and the people who will recycle my battery.

The Boring companies purpose is to allow us to get around traffic. It pushes the idea that the car is the cornerstone of transportation. Sure it can be used for other purposes, but we all know it's main purpose.

Part of the purpose of SpaceX is an attempt to colonize another planet which is not to just to make us multi-planetary, but to continue the expansion of the human race.

All these things are very individualist.

I enjoy them because of that.

Of course I still highly value what Bill Gates is trying to do.

 

[Economite]

I enjoy them because of that.

Of course I still highly value what Bill Gates is trying to do.

Fine to enjoy these things you attribute to Musk. But are they worthy of allowing him to pick and choose the law he hill bother to follow and of using tax dollars to subsidize his businesses and the purchase of their products?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Fine to enjoy these things you attribute to Musk. But are they worthy of allowing him to pick and choose the law he hill bother to follow and of using tax dollars to subsidize his businesses and the purchase of their products?

Is using tax dollars to subsidize a business any different than any other corporation? If we held ourselves to that strict of accountability on what we bought we wouldn't be able to buy anything. Not only that, but we simply wouldn't be globally competitive.

When I bought my first Tesla I wasn't bothered by the sales tax exemption I got nor the $7500 federal tax credit I got. Sure I knew it was a gift to the manufacture so it really wasn't for me.

Elon seemed pretty cool at the time so he acted as a positive influence in getting the car. Who wouldn't want to buy a car from Ironman?

Over time things changed. Elon started to act more erratically, and then did the unthinkable in promising full self driving. Very quickly between 2015, and 2018 Elon became a liability.

When I bought my second Tesla in 2018 I did despite Elon. When I picked up the car was right around the fallout of the 420 tweet.

The chief reason I did so was really the lack of competitors. No one else had a compelling option, and the vehicle itself was very compelling.

One of the reasons it was so compelling is all the government money paved the way for a much lower cost vehicle. So much so that Tesla is still competitive with competition despite no longer qualifying for the $7500 federal tax credit. When the tax credit disappeared Tesla made it $7500 cheaper. Tesla bet the entire company on the Model 3, and the Gigafactory.

You know who else it worked for? The federal government as SpaceX saves us a lot of money, and also saves us the embarrassment of having to ride Russian rockets to the space station.

I definitely agree with you that Elon chases government money, but if they pay off for the greater good then who cares?

 

[Killroy]

Except he's not really much of a libertarian.

He demands massive subsidies from state and local governments where he locates his plants, SpaceX is basically a government contractor, Solar City had a business plan that was largely dependant on its customers getting incentives from the government and utilities to outrage it's products, and Tesla has structured itself-- to some extent-- around subsidies given to its customers and EV credits paid for by is competitors.

And Musk consistently lobbies for extensions or expansions of the a subsidies and for regulations that will hobble his competitors (or at least cosy them money).

It strikes me that he's less of a libertarian and more of a person who doesn't believe that any government should have the right to tell him not to do whatever it is he wants to do. But he also wants the government to subsidize his activities and his customers. And he wants his competitors to be regulated or to have to subsidize him.

He thinks he's saving the world, and therefore he thinks that he should be allowed to do whatever he wants and that government should pay him to do it.

That's not really libertarianism. It's just arrogance and narcissism.

Elon describes his politics as moderate- social liberal and fiscal conservative. That is not the same as libertarian.

When you own your own business, you try and limit what is lost to taxes. Typically, the subsidies that Tesla receives is tax breaks, and Tesla is not the only company that gets tax breaks. Many tax breaks to go EV buyers.