Are NC personal property taxes included in the cost of a Model 3?

[ethankr]

Hello all,

I'm anticipating delivery in at the end of May and I live in the state of North Carolina where there is personal property tax on vehicles. I know Tesla registers your car at delivery and (I assume) mails you the license plate after the temp plate expires. My question is: when I moved to NC from NJ and had to register my current car in NC I had to pay personal property on my current car to get it registered.

Will Tesla do this for me when they are registering my Model 3? I noticed the price breakdown of the car includes $1,456.70 of "Taxes & Fees". $1,238.70 for sales tax and $218 for registration/transfer/title fees.

Anyone that has bought a Tesla in the state of North Carolina, does the "Sales Tax" include NC's personal property tax or will I have to go to the DMV to pay that seperately?

 

[ewslavin]

Hello all,

I'm anticipating delivery in at the end of May and I live in the state of North Carolina where there is personal property tax on vehicles. I know Tesla registers your car at delivery and (I assume) mails you the license plate after the temp plate expires. My question is: when I moved to NC from NJ and had to register my current car in NC I had to pay personal property on my current car to get it registered.

Will Tesla do this for me when they are registering my Model 3? I noticed the price breakdown of the car includes $1,456.70 of "Taxes & Fees". $1,238.70 for sales tax and $218 for registration/transfer/title fees.

Anyone that has bought a Tesla in the state of North Carolina, does the "Sales Tax" include NC's personal property tax or will I have to go to the DMV to pay that seperately?

I have purchased many vehicles in NC including two Tesla's, county property taxes are collected when the permanent license tags are purchased and vary by county.

 

[ellett]

Your Tesla invoice will show exactly what is included. State property taxes will not be part of the invoice.

Property taxes are virtually always collected as part of the registration/licensing process, not the sale process.

 

[SurfcasterPE]

We took delivery 2 weeks ago and just got our 'permanent' NC plate in the mail today along with the $650 property tax bill. It's due at the end of May or the tag will expire.

 

[ElectricIAC]

We took delivery 2 weeks ago and just got our 'permanent' NC plate in the mail today along with the $650 property tax bill. It's due at the end of May or the tag will expire.

That’s just offensive. Not enough to collect sales tax but they have to pile on property tax on a *depreciating* asset. VA apparently is just as onerous.

 

[diamond.g]

That’s just offensive. Not enough to collect sales tax but they have to pile on property tax on a *depreciating* asset. VA apparently is just as onerous.

The fee is county specific, my property tax is 290, the registration fee is 166 (includes NC's 130 electric vehicle fee).

 

[SalisburySam]

Remember also that personal property tax is not a one-time thing. You will pay this at registration every year. The tax does go down a bit with the age of the vehicle but will be a healthy chunk of cash forever. Actual registration in NC is $36 plus the $130 EV penalty fee. There may be others charges like vanity plates, etc.

 

[ElectricIAC]

EV penalty. That’s cute.

 

[Knightshade]

EV penalty. That’s cute.

It's really not a "penalty"

Most road funding is via the gasoline tax- which EVs don't pay.

Even at $130 that fee is significantly less than I used to pay annually in gas taxes- by quite a bit.

IIRC there are a couple states that actually have a relatively punitive EV tax (ie significantly more than the average driver pays in gasoline tax on an ICE vehicle) but NC isn't one of them.

 

[SurfcasterPE]

The fee is county specific, my property tax is 290, the registration fee is 166 (includes NC's 130 electric vehicle fee).

True, true. Our $650 was just for property taxes to Wake County and Town of Cary. The $166 registration piece was paid at delivery.

 

[diamond.g]

True, true. Our $650 was just for property taxes to Wake County and Town of Cary. The $166 registration piece was paid at delivery.

Our county likes it’s taxes lower courtesy of tourists visiting Corolla.

 

[vickh]

That’s just offensive. Not enough to collect sales tax but they have to pile on property tax on a *depreciating* asset. VA apparently is just as onerous.

we're lucky in AZ. EV's waived from VLT for now (till 2022 I believe). It's one reason I would never buy a new non EV luxury car here in AZ

You're lucky in TX. No state income tax and flat fee car registration. I know property taxes are really high, but you can always buy a smaller house (and buck the trend!)

 

[ElectricIAC]

we're lucky in AZ. EV's waived from VLT for now (till 2022 I believe). It's one reason I would never buy a new non EV luxury car here in AZ

You're lucky in TX. No state income tax and flat fee car registration. I know property taxes are really high, but you can always buy a smaller house (and buck the trend!)

Who buys a smaller house? And yes, property taxes on homes are ridiculous here.

 

[vickh]

Who buys a smaller house? And yes, property taxes on homes are ridiculous here.

I know everything's bigger there (live in Houston and Lakeway) I'm a contrarian though (and hence the EV car )

Of all taxes I like property b/c they give you the most macro "control" and easiest to file. I hate having to do my income taxes twice here in AZ (and we have property tax too although it's low)

 

[AdamMacDon]

I'm actually looking at relocation to NC for work (I live in BC, Canada right now). I currently have a 2019 SR+, I mostly chose it over the higher trim models because here in BC we have a program where the government will give you $10,000 towards your down payment for an EV under $55k MSRP (only the SR+ hits this price point here). After driving a dual motor, I want to get a performance model, and I would consider trading in for a 2021 P3D.

I've been reading up on the vehicle tax system for NC and now I'm more confused than ever. At first I read 3% tax and I was excited, since the tax here is a whopping one time 14% due at the time of sale (ate a good 80% of that $10k incentive). Three percent on a $57k P3D is less than $2k, so barely worth worrying about. But now I'm hearing that you have to pay this tax annually? I pay annual property taxes here, which I understand for my house. But in NC you must pay property taxes on cars too? Do they factor in depreciation or are you stuck paying $1,700 every year for a P3D, PLUS a $130 fee for owning an EV? That fee is pretty insane since every time I'm in the US it seems I see gas under $4/gallon (perhaps lower in NC, even), so unless you drive a Lamborghini 15k miles a year I think $130/year in road taxes is gonna be hard to rack up.

If any fellow Tesla owners (especially in the Cary area) have experience with this, I'd really appreciate your insight, Thanks!

 

[Knightshade]

I'm actually looking at relocation to NC for work (I live in BC, Canada right now). I currently have a 2019 SR+, I mostly chose it over the higher trim models because here in BC we have a program where the government will give you $10,000 towards your down payment for an EV under $55k MSRP (only the SR+ hits this price point here). After driving a dual motor, I want to get a performance model, and I would consider trading in for a 2021 P3D.

I've been reading up on the vehicle tax system for NC and now I'm more confused than ever. At first I read 3% tax and I was excited, since the tax here is a whopping one time 14% due at the time of sale (ate a good 80% of that $10k incentive). Three percent on a $57k P3D is less than $2k, so barely worth worrying about. But now I'm hearing that you have to pay this tax annually? I pay annual property taxes here, which I understand for my house. But in NC you must pay property taxes on cars too? Do they factor in depreciation or are you stuck paying $1,700 every year for a P3D, PLUS a $130 fee for owning an EV? That fee is pretty insane since every time I'm in the US it seems I see gas under $4/gallon (perhaps lower in NC, even), so unless you drive a Lamborghini 15k miles a year I think $130/year in road taxes is gonna be hard to rack up.

If any fellow Tesla owners (especially in the Cary area) have experience with this, I'd really appreciate your insight, Thanks!

3% is the sales tax when you purchase the vehicle...you pay this once, as part of the purchase price.

There's an annual property tax you pay as part of your annual registration that varies in cost by city/county...and yes it goes down each year with depreciation as it's directly based on car value (the variable is that the actual rate is different in different places in the state)



The $130 is a flat EV registration fee- because our roads are funded with gasoline taxes. Which EVs pay $0.00 toward.

35.4 cents per gallon is the gasoline tax BTW. So $130/35.4 cents is 367.23 gallons of gas.

The average new vehicle in the US gets ~25 mpg... so 367.23 gallons gets you about 9181 miles.

Which is well below average driving in the US.

Meaning the $130 fee is still significantly less than you'd otherwise pay in gas taxes on average.... (obviously if you only drive 5k miles a year in a prius it's another story).


Plus how much cheaper electricity is than gasoline of course- I save about $2000 a year on that alone.


Anyway-Cary would be in Wake county.

NC DMV has a property tax calculator here-
Estimate my vehicle property taxes | NCDMV

Let's say you got a new P3D for around 60k, $672.42 would be the estimated property tax (based on my previous address in Cary)

$565.35 at 50k car value... $458.28 at 40k car value...and so on.

 

[ElectricIAC]

What’s their guide for determining “value” yearly though? With a vehicle that currently leads the pack in RV I’d be more than annoyed to be paying .5-1% of that yearly.

 

[AdamMacDon]

3% is the sales tax when you purchase the vehicle...you pay this once, as part of the purchase price.

There's an annual property tax you pay as part of your annual registration that varies in cost by city/county...and yes it goes down each year with depreciation as it's directly based on car value (the variable is that the actual rate is different in different places in the state)



The $130 is a flat EV registration fee- because our roads are funded with gasoline taxes. Which EVs pay $0.00 toward.

35.4 cents per gallon is the gasoline tax BTW. So $130/35.4 cents is 367.23 gallons of gas.

The average new vehicle in the US gets ~25 mpg... so 367.23 gallons gets you about 9181 miles.

Which is well below average driving in the US.

Meaning the $130 fee is still significantly less than you'd otherwise pay in gas taxes on average.... (obviously if you only drive 5k miles a year in a prius it's another story).


Plus how much cheaper electricity is than gasoline of course- I save about $2000 a year on that alone.


Anyway-Cary would be in Wake county.

NC DMV has a property tax calculator here-
Estimate my vehicle property taxes | NCDMV

Let's say you got a new P3D for around 60k, $672.42 would be the estimated property tax (based on my previous address in Cary)

$565.35 at 50k car value... $458.28 at 40k car value...and so on.

Almost 10,000 miles a year seems rather high. I used to deliver pizzas and drove maybe 12k miles a year. Might just be a difference with where I live versus the US though, stuff seems more spread out there and driving 30 minutes or more to work doesn't seem as rare. Where this calculation really falls apart is the Tesla doesn't get 25mpg, I think all of the 3's have triple digit MPGe (even the P). Sure it's not directly the same, but if you pay a premium for a car that has incredible efficiency, it seems like one should be rewarded for it, or at least not penalized. 9k miles a year is easily doable, but 36k is not so believable unless you drive for Uber or something.

Anyhow at the end of the day, what is $130/year if you own a P3D, it's a very first world problem. I'm glad to hear after running the numbers on the calculator it'd be about $660, similar to what you got. So about $800 a year... I'd have to own the car around 8 years to equal the same amount of tax I paid here in socialist BC, and that money was due up front.

Is this annual tax system for cars a standard thing in the US, or is this only in a few lucky states?

 

[Knightshade]

Almost 10,000 miles a year seems rather high.

It's actually rather low.

The average american drives 13,474 miles per year.

Source:
How Much Do Americans Drive? (2020 Research Infographic)

Where this calculation really falls apart is the Tesla doesn't get 25mpg, I think all of the 3's have triple digit MPGe (even the P). Sure it's not directly the same, but if you pay a premium for a car that has incredible efficiency, it seems like one should be rewarded for it, or at least not penalized. 9k miles a year is easily doable, but 36k is not so believable unless you drive for Uber or something.

... not really sure what you're trying to say here...


25mpg is the average new vehicle in the US.

Which actually costs slightly more than the cheapest Model 3.

So at the NC gas tax rate, you'd pay more than $130/yr in gasoline tax here if you drive the average new gas car more than a little over 9k miles...

Since the average american drives 13,474 miles they'd be paying roughly 25% more in gas tax than that EV tax they pay with a Tesla.

Hence the Tesla works out cheaper than the average gasoline car as far as the the taxes paid toward roads.

Is this annual tax system for cars a standard thing in the US, or is this only in a few lucky states?

A little more than half of US states have vehicle property taxes (I think it's 27 out of 50 last I checked?)

NCs is relatively low (1.23% plus whatever your specific county/town adds on).... in contrast Virginias is just over 4%


But of course states without it have to make up that tax $ in other ways (real property taxes- which property owners pay, and renters pay for indirectly...sales taxes that everyone pays... payroll and income taxes...etc...)

 

[Knightshade]

What’s their guide for determining “value” yearly though? With a vehicle that currently leads the pack in RV I’d be more than annoyed to be paying .5-1% of that yearly.

It's an interesting system for used cars... (for new cars they obviously use the transaction price of the actual car)

For used cars they use the averages of transaction pricing within the state from the past year... (dunno their data sources- presumably the same ones folks like KBB use just filtered specifically to NC)

You have 30 days to appeal to the county tax assessor if you wish and have justification (like you drive a ton of miles so your value should be lower than average or something I guess)

But yes- good resale means your tax will be higher longer.... learned that lesson on my previous Lexus where I sold it for about 35% what I paid for it new 11 years earlier.