Arizona Powerwall Installs

[gpez]

Mine is planned to be 10.2 kW the 11.3 kW was referring to destructure00. I have looked at my peak usage over 1 hr from this summer from SRPs data logger and my 1 hour peaks are ~ 12.5 kWH/hr and this is likely with 2x ACs running full 100% with maybe a dishwasher/clostheswasher/pool pump during my current pre-cool period for the EZ-3 TOU from 3-6. I think 4 is probably not needed and 3 will fully cover the peaks... it certainly can with the 15 kW capacity and I think 3 would be enough to 0 out my demand.

Even with Tesla low prices the payback on these should will be many years :/ I guess this is for the environment too...

As far as PW physical placement. I know they have cooling units, but does it make sense to install them inside my garage instead of outside on a non-direct sunlight wall? I am mostly thinking about longevity of these things. Does Tesla have any reliability/life cycle data on these batteries? Charge/Discharge %s vs life? I would think if you were draining 2 batteries 100% every day they would die sooner than using 4 batteries to 50%. Any idea how much energy do the battery cooling units use or what technology they use on them?

The more you are able to keep the Powerwalls inside of their recommended operating temperatures of 0°C to 30°C (32°F to 86°F) the better. https://www.tesla.com/sites/default.../Powerwall 2_AC_Datasheet_en_northamerica.pdf

Tesla warranties Powerwalls to retain 70% of their capacity after 10 years. https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall_2_AC_Warranty_USA_1-1.pdf

Anecdotal historical capacity reports from members of this board are here Total Pack Power vs. Ownership Lifetime.

 

[BLRR]

PowerWalls were installed today. Theres still two meters that need to be installed one for the Powerwalls and one for the solar panels. I see the Service Main disconnect. Can I do off grid testing without the meters? I imagine they complete the circuit.

 

[destructure00]

PowerWalls were installed today. Theres still two meters that need to be installed one for the Powerwalls and one for the solar panels. I see the Service Main disconnect. Can I do off grid testing without the meters? I imagine they complete the circuit.

You need two sets of these in order to test without the meters installed. I don't think the city or utility would look too kindly on things if they showed up for inspection and/or meter install and saw these in place, so keep that in mind.

https://www.amazon.com/Talon-ECJS-Branded-Product/dp/B07G9MP9X7

 

[charlesj]

PowerWalls were installed today. Theres still two meters that need to be installed one for the Powerwalls and one for the solar panels. I see the Service Main disconnect. Can I do off grid testing without the meters? I imagine they complete the circuit.

That is curious that you need all those meters. Is one the main meter or is that meter number 3?
Do you have the app on a phone? If so what is it showing? Is your main meter from power company a smart meter bidirectional?
If you have power to the house now try it. Just be careful that the battery is not low to run it dry or to its lower limit.
Should have the battery charge level from the app.

 

[charlesj]

You need two sets of these in order to test without the meters installed. I don't think the city or utility would look too kindly on things if they showed up for inspection and/or meter install and saw these in place, so keep that in mind.

https://www.amazon.com/Talon-ECJS-Branded-Product/dp/B07G9MP9X7

Do you have those two extra meters as well in AZ?

 

[destructure00]

Do you have those two extra meters as well in AZ?

Yes. 3 total, one primary, one mono-directional solar production, and one bi-directional battery production.

 

[BLRR]

Yes. 3 total, one primary, one mono-directional solar production, and one bi-directional battery production.

View attachment 586041

That is what my set up looks like, however I still need the meters installed on the battery production and solar production. My original meter is still there and it is not bi-directional.

 

[destructure00]

Storm Watch due to red flag warning. Love charging from the grid Off-peak, more solar to sell back tomorrow

 

[destructure00]

Another big thank you to @Darwin for the Hubitat version of Powerwall Manager. Along with my mode changes at 3 and 8pm, I am also toggling Storm Watch to avoid charging from the grid during peak periods and ruining my goal to zero out my demand. This worked perfectly yesterday...nothing used during peak even though Storm Watch was active all day, and as soon as Hubitat switched the PWs back to Backup Only mode at 8pm and toggled Storm Watch back on, the batteries charged back up from grid power. Perfection.

 

[charlesj]

Yes. 3 total, one primary, one mono-directional solar production, and one bi-directional battery production.

View attachment 586041

Thanks. My son will have those and we are both wondering why have those two meters, Tesla required or AZ required.

ps, was that main utility company meter and panel mounted on top of stucco wall originally or in wall and a redo when solar and battery was installed and mounted on wall. Looks good.

 

[BrettS]

Thanks. My son will have those and we are both wondering why have those two meters, Tesla required or AZ required.

It’s definitely not a tesla requirement. It’s likely a utility company requirement (which may be coming from state regulations, so it could be an AZ requirement)

 

[destructure00]

was that main utility company meter and panel mounted on top of stucco wall originally or in wall and a redo when solar and battery was installed and mounted on wall. Looks good.

The main panel with meter was original with the house. Everything else was added on with the solar + PW.

 

[Shawzzzzzz]

Another big thank you to @Darwin for the Hubitat version of Powerwall Manager. Along with my mode changes at 3 and 8pm, I am also toggling Storm Watch to avoid charging from the grid during peak periods and ruining my goal to zero out my demand. This worked perfectly yesterday...nothing used during peak even though Storm Watch was active all day, and as soon as Hubitat switched the PWs back to Backup Only mode at 8pm and toggled Storm Watch back on, the batteries charged back up from grid power. Perfection.

View attachment 586338

I got my meters and PTO from APStoday. Loving this system. Im interested is this!!! Can you provide more details?

 

[destructure00]

I got my meters and PTO from APStoday. Loving this system. Im interested is this!!! Can you provide more details?

It's a custom app that @Darwin created to run on either SmartThings or Hubitat smart home hubs. Do you have either of those?

I found the Time Based modes don't operate quite the way I want...they don't seem to be designed for plans with flat solar export rates and demand charges (I am on Saver Choice Max plan with APS). So I toggle back and forth between Backup Only mode (with Storm Watch enabled) to prioritize charging the powerwalls during off-peak periods, and Self-Powered (with Storm Watch disabled) to avoid pulling from the grid during peak periods with demand charges. This is scheduled and automatically executed using the built-in Rule Machine app on my Hubitat hub, taking into account weekends and off-peak APS holidays.

Tesla Powerwall Manager app for SmartThings (and Hubitat) Hubs - DarwinsDen.com


In my case, during off-peak periods, I want solar to prioritize charging the batteries first, so they are full when the peak period starts at 3pm. After the batteries are full, solar powers my house, then any excess gets exported. Backup Only mode accomplishes this.

During on-peak periods, I want to pull zero from the grid. So the house runs first off solar, then pulls from the batteries if solar is not enough. If there is excess solar, it will recharge the batteries first, then export whatever's left. Self-Powered mode accomplishes this.

So far it's worked perfectly. During the hottest days here with lots of A/C usage, I am ending the day with around 30% remaining in the PWs. Cooler days like yesterday I ended with 75% remaining. This is with a single A/C unit and 2 PWs.

 

[viperscorpio]

Install completed yesterday! Just waiting on SRP inspection & PTO

 

[charlesj]

Install completed yesterday! Just waiting on SRP inspection & PTO

Is that smaller white box the new Gateway?

 

[BrettS]

Is that smaller white box the new Gateway?

Yes, the gateway 2 is the smaller white box on the right that looks like a mini powerwall

 

[Thai480]

Update: They took the taxes "off" I say that with quotes because they just did a price reduction to eliminate the taxes from the total cost of the system.

So we shouldnt not have been taxed period or shouldnt have been taxed on the powerwall or gateway? They charge me $600 for the tax of my 4.02 system with 1 pw. Iam not sure if that tax was for the system or powerwall.

 

[BLRR]

So we shouldnt not have been taxed period or shouldnt have been taxed on the powerwall or gateway? They charge me $600 for the tax of my 4.02 system with 1 pw. Iam not sure if that tax was for the system or powerwall.

you shouldn't be charged any tax. According to Arizona Revised Statues (ARS) 42-5001 line 20 "20. "Solar energy device" means a system or series of mechanisms that are designed primarily to provide heating, to provide cooling, to produce electrical power, to produce mechanical power, to provide solar daylighting or to provide any combination of the foregoing by means of collecting and transferring solar generated energy into such uses either by active or passive means, including wind generator systems that produce electricity. Solar energy systems may also have the capability of storing solar energy for future use. Passive systems shall clearly be designed as a solar energy device, such as a trombe wall, and not merely as a part of a normal structure, such as a window."

When I talked to my adviser they tried to say it was on the gateway I was being charged tax (I don't believe that, I was being charged more in tax than my father who got the large system and 3 PW, and I got the extra large system with 3 PWs) I was having to pay over $1,500 in taxes so I'm not sure where the discrepancy is especially if youre only being charged $600. I sent this to them and said I would not being paying this and highly recommended them to get their legal team involved. They ended up just discounting the installation of the system to cover the taxes because their system can't take taxes off completely I guess.

 

[Thai480]

you shouldn't be charged any tax. According to Arizona Revised Statues (ARS) 42-5001 line 20 "20. "Solar energy device" means a system or series of mechanisms that are designed primarily to provide heating, to provide cooling, to produce electrical power, to produce mechanical power, to provide solar daylighting or to provide any combination of the foregoing by means of collecting and transferring solar generated energy into such uses either by active or passive means, including wind generator systems that produce electricity. Solar energy systems may also have the capability of storing solar energy for future use. Passive systems shall clearly be designed as a solar energy device, such as a trombe wall, and not merely as a part of a normal structure, such as a window."

When I talked to my adviser they tried to say it was on the gateway I was being charged tax (I don't believe that, I was being charged more in tax than my father who got the large system and 3 PW, and I got the extra large system with 3 PWs) I was having to pay over $1,500 in taxes so I'm not sure where the discrepancy is especially if youre only being charged $600. I sent this to them and said I would not being paying this and highly recommended them to get their legal team involved. They ended up just discounting the installation of the system to cover the taxes because their system can't take taxes off completely I guess.

Thanks for an awesome reply, i will have to talk to my advisor about this.