I agree that it's people from the left and right attacking Elon and Tesla. But I don't think it's simply because they are disrupters.
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We’ve all heard the Apple analogy. To compare directly would be arrogant. I do love this article however that tells an ugly story after Jobs came back and the hell that was the launch of iPhone: The Untold Story: How the iPhone Blew Up the Wireless Industry
I've posted this on TeslaWeekly, Elon Musk: A Call for Restraint, but will also post it here.
Elon has strengths and weaknesses, like we all do.
Elon’s strengths are that he is able to see how to achieve big and audacious goals and take the necessary risks to get there. He’s not afraid of taking big risks as long as they are reasonable risks and the goals are achievable and worthwhile. He does this better than almost anyone on the planet.
A lot of people when they reach a certain status (ie., with wealth, or company, etc), they tend to want to preserve what they have, and that becomes a main motivating factor in decisions they make.
It’s rare to find someone who leads a large company (ie., in the tens of billions of dollars market cap) or has great wealth (ie, billions of dollars), and who is able to not have preservation as a main or at least one of the main factors in decision-making. Elon is unique in this regard, and I think it will serve him well in the future as it has in the past.
When a company reaches a certain size, (ie., tens of billions of dollars in market cap), investors like to see a certain amount of reasonable stability, and this also entails the behavior or the CEO. Imagine if Bezos or Zuckerberg got into continuous Twitter spats with trolls. Or if they smoked weed on TV/Youtube. This doesn’t instill confidence. Rather, the opposite. Most CEOs are able to understand and appreciate this dynamic. A rare few don’t, and most of them don’t last.
Elon values his freedom and the ability for him to express himself however he wishes on Twitter, but also to be honest and forthright in interviews as well. This shows good intent. But for him to smoke weed on Joe Rogan’s show in front of millions, this lacks discernment and the awareness that hundreds of thousands of his shareholders and employees and contractors are relying on him to be their leader - and a leader who instills confidence, stability, and trust.
For those shareholders, employees, contractors, suppliers, and others who are disappointed in Elon’s smoking weed on Joe Rogan’s show, I share that disappointment. Elon should do better. Those counting on him deserve it, and Tesla’s mission is so critical everyone at Tesla deserves better.
Regarding Elon’s pedo accusations, I understand that his is a sensitive issue especially with Elon’s family history (ie., his father having a child with his stepdaughter), but Elon needs to use more discernment here. If he has clear evidence against the person, he ought to hand that over to media and get it out there. If he doesn’t, then he needs to move on. Again, hundreds of thousands of people are relying on Elon to be their leader, and they need a leader who will not loosely accuse without evidence, but one if he is inclined to accuse will do so appropriately and with ample evidence.
Lastly, it’s clear that Elon appreciates the power of long, hardworking hours… or what he calls high energy. However, working too long hours can have adverse affects on one’s health and relationships, and that’s a very high cost. Further, it can leads to a multitude of mistakes and mishaps. Thus, excessive work expectations require some restraint, not only toward himself, but especially to those who he’s working with. If this isn’t controlled, it could backfire and lead to unnecessary turmoil, turnover, and low morale.
Today’s stock price is lower than what it was 4 years ago. And the blame need not go out to short sellers, the media, or big oil. Rather, Elon and Tesla need to look introspectively, and control what they can control. What one tweets can be controlled. What one says and does can be controlled. And it ought to be.
Elon has strengths and weaknesses, like we all do.
Elon’s strengths are that he is able to see how to achieve big and audacious goals and take the necessary risks to get there. He’s not afraid of taking big risks as long as they are reasonable risks and the goals are achievable and worthwhile. He does this better than almost anyone on the planet.
A lot of people when they reach a certain status (ie., with wealth, or company, etc), they tend to want to preserve what they have, and that becomes a main motivating factor in decisions they make.
It’s rare to find someone who leads a large company (ie., in the tens of billions of dollars market cap) or has great wealth (ie, billions of dollars), and who is able to not have preservation as a main or at least one of the main factors in decision-making. Elon is unique in this regard, and I think it will serve him well in the future as it has in the past.
When a company reaches a certain size, (ie., tens of billions of dollars in market cap), investors like to see a certain amount of reasonable stability, and this also entails the behavior or the CEO. Imagine if Bezos or Zuckerberg got into continuous Twitter spats with trolls. Or if they smoked weed on TV/Youtube. This doesn’t instill confidence. Rather, the opposite. Most CEOs are able to understand and appreciate this dynamic. A rare few don’t, and most of them don’t last.
Elon values his freedom and the ability for him to express himself however he wishes on Twitter, but also to be honest and forthright in interviews as well. This shows good intent. But for him to smoke weed on Joe Rogan’s show in front of millions, this lacks discernment and the awareness that hundreds of thousands of his shareholders and employees and contractors are relying on him to be their leader - and a leader who instills confidence, stability, and trust.
For those shareholders, employees, contractors, suppliers, and others who are disappointed in Elon’s smoking weed on Joe Rogan’s show, I share that disappointment. Elon should do better. Those counting on him deserve it, and Tesla’s mission is so critical everyone at Tesla deserves better.
Regarding Elon’s pedo accusations, I understand that his is a sensitive issue especially with Elon’s family history (ie., his father having a child with his stepdaughter), but Elon needs to use more discernment here. If he has clear evidence against the person, he ought to hand that over to media and get it out there. If he doesn’t, then he needs to move on. Again, hundreds of thousands of people are relying on Elon to be their leader, and they need a leader who will not loosely accuse without evidence, but one if he is inclined to accuse will do so appropriately and with ample evidence.
Lastly, it’s clear that Elon appreciates the power of long, hardworking hours… or what he calls high energy. However, working too long hours can have adverse affects on one’s health and relationships, and that’s a very high cost. Further, it can leads to a multitude of mistakes and mishaps. Thus, excessive work expectations require some restraint, not only toward himself, but especially to those who he’s working with. If this isn’t controlled, it could backfire and lead to unnecessary turmoil, turnover, and low morale.
Today’s stock price is lower than what it was 4 years ago. And the blame need not go out to short sellers, the media, or big oil. Rather, Elon and Tesla need to look introspectively, and control what they can control. What one tweets can be controlled. What one says and does can be controlled. And it ought to be.
Gotta respectively disagree on that when there are more FUD headlines this morning on him taking one puff of weed on an interview and calling him out of control vs. reporting on August Model 3 sales numbers. It's beyond ridiculous.
Sometimes you've got to call it for what it is though. FUD and negative propaganda is real. I'm not denying that. However, the bigger issue right now is the mistakes Elon is making that is really hurting Tesla/TSLA.
Elon needs to understand that everything he says and does can and will be used against him. This comes along with the territory of being a high-profile leaders of a large public company who likes to be in the spotlight. If he's going to choose to be in the spotlight with his tweets and interviews, then he needs to accept that he will be held at a much higher standard. Thus, smoking weed on Joe Rogan's show is a complete no, no. There's no upside to that. It's just inviting the media and masses to criticize and jump against him.
Interesting....well I would love to find out who was the one to take a screenshot of Elon smoking and deciding to create that as "news" when there were so many other wonderful things talked about in those 2 and half hours. He can't sensor everything little thing he does.....how about headlines promoting Elon's love for humanity and wanting to make the future a brighter place coupled with the August Model 3 numbers as proof for his feelings?.........it's the media 100%
Although I am not as eloquent as Dave, I value this thread the most as the other threads are just cancer at this point. So if Dave doesn't mind, I'd like to add onto his thoughts.
1) Elon is not a terrible manager- Does he have his quirks? Yes. Would I want to work for him personally? Hell no. But people who make this argument ignore a few things. Just looking at SpaceX (which Elon took over from the start), the company has been remarkably successful since 2009 and beyond. There, Elon built the right leadership team (Gwynne, Tom, Hans, etc.), and has carried on revolutionizing the industry. Elon's clearly not opposed to having a COO, he just needs to find the right one. That brings me to my second point.
2) Elon is really only taken the steering wheel himself at Tesla for the last half year- What do I mean by that? Looking at all the evidence, it was clear that Elon was solely focused on engineering and design, and left the production and production engineering to Doug Field. See Tweet exhibit 1. In 6 months, we have gone from 8000 cars per quarter, to 4,500 (conservative) cars per week. We need to give him credit for that exponential progress (most of us, including the bulls, thought would be incredibly difficult or somewhat improbable.
3) What I hypothesized happened- Given those two facts, as well as the evidence that I've gathered, I'll surmise what I think happened in the last year or two. For most of 2017, Elon focused his attention onto SpaceX. SpaceX was coming off a second explosion of the Falcon 9, the Falcon Heavy had been delayed for years, Tesla's stock price was soaring and Model X was ramping, and Model 3 looked good on powerpoint. All the evidence pointed to focusing on SpaceX, and Tesla would take care of itself. What Elon underestimated was how unfit Tesla was. Tesla had gone on a huge hiring spree, and was no longer the lean company focused on manufacturing and product design, but rather a large bloated corporation with lots of middle management. Even worse, many executives (i.e. Doug Field) are "yes men" to Elon, leading to a focus on over automation.
Through the end of 2017 and the beginning of 2018, Elon still had trust in his direct lieutenants, and was still focusing more time on the design of the Falcon Heavy. Slowly, he realized that he not only had the wrong team in place, but needed to take control personally. He downsized the company, focused in on manufacturing and production, and we are now profitable as a corporation. And objectively, the results have been astounding. We've gone from an existential risk to being worried about if the delivery centers will be able to handle the flood of cars. That's a problem we dreamed of having just six months ago.
4) Why we should be optimistic-
- Although the stock price is much lower today than the highs we hit a year ago, the company's in much better shape. Despite the FUD, there is no existential risk to the company anymore. Buffet always says be greedy when others are fearful, and fearful when others are greedy. With production non-existent before, the stock was abnormally greedy. Today, with production at clear disruption levels, the stock is abnormally fearful.
- Elon is making tremendous progress. Within the last six months we went from losing money to being profitable (KNOCK ON WOOD). He's not someone people with thin skin want to work for, but his results speak for themselves. Given his focus at Tesla is getting us to sustained profitability, and continuing to grow revenues at 50%, I feel confident in those things happening. When Elon puts his mind to something, he usually gets it.
- Elon will build the right leadership team eventually. Elon needs to find his Gwynne. We shouldn't rush Tesla to hire a COO. Elon is shaking Tesla up because the old Tesla was not great (good but not great), and executive turnover is going to be the norm. A necessary step to finding the right fit is find/push out the wrong fit. That's what we are going through today.
- DaveT is right on the public representation part. I wish Elon would STFU and stop tweeting and portray the image of a polished CEO, but a Polished CEO would not bring us SpaceX and Tesla. If he could be polished and let the fundamentals talk, that would be the best situation. But option 1B of an unrestrained Elon isn't bad.
Exhibit 1: Elon Musk on Twitter
1) Elon is not a terrible manager- Does he have his quirks? Yes. Would I want to work for him personally? Hell no. But people who make this argument ignore a few things. Just looking at SpaceX (which Elon took over from the start), the company has been remarkably successful since 2009 and beyond. There, Elon built the right leadership team (Gwynne, Tom, Hans, etc.), and has carried on revolutionizing the industry. Elon's clearly not opposed to having a COO, he just needs to find the right one. That brings me to my second point.
2) Elon is really only taken the steering wheel himself at Tesla for the last half year- What do I mean by that? Looking at all the evidence, it was clear that Elon was solely focused on engineering and design, and left the production and production engineering to Doug Field. See Tweet exhibit 1. In 6 months, we have gone from 8000 cars per quarter, to 4,500 (conservative) cars per week. We need to give him credit for that exponential progress (most of us, including the bulls, thought would be incredibly difficult or somewhat improbable.
3) What I hypothesized happened- Given those two facts, as well as the evidence that I've gathered, I'll surmise what I think happened in the last year or two. For most of 2017, Elon focused his attention onto SpaceX. SpaceX was coming off a second explosion of the Falcon 9, the Falcon Heavy had been delayed for years, Tesla's stock price was soaring and Model X was ramping, and Model 3 looked good on powerpoint. All the evidence pointed to focusing on SpaceX, and Tesla would take care of itself. What Elon underestimated was how unfit Tesla was. Tesla had gone on a huge hiring spree, and was no longer the lean company focused on manufacturing and product design, but rather a large bloated corporation with lots of middle management. Even worse, many executives (i.e. Doug Field) are "yes men" to Elon, leading to a focus on over automation.
Through the end of 2017 and the beginning of 2018, Elon still had trust in his direct lieutenants, and was still focusing more time on the design of the Falcon Heavy. Slowly, he realized that he not only had the wrong team in place, but needed to take control personally. He downsized the company, focused in on manufacturing and production, and we are now profitable as a corporation. And objectively, the results have been astounding. We've gone from an existential risk to being worried about if the delivery centers will be able to handle the flood of cars. That's a problem we dreamed of having just six months ago.
4) Why we should be optimistic-
- Although the stock price is much lower today than the highs we hit a year ago, the company's in much better shape. Despite the FUD, there is no existential risk to the company anymore. Buffet always says be greedy when others are fearful, and fearful when others are greedy. With production non-existent before, the stock was abnormally greedy. Today, with production at clear disruption levels, the stock is abnormally fearful.
- Elon is making tremendous progress. Within the last six months we went from losing money to being profitable (KNOCK ON WOOD). He's not someone people with thin skin want to work for, but his results speak for themselves. Given his focus at Tesla is getting us to sustained profitability, and continuing to grow revenues at 50%, I feel confident in those things happening. When Elon puts his mind to something, he usually gets it.
- Elon will build the right leadership team eventually. Elon needs to find his Gwynne. We shouldn't rush Tesla to hire a COO. Elon is shaking Tesla up because the old Tesla was not great (good but not great), and executive turnover is going to be the norm. A necessary step to finding the right fit is find/push out the wrong fit. That's what we are going through today.
- DaveT is right on the public representation part. I wish Elon would STFU and stop tweeting and portray the image of a polished CEO, but a Polished CEO would not bring us SpaceX and Tesla. If he could be polished and let the fundamentals talk, that would be the best situation. But option 1B of an unrestrained Elon isn't bad.
Exhibit 1: Elon Musk on Twitter
If Zuckerberg smoked weed on a TV/YT show, trust me... it would be everywhere. And it wouldn't be portrayed in a positive light (that's an understatement). Would you blame the media? Personally, I would blame Zuck for being so naive as to smoke weed on a show and to think nobody would care. And if continued to do antics like this... well...
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I don't get it....it must be the older generation freaking out about taking one puff because it has seemed to me that over the past several years most of the population has relaxed on pot smoking.....well, except for Sessions.....
Thanks for chiming in. The biggest redeeming factor for Elon is that the Model 3 is a fantastic car, much better than anything out there. And fundamentally, that should drive demand and revenue, and Tesla should do well.
However, there's another side to things. For someone to buy a product, there's a level of trust that's usually required, especially for more expensive items. This is why someone might pay more for jewelry from a place they know and trust vs a no-name store. In a similar way, people buy Tesla's products not just because they are good products, but also because there's a trust that's been established between that person and Tesla as a company. The person sees lots of Teslas on the road and over they years they've been decently reliable, and the owners are enthusiastic, and the company looks like it's going to be around for a long time, etc. People are also drawn to certain values and attributes that the company holds and promotes (ie., Toyota for quality, reliability). Over the years, Elon has done a lot to help Tesla and the trust that people have in the company. His efforts toward fighting climate change and getting the world off of fossil fuels is appreciated by many, as well as his sacrifice and transparency. However, in the past year Elon is also turning off a lot of people from Tesla and doing so needlessly. This is clearly evident from the various people I've talked to and observed. Also even on TMC, you will notice an increasingly number of Elon's super-fans now retreating and having doubts about him. It's come to a point where one might start to wonder if you take only his actions in 2018 and evaluate them, one can ask the question of overall has Elon helped establish more trust in Tesla or helped establish less trust in Tesla in 2018? Prior to this year, this would be a silly question to ask because it was obvious that Elon helped establish more trust in Tesla. However, late in 2018 this question is now murky. And you'll find people on both sides of the answer. This was probably unimaginable just a year ago. One also starts to wonder, where the board of directors is in all of this. Is it even possible for Elon to show restraint when it's likely that he doesn't see the connection between his "unrestrained" actions and damage to Tesla as a company. These are really serious questions, and I think every TSLA investor ought to think about this as it's part of the risk profile of holding TSLA. Just like the potential of TSLA is real and exciting, the risks are real as well. To ignore either of them completely wouldn't be wise.
If you're a high-profile billionaire of a prominent public company, you've got to choose your battles wisely. No point in Zuck smoking weed in front of millions, and during an interview. Nothing to gain. Lots to lose. Most CEOs understand this dynamic.
It doesn't matter per se if smoking pot is right or not. It's that it's controversial and a heated topic, with people on both sides.
It's as if Elon wore a MAGA t-shirt during the Rogan interview. Nothing to gain, lots to lose. Therefore, you just don't do it. Even if that shirt is your favorite at home to wear.
Here’s what I texted a few friends yesterday prior to the Joe Rogan interview, “Personally I don’t think Elon should do these type of interviews. I think Warren Buffett is smart in that he always uses Becky Quick as the interviewers. They have respect and rapport with each other and that makes all the difference. Elon should just pick someone like Becky Quick and do all his interviews with that one person. I just hope he [Joe Rogan] doesn’t ask Elon about LSD/acid and drugs. Everything Elon says can and will be used against him.”
Joe Rogan doesn’t have Elon or Tesla’s best interests at stake. Joe cares about his show, and whatever it takes to make his show interesting. When Joe offers Elon a blunt, Joe has no regard to how this could hurt Elon or Tesla. Joe doesn’t care. That’s why Elon shouldn’t be doing interviews with these kinds of folks. Elon needs some help and he needs the right environment for him to do well in interviews. And I think the best environment is being interviewed by someone Elon (and the Tesla community) trusts and respects. Someone who is also looking out for Elon and Tesla. They won’t ask or do things that will trap or enduce Elon to say or do things that could be hurtful to the greater Tesla community (shareholders, employees, owners, etc).
Just like Warren Buffet has always had his favorite person to be interviewed by, Elon needs his as well. And like Buffett, it should be a relationship of trust and respect. And I’d love to see Elon commit to frequent interviews with this person. It would be great for everyone.
Joe Rogan doesn’t have Elon or Tesla’s best interests at stake. Joe cares about his show, and whatever it takes to make his show interesting. When Joe offers Elon a blunt, Joe has no regard to how this could hurt Elon or Tesla. Joe doesn’t care. That’s why Elon shouldn’t be doing interviews with these kinds of folks. Elon needs some help and he needs the right environment for him to do well in interviews. And I think the best environment is being interviewed by someone Elon (and the Tesla community) trusts and respects. Someone who is also looking out for Elon and Tesla. They won’t ask or do things that will trap or enduce Elon to say or do things that could be hurtful to the greater Tesla community (shareholders, employees, owners, etc).
Just like Warren Buffet has always had his favorite person to be interviewed by, Elon needs his as well. And like Buffett, it should be a relationship of trust and respect. And I’d love to see Elon commit to frequent interviews with this person. It would be great for everyone.
I am *not* confident that Musk will build the right leadership team. I actually think Gaby Toledano was probably the right HR person, but she resigned... possibly because it was impossible to do her job with Musk as her boss. I don't think he *understands* which abilities he's missing, so I don't think he understands what needs to get. He's excellent with production and design and cost engineering.
He's been burning out the execs he wants to keep. This is not good.
The worst Tesla problems are all communication-related and they're problems which only crop up when your company gets beyond a certain size, so they probably never showed up at SpaceX. You can't handle communications on a "just call people up on their cellphones basis" in a company the size of Tesla, but that's what they've been trying to do. You actually need people who do nothing but sort, prioritize, and dispatch messages, and they have to be *really really smart*.
The company's still gonna make a lot of money, so the current price situation is absurdly low. But this is a long-run issue.
Can't argue with you. It does need to be a factor. I do think stress is what is causing it. Elon's always been autistic. You add in the stress and it gets worse. Once the stress dies down a bit he'll be a lot better.
Marquess Brownlee and Gali Russell would be sufficient.
Well we finally get some good news at the end of brutal week.
Jerome Guillen has been promoted to President of Automotive for Tesla. I’m assuming this means he’s in charge of production, suppliers, engineers, sales, service, etc.
I think this is a great move for Tesla. Jerome is a proven veteran of Tesla. He was the Model S program manager when it launched and ramped. And he also was the previous head of Sales and Service. And also, after a leave of absence, he came back to head the Tesla Semi program.
I’ve met and observed Jerome at a Tesla event a while back, and he striked me as highly motivated, well-organized, and very competent. Obviously every person has their strengths and weaknesses, but I think his strengths will suit him well in his new role.
Jerome has his work cut out for him. He’ll need to oversee the Model 3 ramp, ongoing and worldwide. And then oversee the development and launch of the Model Y, pickup truck, Semi truck and the Roadster. Not only that, he’ll need to be expanding delivery logistics, service centers, and also improving internal communications and other issues.
Most crucially, Jerome will need to navigate his relationship with Elon as they partner for a better Tesla. I’m optimistic that Jerome will be able to do so, especially considering he’s worked with Elon for many years and knows the challenges.
Jerome Guillen has been promoted to President of Automotive for Tesla. I’m assuming this means he’s in charge of production, suppliers, engineers, sales, service, etc.
I think this is a great move for Tesla. Jerome is a proven veteran of Tesla. He was the Model S program manager when it launched and ramped. And he also was the previous head of Sales and Service. And also, after a leave of absence, he came back to head the Tesla Semi program.
I’ve met and observed Jerome at a Tesla event a while back, and he striked me as highly motivated, well-organized, and very competent. Obviously every person has their strengths and weaknesses, but I think his strengths will suit him well in his new role.
Jerome has his work cut out for him. He’ll need to oversee the Model 3 ramp, ongoing and worldwide. And then oversee the development and launch of the Model Y, pickup truck, Semi truck and the Roadster. Not only that, he’ll need to be expanding delivery logistics, service centers, and also improving internal communications and other issues.
Most crucially, Jerome will need to navigate his relationship with Elon as they partner for a better Tesla. I’m optimistic that Jerome will be able to do so, especially considering he’s worked with Elon for many years and knows the challenges.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Except they are all in fact responsible for much of the negativity against Tesla and Elon, so not only have they directly negatively affected the stock price they have also negatively affected Elon himself. Elon does not operate in a vacuum.
Jerome's new role is a huge deal. I think it's bigger news than if Tesla hired a COO.
As President of Automotive, it appears that Jerome will be in charge of most of Tesla, including engineering.
As President of Automotive, it appears that Jerome will be in charge of most of Tesla, including engineering.
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