Audi etron in person, disappointing?

[TeeEmCee]

When caluculating "same money" also consider that the X is much more car. Think the Model Y will be closer in specs to the eTron.

If you own a small profitable business, the Section 179 benefits will apply to the X. Do not believe the eTron qualifies. Makes the Model X a run-away better value.

Believe the X will have much better resale than the already heavily discounted eTron.

After just about 24 hours of having possession of one, I can opine that the Model X is a lot less car than the eTron. My decently loaded Prestige is 10K less than the cheapest Model X, has an exceptional interior vs the Tesla, with bourgeois features like massage, ventilation etc. proper doors that actually close, as opposed to the endless misalignment I saw and experienced with a lot of Teslas. It has LIDAR so it doesn't crash into semis, head-up display, real buttons and levers for core functions (although not enough of them, i.m.o.), it's actually painted all over and doesn't have ghosting winshieds like every X I drove at night so far. It has matrix headlights that light up sources of infrared like deer, 360 deg camera so I can make sure I'm not clipping a bike or something when I pull all cars in etc.

Tesla does a few things very well and they do indeed spank Audi and everyone else when it comes to those (range and some of the software). They are no longer the only game in town and this position they earned is theirs to lose.

 

[wooter]

I've been going through your history on this website, and although you registered in 2015, you only started posting last year and it's been an avalanche of negative posts.

I'm not sure which car you are talking about in your last post, but in Audi documentation it's not called LIDAR, and its function is used as a radar just like Tesla uses it for EAB. And as we know, EAB currently is limited by the ability of software to recognise stopped vehicles from other non-moving objects like the rest of the world around us. It's the same handicap Tesla has; your e-tron will just as enthusiastically drive into the rear of a stopped truck as any Tesla at the moment.

Oh, and matrix lights don't light up sources of infrared because that would be stupid: oncoming cars are a source of infrared too.

 

[KimVerska]

I'll probably opt for the E-Tron in a few years.

I think it has a large number of advantages over the Model Y, and Model X.

Better suspension
Better UI
Better Seats
360 surrounds view (where you can see curbs and stuff)
Available Heads up Display

The main advantage Tesla has is the Supercharger network. The Electrify America network still leaves a lot to be desired.

Huh, so you want to pay $30K for better seats and UI? Not being snarky -- just hard for me to believe that people have such different preferences.

 

[john85775]

After just about 24 hours of having possession of one, I can opine that the Model X is a lot less car than the eTron. My decently loaded Prestige is 10K less than the cheapest Model X, has an exceptional interior vs the Tesla, with bourgeois features like massage, ventilation etc. proper doors that actually close, as opposed to the endless misalignment I saw and experienced with a lot of Teslas. It has LIDAR so it doesn't crash into semis, head-up display, real buttons and levers for core functions (although not enough of them, i.m.o.), it's actually painted all over and doesn't have ghosting winshieds like every X I drove at night so far. It has matrix headlights that light up sources of infrared like deer, 360 deg camera so I can make sure I'm not clipping a bike or something when I pull all cars in etc.

Tesla does a few things very well and they do indeed spank Audi and everyone else when it comes to those (range and some of the software). They are no longer the only game in town and this position they earned is theirs to lose.

Congrats on the new ride.

I thought night vision was only on the First Edition of the e-tron?

Audi Technology Portal - Night vision assistant

 

[wooter]

The e-tron has better UI?!

And to be honest, the seats in my Model X are great! I love them and love that they tilt as a seat. I like them more than the Model 3 seats.

 

[Glamisduner]

I already saw someone driving one on the way to work, who just had to cut in front of my performance 3 to show me how fast he was lol.

Not enough range for me to consider one, or enough performance for the price, but otherwise it looks nice. Do they get over the air updates to continually improve the car? Looking forward to features like advanced summon coming too, does audi have those sorts of things? I guess there a market if you don't want the range or performance or updates or autopilot.

I was a huge fan of android auto, but I much prefer the tesla system in general, other than for bluetooth streaming. But having to plug in my phone to use the maps while the car is parked is really annoying and my experience is that sometimes I have to sit there and fiddle with it to get it working. It's a cool feature, but not quite as good as tesla's giant map and voice commands as far as ease of use.

 

[TeeEmCee]

I've been going through your history on this website, and although you registered in 2015, you only started posting last year and it's been an avalanche of negative posts.

I'm not sure which car you are talking about in your last post, but in Audi documentation it's not called LIDAR, and its function is used as a radar just like Tesla uses it for EAB. And as we know, EAB currently is limited by the ability of software to recognise stopped vehicles from other non-moving objects like the rest of the world around us. It's the same handicap Tesla has; your e-tron will just as enthusiastically drive into the rear of a stopped truck as any Tesla at the moment.

Oh, and matrix lights don't light up sources of infrared because that would be stupid: oncoming cars are a source of infrared too.

So, you read my comment and figured it warrants a purity test. And then found that I failed said purity test because, as I mentioned in a number of those old posts, I don’t worship sufficiently. If you really have nothing better to do other than read my old posts, take the blinders off and read them again. You will find an interested geek, often times expressing disbelief at Tesla’s ability to turn victory into defeat, mostly via the atrocious behavior and performance of the service organization.

On the headlights bit, oncoming cars project vastly more in the visible spectrum than in IR. For a system with cameras designed to recognize both, it’s pretty trivial to classify them based on that. Deer don’t emit much in the visible spectrum. I know cause I came close to hitting two of them tonight and another one last night.

That sensor under the etron’s grille is a laser ranging unit ... i.e. lidar. It’s not the spin-around-and-map-the-surroundings type, just a simple thing that measures how fast you’re re approaching that stopped vehicle (that kind of stopped vehicle that every HW 2.0 S/X loaner I had would have plowed straight into, at full speed). It’s also said to have five radar sensors, six cameras and twelve ultrasound sensors. And no, it’s not perfect, just smoother, more conservative and less dangerous than Tesla’s implementation. Lane keep, on the other hand, is just as *sugar* as in the Tesla, maybe even more so in some scenarios.

 

[TeeEmCee]

I already saw someone driving one on the way to work, who just had to cut in front of my performance 3 to show me how fast he was lol.

Not enough range for me to consider one, or enough performance for the price, but otherwise it looks nice. Do they get over the air updates to continually improve the car? Looking forward to features like advanced summon coming too, does audi have those sorts of things? I guess there a market if you don't want the range or performance or updates or autopilot.

It’s a very sedate driver, i.m.o., with none of the closet hooligan personality of a Tesla. It’s, strangely, a lot like my diesel. Lots of torque, swelling elegantly, but without the initial whack of a Tesla. Absolutely plenty of performance for that type of vehicle, but delivered very differently. I suspect that’s what they think the target market wants and what they expect to keep those shafts and gears from chewing themselves up, like they do in so many Model Xs.

 

[Glamisduner]

So, you read my comment and figured it warrants a purity test. And then found that I failed said purity test because, as I mentioned in a number of those old posts, I don’t worship sufficiently. If you really have nothing better to do other than read my old posts, take the blinders off and read them again. You will find an interested geek, often times expressing disbelief at Tesla’s ability to turn victory into defeat, mostly via the atrocious behavior and performance of the service organization.

On the headlights bit, oncoming cars project vastly more in the visible spectrum than in IR. For a system with cameras designed to recognize both, it’s pretty trivial to classify them based on that. Deer don’t emit much in the visible spectrum. I know cause I came close to hitting two of them tonight and another one last night.

That sensor under the etron’s grille is a laser ranging unit ... i.e. lidar. It’s not the spin-around-and-map-the-surroundings type, just a simple thing that measures how fast you’re re approaching that stopped vehicle (that kind of stopped vehicle that every HW 2.0 S/X loaner I had would have plowed straight into, at full speed). It’s also said to have five radar sensors, six cameras and twelve ultrasound sensors. And no, it’s not perfect, just smoother, more conservative and less dangerous than Tesla’s implementation. Lane keep, on the other hand, is just as *sugar* as in the Tesla, maybe even more so in some scenarios.

AP looks way better in this video.

. Plus it keeps improving. I'd miss the center display readout in the 3 though, I no longer like having to look between the steering wheel for information, it creates a dash bump or higher dash, and limits steering-wheel position. I mean the extra display is ok in the X and S, but I wouldn't prefer that to be my primary display. 360 camera and HUD is pretty sweet though, but not enough to give up the range and battery tech. Not to say the audi's batteries are bad I have no idea, but I don't see them being cooled as well as tesla batteries.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I've been going through your history on this website, and although you registered in 2015, you only started posting last year and it's been an avalanche of negative posts.

I'm not sure which car you are talking about in your last post, but in Audi documentation it's not called LIDAR, and its function is used as a radar just like Tesla uses it for EAB. And as we know, EAB currently is limited by the ability of software to recognise stopped vehicles from other non-moving objects like the rest of the world around us. It's the same handicap Tesla has; your e-tron will just as enthusiastically drive into the rear of a stopped truck as any Tesla at the moment.

Oh, and matrix lights don't light up sources of infrared because that would be stupid: oncoming cars are a source of infrared too.

There is a surprising lack of information on the Laser Scanner on the Audi E-Tron. Most reviews don't seem to mention it.

I'd expect the Audi website to go into full detail about it similar to what they do with the A8, but they don't.

Even the media website doesn't mention it.
Audi Newsroom

The only place I can find it is here.
https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/the-audi-e-tron-in-abu-dhabi.../download

But, there is so much conflicting information that it's tough to really tell what's on the car, and what kind of SW upgrades are expected.

 

[tccartier]

I'll probably opt for the E-Tron in a few years.

I think it has a large number of advantages over the Model Y, and Model X.

Better suspension
Better UI
Better Seats
360 surrounds view (where you can see curbs and stuff)
Available Heads up Display

The main advantage Tesla has is the Supercharger network. The Electrify America network still leaves a lot to be desired.

So did the supercharger Network when it started, electrify America coming. It's not going to happen overnight we've gotten to use to immediate material gratification and continuously making better the enemy of best. the solutions are coming. Many are already online have you looked at plugshare lately? I charged at a site done by electrify America last month in Minnesota on a road trip from Arizona.

 

[TeeEmCee]

I already saw someone driving one on the way to work, who just had to cut in front of my performance 3 to show me how fast he was lol.

Not enough range for me to consider one, or enough performance for the price, but otherwise it looks nice. Do they get over the air updates to continually improve the car? Looking forward to features like advanced summon coming too, does audi have those sorts of things? I guess there a market if you don't want the range or performance or updates or autopilot.

I was a huge fan of android auto, but I much prefer the tesla system in general, other than for bluetooth streaming. But having to plug in my phone to use the maps while the car is parked is really annoying and my experience is that sometimes I have to sit there and fiddle with it to get it working. It's a cool feature, but not quite as good as tesla's giant map and voice commands as far as ease of use.

Don’t know about Android Auto, but CarPlay is wireless in this implementation. Plays music, shows waze, can have the other map in the other display, pretty decent.

OTA updates ... negative on that one. The new MMI system is very pretty, quite buggy and less well thought out than Tesla’s system. The hardware is excellent, the software however is ... well ... designed for and approved by Germans, bless them. The various features are good, getting to them can be a PITA.

On the range, in my very limited experience, it does exactly what the EPA says, with AC on the Texas setting and all interior gizmos running. Also, this is on 20 inch, pretty wide wheels, with normal tires, not the eco donuts that came on my LR Model 3, and also inflated at a normal pressure (I think it’s high 30s) rather than the 45 psi cold that they Recommend for the model 3. In normal driving, I think I never got more than 80% of the Model 3’s rated range. I seem to get what the EPA says I should get in the eTron. On the same tires and the same PSI, I think the eTron’s freeway range would come within 60 miles of that of the LR Model 3.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Huh, so you want to pay $30K for better seats and UI? Not being snarky -- just hard for me to believe that people have such different preferences.

The guy in the 28K brand new Mazda3 can make the exact same comment about the Model 3.

 

[TeeEmCee]

AP looks way better in this video.

. Plus it keeps improving. I'd miss the center display readout in the 3 though, I no longer like having to look between the steering wheel for information, it creates a dash bump or higher dash, and limits steering-wheel position. I mean the extra display is ok in the X and S, but I wouldn't prefer that to be my primary display. 360 camera and HUD is pretty sweet though, but not enough to give up the range and battery tech. Not to say the audi's batteries are bad I have no idea, but I don't see them being cooled as well as tesla batteries.

I think the cooling is actually more aggressive than Tesla’s. It’s the motors and the inverters that are less efficient.

I believe the motors are inductive (less efficient), not the permanent magnet variety, which allows them to be decoupled such as to allow gliding. I’m part of the minority that likes the smoothness of gliding and manual control of regeneration. Between regen on the brake and the paddles, it’s exactly what I wanted. To me, it’s much much more comfortable than the mandatory low/high regen in Teslas. I had learned to tolerate that in the Tesla, but never quite liked it.

 

[Glamisduner]

Don’t know about Android Auto, but CarPlay is wireless in this implementation. Plays music, shows waze, can have the other map in the other display, pretty decent.

OTA updates ... negative on that one. The new MMI system is very pretty, quite buggy and less well thought out vs Tesla’s system. The hardware is excellent, the software however is ... well ... designed for and approved by Germans, bless them. The various features are good, getting to them can be a PITA.

On the range, in my very limited experience, it does exactly what the EPA says, with AC on the Texas setting and all interior gizmos running. Also, this is on 20 inch, pretty wide wheels, with normal tires, not the eco donuts that came on my LR Model 3, and also inflated at a normal pressure (I think it’s high 30s) rather than the 45 psi cold that they Recommend for the model 3. In normal driving, I think I never got more than 80% of the Model 3’s rated range. I seem to get what the EPA says I should get in the eTron. On the same tires and the same PSI, I think the eTron’s freeway range would come within 60 miles of that of the LR Model 3.

Interesting claim on the range I'll for sure be watching for more reviews on that one,. I found the tires make a huge difference on the 3's with lighter wheels on mine, but performance tires, I saw a significant hit in range. All seasons were allot better at getting close to rated range, and the etron does have a very large battery but that means the epa rating should be higher than they are advertising?

I think the cooling is actually more aggressive than Tesla’s. It’s the motors and the inverters that are less efficient.

I believe the motors are inductive (less efficient), not the permanent magnet variety, which allows them to be decoupled such as to allow gliding. I’m part of the minority that likes the smoothness of gliding and manual control of regeneration. Between regen on the brake and the paddles, it’s exactly what I wanted. To me, it’s much much more comfortable than the mandatory low/high regen in Teslas. I had learned to tolerate that in the Tesla, but never quite liked it.

I didn't think pouch cells could be cooled as well as teslas design? I think they can be cheaper to produce but leave more uneven cooling? But the car isn't likely putting as much strain on the battery either since it's not pushing the limits? Initial quality has to be better than tesla though.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Congrats on the new ride.

I thought night vision was only on the First Edition of the e-tron?

Audi Technology Portal - Night vision assistant

I was told that it was a feature of the headlights, but you may be right though. Or perhaps the night vision package is just an extra IR illuminator and software, with the IR detection being done by a camera that’s not part of the night vision package. I’ll ask again tomorrow.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Interesting claim on the range I'll for sure be watching for more reviews on that one,. I found the tires make a huge difference on the 3's with lighter wheels on mine, but performance tires, I saw a significant hit in range. All seasons were allot better at getting close to rated range, and the etron does have a very large battery but that means the epa rating should be higher than they are advertising?


I didn't think pouch cells could be cooled as well as teslas design? I think they can be cheaper to produce but leave more uneven cooling? But the car isn't likely putting as much strain on the battery either since it's not pushing the limits? Initial quality has to be better than tesla though.

After the etron’s ride home, all freeway, 70 mph speed limit, no traffic, at 80F or so, the guess-o-meter estimated a total range of just under 240 miles. This estimate was based on the initial 130 miles of driving.

 

[whitex]

Then go rent one of those other cars for a week and see if you'll like em.

I dread the days I have to rent and drive a normal car...

Do you know where I can rent an Etron? I would seriously consider it.

 

[john85775]

@whitex have you test driven one yet?

It’s up to the Audi dealer but you should be able to do an overnight test drive (up to them of course). Now we are getting into the pros-cons of dealerships too

 

[daktari]

I was told that it was a feature of the headlights, but you may be right though. Or perhaps the night vision package is just an extra IR illuminator and software, with the IR detection being done by a camera that’s not part of the night vision package. I’ll ask again tomorrow.

The IR-camera (NightVision) is located within one of the Audi rings in the front. In my car, it will show heat from other cars also (exhaust, tires etc).White=hot, black=cold. Sources classified as a human or animal, will be marked yellow in the Night Vision view in the instrument cluster. Combined with the Matrix LED headlights, these will light up said objects. In Europe, both NV and Matrix LEDs are options sold individually.

I am pretty confident it is a complete sensor, when I try to block it, the object on the screen also comes closer. Radar is behind the "grille" on the left (anatomically speaking.) My daughter is here 5 meters away from the car, waving to the TMC community!