Auto braking by it’s self when nothing is around.

[Longrangeboost]

We don’t have the full self driving style, just the beta that comes with the car. But when we do use it sometimes when there are no cars around us on the freeway the car just brakes hard by it’s self for no apparent reason. Does anyone know if there is a side ware update coming to correct this?

 

[Longrangeboost]

Software update.

 

[DerbyDave]

Unfortunately, phantom braking is one of the big issues. Tesla is having a hard time figuring it out.

 

[Tam]

...Does anyone know if there is a side ware update coming to correct this?...

Yes. Tesla already did more than one year ago.

Phantom brakes have been a problem for all car manufacturers that use radar. It's just a matter of more or less variation. Tesla found a way to solve this problem by getting rid of radar and going for Tesla Vision only for the past more than a year ago.

Interestingly, JJ Ricks has documented more than 70 rides with Waymo and there are no phantom brakes. Waymo uses LIDAR which Tesla doesn't believe in.

Thus, for a foreseeable solution, it's not the software, it's the LIDAR.

 

[DerbyDave]

Tesla Vision Only FSD Beta does not use radar, and cars sold after February 15, 2022, don't even have a radar, and the problem is still extremely prevalent. So radar is not the problem.

 

[Tam]

The problem with the regular radar is low resolution: It can't differentiate between the harmless overpass above and a dangerous tractor-trailer on its side blocking the road. Thus, for safety, you want phantom brakes to clear the harms first before moving on.

If there are not phantom brakes enough, a 2016 fatal accident could happen again.

https://twitter.com/x/status/748625979271045121

There's a new high-resolution radar but I am not sure what's the price. It can differentiate harmful and harmless objects and claim to reduce the phantom brakes to near zero:

But as @DerbyDave said, new Tesla cars now do not use radars so it's not currently the radar problem.

 

[mscott]

Phantom brakes have been a problem for all car manufacturers that use radar. It's just a matter of more or less variation. Tesla found a way to solve this problem by getting rid of radar and going for Tesla Vision only for the past more than a year ago.

While my anecdote is not data, I can say that in 100+K miles my 2015 Model S with AP1 (and therefore radar) has never once had an instance of strong phantom braking. (Mildly slowing at the very worst.) But our 2018 Model 3 did this frequently and on my recent 3,200 mile road trip in my new 2022 MSLR, it hit the brakes *hard* at least a dozen times. (Mostly in Kansas, and always on empty or very nearly empty highway, often at the start of guardrails.)

I also am very annoyed at how long the car takes to speed back up after the car in front slows. It leaves a huge gap that, if left to itself, causes impatient drivers behind me to pass on the right. AP1 didn't do this, either.

Tesla vision is nowhere near as good as the lane keeping of AP1 from nearly 7 years ago.

 

[Tam]

While my anecdote is not data...

What you experienced is consistent with how it works.

Radar is a simple measuring device. It sends out a wave and measures when it receives that back. It's just like a simple measuring tape. You can get a speed instantly.

It's the same principle with LIDAR as well. Instead of using waves, it uses Laser. You can get the data easily.

Tesla Vision requires a brain: A very powerful processor to process all those pixels and translate all those pixels just to get simple data such as speed.

Tesla Vision will be superhuman, but until it gets something like a human brain, this is how we get it today: phantom brakes, going to the wrong lane, collisions...

 

[cmarshack]

I had a 2020 LR+ with Radar and had Phantom Braking issues all the time. Now I have a 2022 (March Build) with no Radar and it does it just as much. Oddly enough, it hits the brakes very hard on HWY 395 with no-one around, straight road, no trees, obstacles and not heading into the sunlight and seemingly in the same place. I will be paying more attention to where, but it has happens at least twice during the drive home. It's a 5 hour drive but can only use AP for about 50% of the drive because speed is limited to 5 mph over most of the way, and I am not driving 60 in a Tesla. So about once every hour kinda sucks...