Autocross- SCCA EV-X Class vs. SS

[dsgerbc]

Sounds like they want us to annoy the locals in AS.

 

[gearchruncher]

Sounds like they want us to annoy the locals in AS.

Interesting point. When EVX PAX was reasonable, it was a great place for the Model 3 to play. Now that they clearly want EVX to be buried, we probably should drop back to stock and figure out how to make a max attack AS car and either mess up AS PAX or force them to analyze the car with all the others.

I can't wait to see what they do with the EV Boxter when it comes out and their heads explode trying to merge the love and precise classing they have for all the Porsche variants with the desire to make EV's uncompetitive.

 

[The Other Dan]

For XA at Nats, 5 out of the 6 EVX entries would have placed between the existing 5th -8th placed finishers in XA.
What would a 10/10ths M3P even look like? 315s? 335s? How much aero? Maybe throw in a LSD?

I guess we'll see what the AZ tour looks like the end of Feb. I may be down there to run that if I can line up a car.

 

[dsgerbc]

For XA at Nats, 5 out of the 6 EVX entries would have placed between the existing 5th -8th placed finishers in XA.
What would a 10/10ths M3P even look like? 315s? 335s? How much aero? Maybe throw in a LSD?

I guess we'll see what the AZ tour looks like the end of Feb. I may be down there to run that if I can line up a car.

They've gutted the XA/B exclusion list tho, so that class might turn out to be heavily modded C8s, NSXs or P-cars...

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

It appears EVX Pax was changed to .834

Still a bit low imo but I’ve just dominated in pax even on 615k tires. I’ve ran ASP on street tires to make it closer. Thinking SSP this year so it’s competitive

 

[gearchruncher]

Still a bit low imo but I’ve just dominated in pax even on 615k tires. I’ve ran ASP on street tires to make it closer. Thinking SSP this year so it’s competitive

Care to share what club you run in and what the competition is like?

At Nationals and the National Tours the EVX legal cars were all on RE71's and could not come close to a SS time, so ither your competition is weak, the courses you run favor a Tesla, or you're a completely next level driver. We'd love to see you at Crows or Nationals to prove how quick a Tesla can be!

I also run against national SS/AS/BS champions in my reigon and there is zero way I can come close to their 2023 PAX times. The places Rick seems to reference where Teslas "dominate" are always a complete alien driver who wins no matter what car they drive, yet when they are in a Gt4 they are a great driver, but in a Tesla it's the car.

 

[gearchruncher]

Oh and as another note, I recently got to drive a completely stock 991.2 (2017) Porsche 911 Carerra S at my local AutoX. Never AutoX'd one before. I didn't beat my Model 3 time, but came in 1.5 seconds slower on a 65 second course. The thing is, the 911 was on 450 TW street tires and the Model 3 was on A052's and a full EV-X suspension. Pretty sure I would have raw timed the Model 3 if they were on the same tires, which also means out-PAXing it as they are only .001 off in PAX.

I also recently drove a stock Boxter GTS 4.0 (AS) on 200TW's and came within 0.4 seconds of my Tesla time on a 55 second course. I only got two runs in the Boxter that I had never driven before. 2024 PAX says I'm a 0.5% faster driver in a Boxter the first time I ever drive it than a M3P.

 

[The Other Dan]

I think it's also clubs where all runs count. I know if all runs counted in my region, I'd consistently place higher than I do.

 

[gearchruncher]

Counting all runs for PAX is OK though. It's supposed to be about how fast the car can be with a perfect driver, so if the car was able to go that fast, it's at least that fast. It's not supposed to be about how fast the driver can learn the car or course.

 

[dsgerbc]

Care to share what club you run in and what the competition is like?

A quick search seems to suggests that he runs with a small club in Northern coastal California. They seem to have a single main autox lot that's on the smaller side, which is located right by the ocean and has a pretty worn asphalt pavement. I'd venture a guess that the average race time ambient temp is under 60F, it's often damp and humid. Basically, grip is at a premium. Which makes it pretty reasonable that an AWD EV could dominate on two-generations-old rubber.

Basically, a far cry away from typical Nationals/Tour conditions. Setting the overall EVX PAX so that the car doesn't slay on small lots with low grip conditions and low-effort layout designs would be suicidal for the class.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Care to share what club you run in and what the competition is like?

At Nationals and the National Tours the EVX legal cars were all on RE71's and could not come close to a SS time, so ither your competition is weak, the courses you run favor a Tesla, or you're a completely next level driver. We'd love to see you at Crows or Nationals to prove how quick a Tesla can be!

I also run against national SS/AS/BS champions in my reigon and there is zero way I can come close to their 2023 PAX times. The places Rick seems to reference where Teslas "dominate" are always a complete alien driver who wins no matter what car they drive, yet when they are in a Gt4 they are a great driver, but in a Tesla it's the car.

Our asphalt is pretty bad so that gives me a bonus w/ awd, I ran at thunder hill auto x once and won SS. Medford and hillclimbs in Oregon is the most I travel usually. Always have top pax in hill climbs but that doesn’t really matter.

 

[The Other Dan]

Our asphalt is pretty bad so that gives me a bonus w/ awd, I ran at thunder hill auto x once and won SS. Medford and hillclimbs in Oregon is the most I travel usually. Always have top pax in hill climbs but that doesn’t really matter.

Come to Crows Landing for National Tour at the end of April.

 

[Conebra]

For those of you who will be running in AS - or are otherwise running stock suspension - what 200TW tires are you considering? I ran the RE-71RSes in 2023 and they're now half-worn and half-slicks as you can see in my last event vid below. I'm not ruling out running the Stones again, but I'd be willing to trade a little peak performance for more longevity. So I was considering the Nankang CR-S V2 (a bit pricey) or good ol' Falken RT-660s (I liked these on my old Mustang when they first came out.)

Note: Nope, I didn't spray the Stones. Thinking I need to start in 2024...

 

[dsgerbc]

For those of you who will be running in AS - or are otherwise running stock suspension - what 200TW tires are you considering? I ran the RE-71RSes in 2023 and they're now half-worn and half-slicks as you can see in my last event vid below. I'm not ruling out running the Stones again, but I'd be willing to trade a little peak performance for more longevity. So I was considering the Nankang CR-S V2 (a bit pricey) or good ol' Falken RT-660s (I liked these on my old Mustang when they first came out.)

Note: Nope, I didn't spray the Stones. Thinking I need to start in 2024...

If no cords are showing, you can probably flip those Stones and get a few more events with just a touch less grip.

My RT660s did not last much more than RE71RS. I'd probably get Conti Force or Kumho V730s if I wanted a long-lasting tire. Be prepared to be 1+ second off pace on a 60 second course.

See here for more options.
Nankang seems more like a track day tire, but maybe in Tampa its slowish pace when cold won't matter as much.

 

[Conebra]

If no cords are showing, you can probably flip those Stones and get a few more events with just a touch less grip.

My RT660s did not last much more than RE71RS. I'd probably get Conti Force or Kumho V730s if I wanted a long-lasting tire. Be prepared to be 1+ second off pace on a 60 second course.

See here for more options.
Nankang seems more like a track day tire, but maybe in Tampa its slowish pace when cold won't matter as much.

Appreciate it. Yeah, unless some deal pops up, I will flip and keep running them.

Regarding the Nankangs, one of our locals started running them on his GT3 and seems happy with them. He continues to be at or near the top of SS. To your point, I'm not running any Nationals events, otherwise I might not be considering them.

 

[Conebra]

Yeah, unless some deal pops up, I will flip and keep running them.

Welp, upon swapping tires for tomorrow's event, I've decided the Stones have only one more event in them. I should have determined to flip them sooner. Lesson learned.
Just placed an order for Falken RT-660s, but I am still interested in hearing what others are running with stock suspension.

 

[dsgerbc]

for tomorrow's event

 

[M3Pdude]

Welp, upon swapping tires for tomorrow's event, I've decided the Stones have only one more event in them. I should have determined to flip them sooner. Lesson learned.
Just placed an order for Falken RT-660s, but I am still interested in hearing what others are running with stock suspension.

We should have traded out all the MPP parts from my car to yours before I sold it. You would be hard to beat in full EVX!

See you at OCCC on your fresh 660s. You are going down!

 

[bigwig]

Welp, upon swapping tires for tomorrow's event, I've decided the Stones have only one more event in them. I should have determined to flip them sooner. Lesson learned.
Just placed an order for Falken RT-660s, but I am still interested in hearing what others are running with stock suspension.

255/35/19? What offset on your wheels? I’m getting a set of 19x9 +30. I am trying to decide between 255/35/19 71RS, 275/30/19 RT-660, and 265/30/19 CR-S.

 

[bigwig]

For XA at Nats, 5 out of the 6 EVX entries would have placed between the existing 5th -8th placed finishers in XA.
What would a 10/10ths M3P even look like? 315s? 335s? How much aero? Maybe throw in a LSD?

I guess we'll see what the AZ tour looks like the end of Feb. I may be down there to run that if I can line up a car.

Did you get a car for Phoenix? I’m registered co-driving a AS Grand Sport. I have a stock 2021 M3P. I don’t expect it will be prepped for Phoenix next month.