Autopilot and Supercharging on a 2013 Model S 60

[scgaskill]

True, DC charger is the big box outside of the car. That said, there is a "DC charge port controller ECU", which is what you change out to get it to make it work with CCS adapter.

But you can take the hard drive out of one PC and put it in another, therefore transferring the Windows license. All good, as long as you don't make a copy and try to run both. Microsoft will re-activate your windows on the new PC if you tell them you changed out the motherboard (which technically you did).


I'd make a call, see what's possible. I know those shops do allow swapping a larger battery to your car, which technically is transferring the battery license too as they have to reprogram your car to show as S85 or S90 for example, which does for example improve your power/acceleration .


Yea, there was one other thought that occurred to me. SC staff today has zero knowledge of old Teslas, and Model S without supercharging are so rate you were probably the very first one they ever saw. Perhaps when they quoted you $12,500 for the Supercharging, they looked up the incorrect update. Tesla very briefly produced S40's, which actually had 60KWh batteries onboard but were actually missing the hardware needed for supercharging. They did sell this upgrade but it costed (IIRC) $8,000 for 60KWh unlock or $10,000 if you wanted unlock with supercharging hardware and enablement capacity. I met a guy once who bought an S40 and paid the full price just because he wanted supercharging. There would not be a 2014 S40, only 2012 and maybe 2013, but current SC workers wouldn't know that.

I see your point, though I gotta tell you early days of Tesla were pretty ad-hoc, they kept records in emails and sticky notes. Around 2020 Tesla realized they were accidentally enabling FSD on cars which were never supposed have had it in the first place - they reverted them but only starting with car made late 2017 or even 2018. You can probably still find threads on this on TMC. It implied pre 2018 they just didn't have records to prove who paid for what. I know I had referral credit dollars, and as funny as it sounds, each time I wanted to use it, I had to forward the SC the email chain which started with my sales person confirming I got the credit and that had emails confirming new referral or when I used it - an email chain ledger. I think technically they still owe me $10 or less of referral money, but I'm not going to bother with it - last time they changed out the 12V battery I just told them to call it even as my referral balance was a few dollars over the invoice after taxes.

True, DC charger is the big box outside of the car. That said, there is a "DC charge port controller ECU", which is what you change out to get it to make it work with CCS adapter.

But you can take the hard drive out of one PC and put it in another, therefore transferring the Windows license. All good, as long as you don't make a copy and try to run both. Microsoft will re-activate your windows on the new PC if you tell them you changed out the motherboard (which technically you did).


I'd make a call, see what's possible. I know those shops do allow swapping a larger battery to your car, which technically is transferring the battery license too as they have to reprogram your car to show as S85 or S90 for example, which does for example improve your power/acceleration .


Yea, there was one other thought that occurred to me. SC staff today has zero knowledge of old Teslas, and Model S without supercharging are so rate you were probably the very first one they ever saw. Perhaps when they quoted you $12,500 for the Supercharging, they looked up the incorrect update. Tesla very briefly produced S40's, which actually had 60KWh batteries onboard but were actually missing the hardware needed for supercharging. They did sell this upgrade but it costed (IIRC) $8,000 for 60KWh unlock or $10,000 if you wanted unlock with supercharging hardware and enablement capacity. I met a guy once who bought an S40 and paid the full price just because he wanted supercharging. There would not be a 2014 S40, only 2012 and maybe 2013, but current SC workers wouldn't know that.

I see your point, though I gotta tell you early days of Tesla were pretty ad-hoc, they kept records in emails and sticky notes. Around 2020 Tesla realized they were accidentally enabling FSD on cars which were never supposed have had it in the first place - they reverted them but only starting with car made late 2017 or even 2018. You can probably still find threads on this on TMC. It implied pre 2018 they just didn't have records to prove who paid for what. I know I had referral credit dollars, and as funny as it sounds, each time I wanted to use it, I had to forward the SC the email chain which started with my sales person confirming I got the credit and that had emails confirming new referral or when I used it - an email chain ledger. I think technically they still owe me $10 or less of referral money, but I'm not going to bother with it - last time they changed out the 12V battery I just told them to call it even as my referral balance was a few dollars over the invoice after taxes.

Yes, the CCS compatible ECU is what is included in the retrofit kit which is why it's $450 vs just the CCS adapter itself which Tesla sells for $250. The mobile Tech installed it, and the Additional Info screen showed CCS Enabled, but it didn't work when I went to an EVgo DC fast charger. Knowing what I think I know now, I believe the "missing piece" was not having the "other DC fast charging" option enabled allowing the DC charger and car to negotiate and do the actual charging.

When I called roadside assistance, they told me that my 40kW battery needed to be upgraded to 60kW (software unlocked). Yeah... NO, I HAVE a full 60kW battery pack, the software limited 40kW battery pack was no longer a thing when my car was built, wanna try again? That's when they said they'd have the SC SM call me back. When he did, that's when he sprung the "oops, not $2.5k, actually $12k for the SuC license, sorry".

I agree that they're clueless about these early models. When I stopped by the second SC a week ago the kid at the SC desk looked like he was still in High School! When I didn't hear from him for over a week, and I happened to be in the area, I stopped in and talked to the SM who the woman in the sales side said "knew everything" about these old models.

He did some digging on his laptop and said that he found a bulletin or something saying, just like my SM at my School said earlier, that my only option was the $12K SuC license with FUSC - basically all-or-none, no in between. When I asked about CCS and CHAdeMO, he said that both of those require the $12K SuC license first. I don't think that's right, but I don't know what more I can do to prove them wrong. I was hoping the second SC would have a different answer.

Maybe I'm getting paranoid but I'm almost wondering if they have this noted on my account and are all sticking to the same story, knowing I have no way of proving them wrong.

I would need someone else in my position to get their SC to give them a formal estimate in writing showing that SuC could be enabled for $2500 for their equivalent 2014 MS 60 with a current date, so they couldn't say, oh yeah, we stopped that 3 years ago, sorry.

None of this is published online so I have no idea what it cost at different points in time. Do the SC's have any flexibility on stuff like this, or does Tesla corp. set the rules? I gotta think it's coming from corporate.

When I have more time I'll call a couple 3rd party repair shops but I'm doubtful they'll be able to help for the reasons I've already expressed. I'll let you know what they tell me.

 

[scgaskill]

Hi, this is getting off topic already, can’t you guys get a new subject for this?

Yeah sorry

 

[scgaskill]

True, DC charger is the big box outside of the car. That said, there is a "DC charge port controller ECU", which is what you change out to get it to make it work with CCS adapter.

But you can take the hard drive out of one PC and put it in another, therefore transferring the Windows license. All good, as long as you don't make a copy and try to run both. Microsoft will re-activate your windows on the new PC if you tell them you changed out the motherboard (which technically you did).


I'd make a call, see what's possible. I know those shops do allow swapping a larger battery to your car, which technically is transferring the battery license too as they have to reprogram your car to show as S85 or S90 for example, which does for example improve your power/acceleration .


Yea, there was one other thought that occurred to me. SC staff today has zero knowledge of old Teslas, and Model S without supercharging are so rate you were probably the very first one they ever saw. Perhaps when they quoted you $12,500 for the Supercharging, they looked up the incorrect update. Tesla very briefly produced S40's, which actually had 60KWh batteries onboard but were actually missing the hardware needed for supercharging. They did sell this upgrade but it costed (IIRC) $8,000 for 60KWh unlock or $10,000 if you wanted unlock with supercharging hardware and enablement capacity. I met a guy once who bought an S40 and paid the full price just because he wanted supercharging. There would not be a 2014 S40, only 2012 and maybe 2013, but current SC workers wouldn't know that.

I see your point, though I gotta tell you early days of Tesla were pretty ad-hoc, they kept records in emails and sticky notes. Around 2020 Tesla realized they were accidentally enabling FSD on cars which were never supposed have had it in the first place - they reverted them but only starting with car made late 2017 or even 2018. You can probably still find threads on this on TMC. It implied pre 2018 they just didn't have records to prove who paid for what. I know I had referral credit dollars, and as funny as it sounds, each time I wanted to use it, I had to forward the SC the email chain which started with my sales person confirming I got the credit and that had emails confirming new referral or when I used it - an email chain ledger. I think technically they still owe me $10 or less of referral money, but I'm not going to bother with it - last time they changed out the 12V battery I just told them to call it even as my referral balance was a few dollars over the invoice after taxes.

OK, I called 2 3rd party shops, the two you mentioned, Electrified America and Gruber Motors. EA said that they could probably do it but would need to root the MCU, and that starts at $3K and they cannot do it remote so I'd need to drive or ship the car to them. Gruber agreed with me that they could NOT enable any features, that that would put them in legal jeopardy.

I don't know what Tesla's stance is on rooting the MCU, particularly for the purposes of enabling features they have not sold, but I'm real certain that that could also result in legal jeopardy if they caught it and wanted to pursue it against the shop who did it and the person, me, who paid for it. I'm not spending $3-4K to do this via rooting the MCU, and potentially having it disabled if they somehow figure out it was done illegally.

 

[whitex]

OK, I called 2 3rd party shops, the two you mentioned, Electrified America and Gruber Motors. EA said that they could probably do it but would need to root the MCU, and that starts at $3K and they cannot do it remote so I'd need to drive or ship the car to them. Gruber agreed with me that they could NOT enable any features, that that would put them in legal jeopardy.

I don't know what Tesla's stance is on rooting the MCU, particularly for the purposes of enabling features they have not sold, but I'm real certain that that could also result in legal jeopardy if they caught it and wanted to pursue it against the shop who did it and the person, me, who paid for it. I'm not spending $3-4K to do this via rooting the MCU, and potentially having it disabled if they somehow figure out it was done illegally.

I totally understand you point of view, even though there may be a loophole, since Tesla is specifically not offering your car the no-SuC but DC charging option anymore, so they cannot claim they lost any revenue if someone was to enable it for you. Sorry this happened to you. Tesla raising a price from $2,500 to $12,500, even though this feature would obviously be used 10 years less (they didn't have to provide free supercharging for the first 10 years of the car's life), is just Tesla wanting their old cars off their supercharging network. It will be interesting to see what happens once they open the superchargers to Chevrolet and and that sends a fleet of Bolts which charge at 50KW maximum to use Tesla superchargers for a long time at a time.

 

[brainhouston]

I don't know what Tesla's stance is on rooting the MCU, particularly for the purposes of enabling features they have not sold, but I'm real certain that that could also result in legal jeopardy if they caught it and wanted to pursue it against the shop who did it and the person, me, who paid for it. I'm not spending $3-4K to do this via rooting the MCU, and potentially having it disabled if they somehow figure out it was done illegally.

There's bunch of cars with rooted MCUs (me included) n SC enabled by other means, mostly salvage cars (pro tip: its less than $1k )
I can tell u for sure Tesla doesn't care
They get paid when i supercharge so why would they care?... They have bigger issues to worry about than few of rooted cars..
With rooting u disable Teslas access so no updates (so nothing gets reverted) but on MCU1 cars thats not a big deal since we barely get any updates anyways...
If u do go to Service Center for some repair they might replace ur MCU to "fix" it but i doubt it...

Anyhow see this thread already started for SC info for older cars:

Supercharging for an Early Model S - Can't Tesla do the right thing?

I was an early investor in Tesla (pre IPO). On April 17 of 2014, I purchased a Model S for $80k+. I currently have 31k miles on the car. When I purchased the car, I decided to not pay the $2.5k for unlimited Supercharging (SC) since I installed a home charger and was planning on only using the...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[scgaskill]

There's bunch of cars with rooted MCUs (me included) n SC enabled by other means, mostly salvage cars (pro tip: its less than $1k )
I can tell u for sure Tesla doesn't care
They get paid when i supercharge so why would they care?... They have bigger issues to worry about than few of rooted cars..
With rooting u disable Teslas access so no updates (so nothing gets reverted) but on MCU1 cars thats not a big deal since we barely get any updates anyways...
If u do go to Service Center for some repair they might replace ur MCU to "fix" it but i doubt it...

Anyhow see this thread already started for SC info for older cars:

Supercharging for an Early Model S - Can't Tesla do the right thing?

I was an early investor in Tesla (pre IPO). On April 17 of 2014, I purchased a Model S for $80k+. I currently have 31k miles on the car. When I purchased the car, I decided to not pay the $2.5k for unlimited Supercharging (SC) since I installed a home charger and was planning on only using the...

teslamotorsclub.com

Thanks, I read that thread and responded there.

 

[hoghead]

By "tapping" I mean tapping it back toward me.

One of the ongoing issues I'm having is finding year and feature specific documentation. I often hear that there weren't many cars sold like mine w/o features enabled so it's often just assumed that "all cars do that".... Uh, sorry, no. And changes in how features work over time, trying to determine how things work for MY specific year/build.

For example, I was puzzled why my door handles didn't present when the car was locked and I pressed the handle. One version of the user guide said something to the effect "you need to have a key fob, but you don't have to use it, keep it in your pocket and just press the handle to present", then in another version of the user guide it says this only works if you have the Tech Package, which, of course, isn't one of the items listed under software and not a feature my car is licensed for.

If the car is unlocked, then pressing the handle makes it present even w/o the Tech Pkg, so it appeared to be an intermittent problem because the first user guide led me to believe that ALL cars could present when the handle is pushed when locked. The second version made it sound like you only needed the Tech Package if you want the car to present the handles simply by recognizing the key fob w/o even touching the handle.

This is just one example. These early models features seemed to have been very ala carte. It may be true that MOST buyers chose to purchase many of the mist common features, but not all buyers did! Being a new owner, new to Tesla's and the various features that they have, it's an ongoing game of "20 questions" trying to sort it all out. Except that, like I said earlier, my car doesn't seem to have any features licensed - no SuC, no Navigation, no Tech Pkg, no AP (probably), etc etc etc so my default assumption now is, for any given optional feature, it likely isn't licensed, and Tesla will want $2-3K to license each feature if I want it!

Don't get me wrong, I love the car, it is in great shape with only 42K miles, but I wish I knew what I know now before I bought the car, I would have probably passed on this one. I didn't specifically seek out a MS, I was looking for a used ICE car when I found this, and really loved the car, but I didn't realize I needed to spend so much effort learning about each and every feature, and how it was sold and licensed, and the costs to enable them now. So I have a beautiful car that I love to drive that isn't really the cool high tech car people think it is.

You push the stalk in towards the steering column a orange light appears then push stalk up like a turn signal....

 

[Brass Guy]

Late to this thread, but it sounds to me like in Tesla's system your car is marked as a 40kwh software limited car. If I recall, unlocking the 40 to 60 was $10k. (Maybe $12k?) Supercharging was not allowed on 40's, so a 40 would have to be unlocked then purchase the supercharging option. $12,500 to enable supercharging is ridiculous, it's a software switch Tesla can to from remote.

 

[scgaskill]

Late to this thread, but it sounds to me like in Tesla's system your car is marked as a 40kwh software limited car. If I recall, unlocking the 40 to 60 was $10k. (Maybe $12k?) Supercharging was not allowed on 40's, so a 40 would have to be unlocked then purchase the supercharging option. $12,500 to enable supercharging is ridiculous, it's a software switch Tesla can to from remote.

You're spot on, except that, sometimes in the past, before I bought the car, a previous owner DID buy the "unlock" making my car a 60. I agree $12.5K is absolutely absurd, even if it does include FUSC, which I really neither want or need. See my other posts on how I feel about FUSC, at least for me.

I just need the ability to use the SC network for "emergency" circumstances and use it only enough to get a quick charge to a point I can get back home w/o spending hours at a L2 charger. I'd be perfectly happy with PAYG. Tesla doesn't care and has given me no other option, so screw them, I'll just drive my ICE car if I need longer range, which is rarely.

I'm not spending thousands to replace this car or to license SC. I love the car and am OK with it's shortcomings and Tesla's terrible customer service. The less I need to interact with them the better.

They quoted me $3K to enable TACC, auto-lane steering and auto-lane change. Not sure if it included the full "Tech Package" but it doesn't matter, I'm not spending $3K for these features. They sound mildly useful, not $3K useful.

That was over a month ago, I was mostly curious, I know that that was the original cost when the car was new and with the 60, just about everything was ala carte.

The only optional features my car has are Premium Connectivity, and the Panoramic roof. Nothing else. No Nav, no SC, no AP features, etc.

I'm ok with that, most of those features I can live without, but having the ability to quickly add a significant charge to my battery quickly would be very helpful and would extend my limited range even for just around town, Chicago is a big town, and I can run low on battery just going from suburb to suburb.