Autopilot bug with lane change

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Tesla should have updated all its obsolete document and be ready on the announcement to reflect its new changes.

So, it's fair that you caught Tesla with its own conflicting documents.

But if we ONLY deal with the order page, I think the support assistant is right.

"Autopilot

Enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.".

It can brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.
Can it steer automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane?
I sincerely hope it doesn't accelerate automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.

Clear as mud.

 

[Thp3]

So you’re not getting the good deal you expected. Just get a refund since you don’t like it.

It’s not a issue you will succeed at overcoming, it’s just the evolution of FSD by partitioning autopilot into safety and FSD driving components. The driving components seem to have more features announced now and with HW3 they might be very good. I think I have three wireless updates in queue (2019.7.2 red light detection?, 2019.8.2 (peak power), 2019.8.3-enhanced summon ). 2019.5.15 was pretty nice with better lane control.

They are not all FSD related but there is a lot of change to come to grips with.

 

[Tam]

Except that the Autopilot page with the video wasn't obsolete. It had been recently updated to reflect the new Autopilot offering. Here's the old version of the page, showing Enhanced Autopilot:

Both old and new texts don't promise any AutoLane Change function at all.

So the only question is how about the video.

The video clearly says "Enhanced Autopilot"

Still, there's no question that you have caught Tesla with its pants down for not properly revising its documentation including video.

I understand what Tesla means but does the public who relies on its conflicting documentation know?

So can Tesla get away with it despite of its sloppiness in documentation?

That is a legal question.

 

[Tam]

...Can it steer automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane?

Yes. Without the AutoSteer, the car may drift away from the lane and land off a cliff.

With the AutoSteer, it would center within a lane whether there's a car or pedestrian in front or not.

Its function is centering, not braking.

...I sincerely hope it doesn't accelerate automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.

Alteration of speed is not the function of AutoSteer.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

So you’re not getting the good deal you expected. Just get a refund since you don’t like it.

It’s not a issue you will succeed at overcoming, it’s just the evolution of FSD by partitioning autopilot into safety and FSD driving components. The driving components seem to have more features announced now and with HW3 they might be very good. I think I have three wireless updates in queue (2019.7.2 red light detection?, 2019.8.2 (peak power), 2019.8.3-enhanced summon ). 2019.5.15 was pretty nice with better lane control.

They are not all FSD related but there is a lot of change to come to grips with.

I already asked them for a refund. They said no.
I alternatively asked to get the Autopilot functions that they demonstrate on their website. They said no.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Yes. Without the AutoSteer, the car may drift away from the lane and land off a cliff.

With the AutoSteer, it would center within a lane whether there's a car or pedestrian in front or not.

Its function is centering, not braking.

Alteration of speed is not the function of AutoSteer.

The description you provided was for Autopilot, not Autosteer. Autopilot, to the best of by knowledge, never accelerates for other vehicles and pedestrians, regardless where they are.

Similarly, I've never experienced it to steer based on the presence of other vehicles or pedestrians, only brake.

The point is that the description is not crystal clear

"Autopilot

Enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane."

"Within its lane" could refer to where "your car" can steer or it could refer to where "other vehicles and pedestrians" need to be to engage automatic braking.

 

[Tam]

"Within its lane" could refer to where "your car" can steer or it could refer to where "other vehicles and pedestrians" need to be to engage automatic braking.

It means AP as a whole only focuses within its lane.

That means AP doesn't need 8 cameras to worry about there's a speeding car from behind from adjacent lanes because the driver is responsible for manual lane change since the new AP is missing Automatic Lane Change.

That means AP doesn't have to worry about detecting a turn signal from an adjacent car that wants to get in your lane in front of you.

 

[Knightshade]

It can brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.
Can it steer automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane?

Seems to be a grammar issue on your reading of the description.

Here it is again, with some markup to help you-


Enables your car to (steer) and (accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians) within its lane."


That's 2 different features it offers- both of them only within its lane.

Steering within its lane is autosteer.

accelerating and braking automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane is TACC.

I sincerely hope it doesn't accelerate automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.

.... why?

if it didn't accelerate based on what other vehicles in the lane are doing it'd never speed back up after slowing down for a car in front who did so.

Clear as mud.

Hopefully it's much clearer now.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

It means AP as a whole only focuses within its lane.

That means AP doesn't need 8 cameras to worry about there's a speeding car from behind from adjacent lanes because the driver is responsible for manual lane change since the new AP is missing Automatic Lane Change.

That means AP doesn't have to worry about detecting a turn signal from an adjacent car that wants to get in your lane in front of you.

Although I might take issue with your examples, that is one possible interpretation. However, I think it's also possible to interpret it as saying that automatic braking is triggered by other cars and people in your lane, not by things outside of your lane.

The point is that if Tesla had actually provided the complete list of features that were included in the two packages, I wouldn't have sought out the updated but misleading video section, and we wouldn't be parsing the meaning of "within its lane".

 

[Thp3]

I already asked them for a refund. They said no.
I alternatively asked to get the Autopilot functions that they demonstrate on their website. They said no.

So you seem to have thought you’d get a good deal on the $2k AP. It’s not what you wanted. Escalate your request for a refund. You are likely to get your money back. But you won’t get the full FSD enabled AP.

Alternatively you could pay more and get the full FSD. It likely won’t be cheaper than now. If/when it really works, the price will go up because people will pay.

You should be able to get a full refund, but the full software/hardware set may be more attractive.

Refunds are always harder to complete than purchases.
Good luck.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Seems to be a grammar issue on your reading of the description.

Here it is again, with some markup to help you-


Enables your car to (steer) and (accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians) within its lane."


That's 2 different features it offers- both of them only within its lane.

Steering within its lane is autosteer.

accelerating and braking automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane is TACC.

Snarkiness aside, you've not only marked up the sentence, you've altered it.

But as long as we're playing:
"Enables your car to (steer), (accelerate) and (brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane)."

.... why?

if it didn't accelerate based on what other vehicles in the lane are doing it'd never speed back up after slowing down for a car in front who did so.

I have never, ever seen it accelerate for other vehicle in its own lane, only decelerate. It only accelerates when it does not detect another vehicle in its lane.

Hopefully it's much clearer now.

Not really, no.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

So you seem to have thought you’d get a good deal on the $2k AP. It’s not what you wanted. Escalate your request for a refund. You are likely to get your money back. But you won’t get the full FSD enabled AP.

Alternatively you could pay more and get the full FSD. It likely won’t be cheaper than now. If/when it really works, the price will go up because people will pay.

You should be able to get a full refund, but the full software/hardware set may be more attractive.

Refunds are always harder to complete than purchases.
Good luck.

Thanks. I requested that the issue be elevated. They said a supervisor will contact me today or tomorrow. If they don't, I'll contact them again on Wednesday.

I'd be happy with either a refund or ALC. No harm, no foul.
FSD is now $7k for me. At present, that's a non-starter.
If I'm stuck with the status quo, it will definitely taint my opinion of the brand.

 

[Tam]

...
The point is that if Tesla had actually provided the complete list of features that were included in the two packages, I wouldn't have sought out the updated but misleading video section, and we wouldn't be parsing the meaning of "within its lane".

You've got my ears and I do agree.

Good luck for your quest in getting either Auto Lance Change or a refund.

 

[Knightshade]

I have never, ever seen it accelerate for other vehicle in its own lane, only decelerate. It only accelerates when it does not detect another vehicle in its lane.
.

That's demonstrably false dude. Have you actually used it for more than like 2 minutes?

Every time the guy in front of you slows down, the car does too.

If they guy speeds up, the car does too

How else do you think it gets going again in traffic if it comes to a stop?

It accelerates for a vehicle in its own lane in front of it

 

[biotour]

will the stripped down autopilot still swerve into another lane (provided no other vehicle in the way) to avoid a car that's infringing on your lane or getting too close? or do we need to pay extra for that?

 

[BrunoB]

Well i was tonna add the new AP. But now knowing that it dose not include lane change ill pass

 

[wrf2e]

I will say, I thought the same thing you did when I placed my order. A couple of days later, I found out I was mistaken and ALC isn't included, but I found that here. The Tesla site, I feel, is almost intentionally confusing. I have no leg to stand on ethically, because I was aware of what was included before I made final payment and signed the MVPA.

 

[Knightshade]

will the stripped down autopilot still swerve into another lane (provided no other vehicle in the way) to avoid a car that's infringing on your lane or getting too close? or do we need to pay extra for that?

That's not a feature of any version of AP, it's a basic safety feature of all current Teslas regardless of trim/options.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

That's demonstrably false dude. Have you actually used it for more than like 2 minutes?

Every time the guy in front of you slows down, the car does too.

If they guy speeds up, the car does too

How else do you think it gets going again in traffic if it comes to a stop?

It accelerates for a vehicle in its own lane in front of it

OK, fair enough. TACC does behave the way you describe it above. I'm still not sure I would describe that behavior as accelerating for another vehicle (or pedestrian for that matter). But let's just agree for the sake of argument.

Spoiler: pedantic grammar stuff

However, contrary to your earlier assertion, there is a series of three actions (verbs) in that sentence ("steer", "accelerate" and "brake"), followed by an adverbial clause ("automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians"). Base on the sentence structure and rules of grammar, that adverbial phrase can only be interpreted two ways. It is either modifying just the last verb, as in:

Enables your car to:
1) steer,
2) accelerate and
3) brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians

or it is modifying all three verbs, as in:

Enables your car to:
1) steer automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians,
2) accelerate automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians and
3) brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians

As written, there is no third way to interpret that phrase. It cant apply to just 2 & 3, or 1 & 3, or 1 & 2

The second option troubles me.
I think we agree that it will brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians and I will ascent to the notion that it will accelerate automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians. However I cannot wrap my head around the assertion that it will steer automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians. Correct me (again) if I'm wrong, but no version of AP, EAP, or FSD does that (yet). It just doesn't make sense.

If we agree that "automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians" does not apply to how the car steers, then it cannot apply to all three and we must agree that it only applies to how it brakes.

That leads us to the big question; what part of the sentence is the prepositional phrase "within its lane" intended to modify. It could either be adverbial, modifying how the car steers, brakes, and accelerates, or it could be adjectival, modifying where the other vehicles and pedestrians are.

To avoid confusion, best practices would dictate that the modifier is placed adjacent to its object. That would lead one to interpret "within its lane" as describing where other vehicles and pedestrians are.

If on the other hand, the intent was to describe the action of the car, then the writers have created an ambiguity. In grammatical terms, they have misplaced the modifier. Consider the following sentence :

She walked her dog in a bikini

While the intent above is to convey that the woman, and not the dog, wore the swimsuit, the unartful placement of the modifier leads to one to question.

So too, if the intent was to clarify under what limited conditions the car will Autosteer, Tesla has inadvertently added to the confusion.

 

[moonchic73]

Yep, ^^^ this^^^ has to be OP's issue. IT is not a bug.
Trial was EAP, bought AP. AP does not do lane changes. Turn signal cancels lane keep.

Yep. This was indeed my issue...I'm pretty miffed at the way customer service handled it though...2 people I spoke to said lane change should still be working. 1 didn't. They change things so frequently that nobody is ever on the same page.