Autopilot bug with lane change

[Knightshade]

I honestly have no idea what is so hard to understand.

The video is in an updated section that is now dedicated exclusively to Package B.

Except for the video saying right in the video that it's about package A.

I
Therefore everything in that video applies to Package B, unless there are disclaimers to the contrary.

Is it me?

yes, it is.

Since again, the actual video says it's about enhanced autopilot

You've been shown a picture of that. Multiple times. And still insist there's just NO indication it's about EAP.

Which, quite clearly, is not correct.

If Tesla had not gone to the trouble of updating that section to reflect the change from EAP to AP, I would agree with you. But they did update it.

They updated most of it. Not all of it.

You can tell because the video still says enhanced AP.

This is pretty common with the terrible website staff they have updating things.


Here's how the page used to look.View attachment 390483 After the update, that section, and all of it current contents, apply to the current AP offering.

.The point-of-sale page for AP does not list any specific features included in AP

Then you haven't much ground to stand on when you claim you didn't get a specific feature after purchasing via point of sale page.

 

[brobinson]

brb, updating the wiki entry for 'pedant' with a link to this thread

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Except for the video saying right in the video that it's about package A.




yes, it is.

Since again, the actual video says it's about enhanced autopilot

You've been shown a picture of that. Multiple times. And still insist there's just NO indication it's about EAP.

Which, quite clearly, is not correct.

I never said that there's no indication that it's about EAP. I said that inclusion of it in the updated Autopilot section means that it is also about Autopilot. EVERYTHING in the section dedicated to Autopilot applies to Autopilot, unless they clearly state otherwise. They didn't.

They updated most of it. Not all of it.

You can tell because the video still says enhanced AP.

This is pretty common with the terrible website staff they have updating things.

Actually, it looks like they didn't change anything, except the name of the package. The demo video and the text are identical, even the part about referring to the manual for additional Autopilot features. That of course gives the impression that the two packages are functionally identical,with respect to the features shown.

Then you haven't much ground to stand on when you claim you didn't get a specific feature after purchasing via point of sale page.

I beg to differ.

1. The recently updated section of the Tesla website, dedicated exclusively to the Autopilot package includes ALC features in its video demonstration.
2. The recently updated section of the Tesla website, dedicated exclusively to the Autopilot package states that there are additional Autopilot features detailed in the Owners Manual.
3. The Owners manual includes Auto Lane Change in the chapter dedicated to Autosteer, and says that it is available whenever Autosteer is engaged. (Tesla has confirmed that Autosteer is part of AP).
4. The point-of-sale page also includes descriptions of the differences between AP and FSD. It states that AP is a prerequisite of FSD. It further, explicitly states that NoA, AutoPark, Summon, and future upgrade functions are added by FSD. If ALC isn't listed as part of the FSD upgrade, then it stands to reason that ALC is part of the prerequisite Autopilot package, as referenced in the owners manual and demonstrated in section dedicated to Autopilot

 

[Knightshade]

I never said that there's no indication that it's about EAP. I said that inclusion of it in the updated Autopilot section means that it is also about Autopilot. .

I realize you keep saying this- but it keeps being demonstrably false.

They replaced some OTHER content of the page to be about the new AP package, and simply left an old video on it that clearly right in its opening screen tells you it's about the old package

Leaving old content doesn't magically mean that content is now somehow "about" a thing that didn't even exist when it was created- that's nonsensical.

The recently updated section of the Tesla website, dedicated exclusively to the Autopilot package includes ALC features in its video demonstration.

No, it does not.

It includes a video demonstrating the old, no longer for sale, enhanced AP package.

As already mentioned to you like 10 times now, including showing you screen shots of the video saying that's what it's showing.


I've agreed since the start Tesla is crap at keeping their website up to date.

But you continuing to insist a video whose opening shots tell you it's about EAP "must" be about the new AP unless you're specifically told otherwise isn't getting you anywhere.

1. The recently updated section of the Tesla website, dedicated exclusively to the Autopilot package states that there are additional Autopilot features detailed in the Owners Manual.
2. The Owners manual includes Auto Lane Change in the chapter dedicated to Autosteer, and says that it is available whenever Autosteer is engaged. (Tesla has confirmed that Autosteer is part of AP).

Ah, now see, this is potentially a much better argument....let's see though....

So again it's pretty clear there too the poorly trained monkeys of the web team have failed to update an old document.

These convenience features, designed to reduce driver workload, are available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving Capability packages: • Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (see TrafficAware Cruise Control on page 67). • Autosteer (see Autosteer on page 73)

Bold added to make clear that, once again, the document you reference tells you its further discussion of TACC and autosteer are specific to people who have enhanced autopilot.

ThThe point-of-sale page also includes descriptions of the differences between AP and FSD. It states that AP is a prerequisite of FSD. It further, explicitly states that NoA, AutoPark, Summon, and future upgrade functions are added by FSD. If ALC isn't listed as part of the FSD upgrade, then it stands to reason that ALC is part of the prerequisite Autopilot package

No, it doesn't Since ALC isnt mentioned at all you can't assume it's "part" of anything other than things it'd be required for functioning- which is NoA specifically. Which is NOT part of basic AP.

 

[BrunoB]

For me a good deal would have been a AP with lane change at 4k. That I would have jumped on it. But the current version of AP is not really worth it for me at this point in time,

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

I realize you keep saying this- but it keeps being demonstrably false.

They replaced some OTHER content of the page to be about the new AP package, and simply left an old video on it that clearly right in its opening screen tells you it's about the old package

Leaving old content doesn't magically mean that content is now somehow "about" a thing that didn't even exist when it was created- that's nonsensical.

No, it does not.

It includes a video demonstrating the old, no longer for sale, enhanced AP package.

As already mentioned to you like 10 times now, including showing you screen shots of the video saying that's what it's showing.

I've agreed since the start Tesla is crap at keeping their website up to date.

But you continuing to insist a video whose opening shots tell you it's about EAP "must" be about the new AP unless you're specifically told otherwise isn't getting you anywhere.

Let's put it this way: Would it be fair to say that the video's inclusion in the section dedicated to Autopilot misrepresents the functions currently included in Autopilot?

Ah, now see, this is potentially a much better argument....let's see though....

So again it's pretty clear there too the poorly trained monkeys of the web team have failed to update an old document.

It's the most current document.

Bold added to make clear that, once again, the document you reference tells you its further discussion of TACC and autosteer are specific to people who have enhanced autopilot.

Ah, but it's not a matter of whether TACC and Autosteer are features or EAP and or AP. Tesla has confirmed that TACC and Autosteer are supposed to be part of AP. ALC's inclusion in the chapter dedicated to Autosteer make it part of Autosteer, unless Tesla explicitly changes that.

No, it doesn't Since ALC isnt mentioned at all you can't assume it's "part" of anything other than things it'd be required for functioning- which is NoA specifically. Which is NOT part of basic AP.

According to the Owners manual, NoA was a part of Autosteer, but Tesla explicitly shows it is now part of the FSD package. But because Tesla did not explicitly show that ALC had been moved to FSD, it should still be part of Autosteer, which is part of the Autopilot package.

 

[Knightshade]

Let's put it this way: Would it be fair to say that the video's inclusion in the section dedicated to Autopilot misrepresents the functions currently included in Autopilot?

No, it would not be fair to say that, since that video isn't about the current autopilot, it's about the no-longer-offered enhanced autopilot.

It's the most current document.

yes, they haven't updated the owners manual at all to reflect the existence of the new version of AP- Hence why I pointed out the current manual explicitly and only references enhanced AP.

Ah, but it's not a matter of whether TACC and Autosteer are features or EAP and or AP. Tesla has confirmed that TACC and Autosteer are supposed to be part of AP. ALC's inclusion in the chapter dedicated to Autosteer make it part of Autosteer, unless Tesla explicitly changes that.

That's simply not the case.

The paragraph I directly quoted you from page 65 makes that crystal clear.

here it is again since you missed it the first time-

These convenience features, designed to reduce driver workload, are available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving Capability packages: • Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (see TrafficAware Cruise Control on page 67). • Autosteer (see Autosteer on page 73)

They're telling you- clearly, and explicitly, that all descriptions to follow of all these convenience features, are specifically for owners of enhanced autopilot


here, let me repeat the manual 3 more times-

available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving
available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving
available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving

 

[brobinson]

For me a good deal would have been a AP with lane change at 4k. That I would have jumped on it. But the current version of AP is not really worth it for me at this point in time,

I jumped on it at $2k, having bought the car in 2018. The other luxury brands charge about that much for TACC (and various tech packages that are required to even get to that point, most of which my car already does) and the more mature auto-steer is well worth it.

ALC would be cool to have, but I cant imagine losing so much sleep over it, nor feeling like I was actively mislead by Tesla about whether or not it would be included in the package. Honestly, ALC felt far more inconsistent then I would like it to be when I used it during my EAP trial last year. I'd much rather that they make manual lane changes a bit more seamless then just shoehorning ALC into the new base AP package.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

No, it would not be fair to say that, since that video isn't about the current autopilot, it's about the no-longer-offered enhanced autopilot.

Seriously?
OK, if the video isn't about autopilot what function does it serve in a section that is dedicated solely to Autopilot? Why is it there?

yes, they haven't updated the owners manual at all to reflect the existence of the new version of AP- Hence why I pointed out the current manual explicitly and only references enhanced AP.

That's simply not the case.

The paragraph I directly quoted you from page 65 makes that crystal clear.

here it is again since you missed it the first time-

These convenience features, designed to reduce driver workload, are available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving Capability packages: • Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (see TrafficAware Cruise Control on page 67). • Autosteer (see Autosteer on page 73)

They're telling you- clearly, and explicitly, that all descriptions to follow of all these convenience features, are specifically for owners of enhanced autopilot
here, let me repeat the manual 3 more times-

available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving
available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving
available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving

I honestly don't follow your meaning.

1. Are you arguing that TACC and Autosteer are not available to buyers of the recent AP package because they don't have EAP or FSD?
2. Are you implying that ALC was never part of EAP because it isn't listed above?
3. Are you arguing that Tesla can make changes to documented Autosteer features and continue selling it to the consumer, under the same name, without explicitly defining those changes?
4. Other?

 

[Knightshade]

Seriously?
OK, if the video isn't about autopilot what function does it serve in a section that is dedicated solely to Autopilot? Why is it there?

Because it's been there for a long time and the poorly trained web monkeys at Tesla forgot to remove it when they changed the name of the page.

Like you've already been told like 12 times now.

I honestly don't follow your meaning.

Clearly.

Are you arguing that TACC and Autosteer are not available to buyers of the recent AP package because they don't have EAP or FSD?

No, I'm arguing that the descriptions of all those features in the owners manual are specifically about the versions contained in EAP and FSD

You can tell because it literally says that in the manual


by ALL MEANS Tesla should hire someone even vaguely competent to manage their web content and correctly remove old product descriptions of things they don't even sell anymore-

But you keep pointing at documentation of EAP features, that explicitly say they are descriptions of EAP features and then complaining that a package that is not EAP lacks one of those features.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Because it's been there for a long time and the poorly trained web monkeys at Tesla forgot to remove it when they changed the name of the page.

Like you've already been told like 12 times now.

OK.

Would you agree that the contents of that specific section of the page are intended to describe features of the Autopilot package?

No, I'm arguing that the descriptions of all those features in the owners manual are specifically about the versions contained in EAP and FSD

You can tell because it literally says that in the manual


by ALL MEANS Tesla should hire someone even vaguely competent to manage their web content and correctly remove old product descriptions of things they don't even sell anymore-

But you keep pointing at documentation of EAP features, that explicitly say they are descriptions of EAP features and then complaining that a package that is not EAP lacks one of those features.

So you're arguing #3

Are you arguing that Tesla can make changes to documented Autosteer features and continue selling it to the consumer, under the same name, without explicitly defining those changes?

According to the Autopilot section, TACC and Autosteer are Autopilot functions. Autosteer functions are describe in detail in the owners manual. ALC and NoA were described as Autosteer features. The point-of-sale screen makes it explicitly clear that NoA was moved to FSD-only. No such mention was made regarding a change to ALC. Therefore, ALC should technically still be part of Autosteer, which the support page describes as a function of Autopilot.

 

[dhrivnak]

Where does it say on a Tesla page that lane change is NOT included in AutoPilot? What I find on their page seems to clearly say lane change is part of AutoPilot.

Autopilot
Autopilot advanced safety and convenience features are designed to assist you with the most burdensome parts of driving. Autopilot introduces new features and improves existing functionality to make your Tesla safer and more capable over time.

Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.
Autopilot

 

[Runebane]

Where does it say on a Tesla page that lane change is NOT included in AutoPilot? What I find on their page seems to clearly say lane change is part of AutoPilot.

Autopilot
Autopilot advanced safety and convenience features are designed to assist you with the most burdensome parts of driving. Autopilot introduces new features and improves existing functionality to make your Tesla safer and more capable over time.

Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.
Autopilot

That's Tesla UK, not Tesla USA. It's not unusual for car manufacturers to do things different across the pond than what they do here. Including lane change in the UK autopilot but not the USA one, would not be unusual. Also, that's the page for the S and X, while I doubt it would change for the 3, they stated these features were for the S & X.

 

[Runebane]

Normally I would just edit my old post but I think this deserves a 2nd one:

I just went to the Tesla USA website and it shows auto lane change as part of Autopilot. So I wonder if they decided to include it or if this is yet another part of the website that hasn't been updated with the new changes because it also shows Nav on Autopilot there as well. But Enhanced Autopilot was not mentioned on this page:

Model 3 | Tesla (you might need to click the learn more on Autopilot)

/edited for clairity

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

That overview includes some options that are explicitly limited to FSD, and some that aren't . It doesn't clarify one way or the other

 

[BeachK]

Yup. The basic Autopilot is not worth money. Too bad they dont have a return policy on it.

 

[Knightshade]

OK.

Would you agree that the contents of that specific section of the page are intended to describe features of the Autopilot package?

The new package? Certainly not the video, which is clearly, expressly, telling you in the video that it's about the old package.

According to the Autopilot section, TACC and Autosteer are Autopilot functions.

So far so good!

Autosteer functions are describe in detail in the owners manual. ALC and NoA were described as Autosteer features.

See, here's where you go off the rails.

because as you've been quoted multiple times directly to you

the manual is describing those features if you have EAP

I mean it says you get all these features only if you have EAP or FSD

available only if your Tesla vehicle is equipped with the optional Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving

You don't have either of those options.

So you can't use the manual description of a package you don't have to be upset you're missing features in a different package.

 

[RLC3]

I'm not interested in getting involved with a detailed discussion about what a lot of different partially conflicting pieces of text really mean. But it's obvious that there is confusion over what each of these packages contain, and it seems to me that Tesla could avoid a lot of problems here if they would just publish a table with one feature on each row, one package name on each column, and populate with X's.

Tesla, are you listening? Clarify this for people please. We don't like being confused.

And yes, of course I'm over simplifying - but the point stands.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

The new package? Certainly not the video, which is clearly, expressly, telling you in the video that it's about the old package.

So a section of the site dedicated to the sole purpose of describing the features of the new package contains a video that does not accurately represent the features of the new package. Got it. Q. E. D.



So far so good!

See, here's where you go off the rails.

because as you've been quoted multiple times directly to you

the manual is describing those features if you have EAP

I mean it says you get all these features only if you have EAP or FSD





You don't have either of those options.

So you can't use the manual description of a package you don't have to be upset you're missing features in a different package.

EAP contained TACC & AS
AP contains TACC & AS.

If Tesla wants to redefine what features comprise TACC & AS, then they need to clearly enumerate all of the changes to those feature sets up front so that consumers can make informed buying decisions. Tesla didn't do that.

 

[dhrivnak]

See, here's where you go off the rails.

because as you've been quoted multiple times directly to you

the manual is describing those features if you have EAP

I mean it says you get all these features only if you have EAP or FSD

I disagree in my Model 3 in the latest owners manual under the AutoPilot section (not enhanced) it clearly states lane change on turn signal. Then lists MANY warnings. You may be right but Tesla is NOT being clear.