Autopilot issues with hills (AP1)

[shred86]

Drove to Death Valley today and while driving on a straight two lane road with several hills varying in size, autopilot aggressively steered into the on-coming lane or towards the edge of the road after crossing the top of the hill. There were about 10+ small hills on this road so I was able see it occur multiple times. It also seems to occur at the bottom of the hill if there’s a small drop just prior to going up. Watching the lines on the instrument cluster, you can see the left or right lane line disappear for about a second and the car aggressively steers left or right immediately after. While I understand the camera is losing the lane lines for a period of time, I was just surprised to see it aggressively steer into the on-coming lane or towards the edge of the road. However, on two occasions it functioned as I’d expect. One of the lane lines disappeared for a second but the car just continued straight and made a small correction when the line came back. I did a google search and there’s a thread over on the official Tesla forums from over a year ago about it, and also a couple YouTube videos showing the same behavior.

Have any of you experienced this same behavior? Any difference with AP2?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

AP2 used to have the same problem but they fixed it in 2018. I didn't realize it was still an issue with AP1.

 

[murphyS90D]

It has always been an issue with AP1 and is the major reason that I don't trust AP1. It tells me they are not computing a true course to follow like your brain does. Instead they are looking at the edge of the road right in front of the car like a new driver does until his instructor tells him not to do that. I still remember that warning from my Dad when I was 16.

 

[Fobble]

I had similar issue with my 2015 AP1, except it's not with hills, but rather on weavy farm road where there are some intentional consecutive dips to let water flow thru in heavy rains.

 

[shred86]

I’d be curious to know what’s actually causing the autopilot to command such an aggressive turn into the adjacent, on-coming lane. You would think simply losing a lane line for a second shouldn’t cause autopilot to go crazy, especially considering there’s other times I’ve seen it lose lane lines and handle it just fine (not on a hill though). This is on 2018.48.12.1. I tried doing a bug report real time hoping perhaps Tesla could see the log data from that particular area and time but I didn’t have connectivity at the time.

Well, if anyone is ever driving east on 190 after the Furnace Creek Visitor Center (or probably any road with hill or sudden dips) and you’re in an AP1 car, definitely be ready to immediately correct. I had maybe just over a second to react (at ~65 mph) before the car was in the opposite lane, which even with your hand on the steering wheel you definitely have to catch it right away.

I’ll shoot an email to Tesla but seeing how it’s been an issue for years now and it’s still not fixed, I’m assuming we’re just stuck with this in AP1.

 

[araxara]

I have this problem (steering onto oncoming traffic near the top of the hill) with my 2016 AP1 Model X on a very steep hill near my neighborhood. The problem has not really gotten any better since day 1.

My Model 3 AP2+ did not have this problem, since I got in in August 2018. But since the previous and latest (9.0 18.50.6) update, it wants to steer towards the oncoming traffic. I've had to take over several times. One time when there was no oncoming traffic, I let it do its thing and after crossing the center line, it complained and said "Take Over Immediately". I think the radar my be seeing something far away when at the top of the hill.

 

[ElectricEel]

Slightly off topic, but I was driving a 2019 Audi Q5 with lane assistant and on a completely flat road when the car lost lane markings it would veer left. It might be the dumbest coding or bug I've ever seen hearing AP1 do the same thing sounds like they are using the same logic in coding.

 

[murphyS90D]

At the crest of a hill the car is looking out into space and can't see the road until it goes over the crest. The MobilEye chip/camera is the problem. My 2013 Ford Fusion Energi has the same chip. Most other cars with "lane keeping" probably use the MobilEye chip.

 

[BerTX]

AP1 has always done this. It isn't as bad as it was at first, but I don't ever use it in hilly areas. And I live in hilly areas.

AP1 is great on Interstates. Anything else required constant attention. On some roads, it is better not to use it. If AP2 does not beer off without warning when it loses lane lines, then AP2 is better in those circumstances. I assume, as is indicated above, that it is something that MobilEye causes and Tesla can't fix. Is it something MobilEye causes and Tesla refuses to fix because of a temper tantrum? Who knows?

 

[A-Wimoweh]

Autosteer is NOT designed to be used in those conditions. In the manual it says NOT to use it on undivided highways, where there is no separation between your lane and the oncoming traffic lane, or where cross traffic may occur.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Autosteer is NOT designed to be used in those conditions. In the manual it says NOT to use it on undivided highways, where there is no separation between your lane and the oncoming traffic lane, or where cross traffic may occur.

Well that was helpful.

 

[kavyboy]

AP1 has always done this. It isn't as bad as it was at first, but I don't ever use it in hilly areas. And I live in hilly areas.

AP1 is great on Interstates. Anything else required constant attention. On some roads, it is better not to use it. If AP2 does not beer off without warning when it loses lane lines, then AP2 is better in those circumstances. I assume, as is indicated above, that it is something that MobilEye causes and Tesla can't fix. Is it something MobilEye causes and Tesla refuses to fix because of a temper tantrum? Who knows?

Exactly this. Some versions of AP1 would dive for exits. Some would freak out on small hills. Some did both. When I got a version that did neither, I stopped updating. Whatever version of V8 I ended up on is solid, but not perfect.

 

[Sorabh]

I just traded my AP1 for AP2 and noticed right away that the AP2 had no issues with the hills that AP1 did

I cant say for sure but the reason I think AP1 struggled was that it could not cope with the lane dividers at the top of the hill. You can kind of replicate this by covering your eyes so you can only see the divider and then see what it looks like as you get to the top.

 

[electronblue]

It is not MobilEye that causes it. It is the camera chosen for AP1 by the hardware integrator — Tesla.

AP1 only has a single narrow camera looking quite a bit ahead. It will see sky on a hillside. Any steering decisions are made by Tesla’s code.

MobilEye EyeQ3 as in AP1 supports several cameras. Indeed Model X was originally supposed to ship with two cameras as some may remember but Tesla chose to provide it with a narrow camera only. Mind you this is not uncommon as some have noted as a narrow camera is useful on highways but it will fail with hills. Simple physics. The lense does not see the road.

The same thing would happen with AP2 were it driven only on its narrow camera but it has the fisheye for context — just like MobilEye’s own triple camera setup which Tesla imitated by the way.

 

[TheDoctor10]

To join the chorus, yes, I've seen similar on divided highways (not interstates) in VA and NC with AP1. Repeatable over the last 2+ years. From my perspective, the system seems to get confused when the camera is staring at the sky as you go uphill only to quickly be staring at the upward slope of the next hill when you start going downward. I always wondered if AP2 was better; it sounds like it might be.

 

[phaphaphooey]

My AP1 did this but has negotiated hills no problems for the first time ever since my last FW update.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

My AP1 did this but has negotiated hills no problems for the first time ever since my last FW update.

There haven't been any changes to AP1 in over two years. However, AP1 will crest hills significantly better if following another vehicle, so this could explain the difference you saw.

 

[BerTX]

I understand that the camera loses it's picture. When I'm steering and I lose my vision, like cresting a hill and suddenly having the sun blasting into my eyes, my reaction is NEVER to steer into oncoming traffic. Never.

This is the thing I have never understood about AP1 and hills.

 

[kavyboy]

I understand that the camera loses it's picture. When I'm steering and I lose my vision, like cresting a hill and suddenly having the sun blasting into my eyes, my reaction is NEVER to steer into oncoming traffic. Never.

This is the thing I have never understood about AP1 and hills.

Especially since I've seen AP1 slow down before entering a tight curve. It knows what's ahead, and that doesn't include any dogleg turns at the crest of the next hill.

 

[shred86]

It is not MobilEye that causes it. It is the camera chosen for AP1 by the hardware integrator — Tesla.

AP1 only has a single narrow camera looking quite a bit ahead. It will see sky on a hillside. Any steering decisions are made by Tesla’s code.

MobilEye EyeQ3 as in AP1 supports several cameras. Indeed Model X was originally supposed to ship with two cameras as some may remember but Tesla chose to provide it with a narrow camera only. Mind you this is not uncommon as some have noted as a narrow camera is useful on highways but it will fail with hills. Simple physics. The lense does not see the road.

The same thing would happen with AP2 were it driven only on its narrow camera but it has the fisheye for context — just like MobilEye’s own triple camera setup which Tesla imitated by the way.

Great info, but like @BerTX mentioned above, it is odd autopilot is steering toward/into a different lane simply because the camera loses the lane line for a second. I'm fairly certain that's only part of the problem, I suspect it's how autopilot is handing (or not handling) whatever input(s) from the camera are occurring in these specific scenarios. I mentioned it in my original post but there were some hills on this stretch of road it handled just fine, and they weren't smaller or larger. Sometimes just a small dip causes autopilot to make an aggressive steering input.

Someone mentioned in another thread that Tesla can only read telemetry data coming from MobilEye and apparently was one of the reasons Tesla split from MobilEye. I'm wondering if it's just a limit with what Tesla can do with MobilEye, hence the reason it's apparently not an issue in AP2+. Unfortunately, all we can do is speculate but it sounds like this not just a specific vehicle issue but an AP1 issue. I just foresee this potentially leading to a high speed collision with on-coming traffic some day because from what I saw, there is very little time to react before you're in the on-coming lane (or off the road).