Best used EV for around town?

[kablammyman]

If you're asking about the RAV4 EV, I've had mine for more than 5 years and I'm still enjoying it.

These are the common problems with the RAV4 EV.
- The drive unit gets noisy due to induced currents in the motor going through the bearings and pitting them. Tesla implemented a fix which Toyota finally approved in early 2016. Drive units replaced with refurbished ones rebuilt with the fix have not subsequently developed the noise. Some people had the drive unit swapped twice under warranty before the fix was implemented.
- The Denso PTC cabin heater is prone to failure. This sometimes takes out a diode in the DC/DC converter leading to a very expensive repair if out of warranty. Cabin heater failure is so common that we always recommend testing the cabin heat before buying one of these cars used. Dealer price to replace the heater alone is about $2,000. This is the main reason I bought the 8yr/100k mi extended warranty.
- The car has a relatively high dark load on the 12V system when parked. This is very stressful on the flooded lead acid battery Toyota uses. If you frequently leave the car parked for 3+ sequential days, the battery will need to be replaced every two years. The car makes no attempt to charge the 12V battery when parked, unlike Tesla vehicles. When you start the car with a dying 12V battery it will usually throw the dreaded "Check EV System" error on the dash and it sometimes requires a trip to the dealer to clear the DTCs, even after the battery is replaced.

Those are the most common things. I had my drive unit replaced for the noise just before the 5 year/60k mile powertrain warranty expired. The Tesla on-board charger was replaced by the dealer before I bought it new. I installed a 60Ah AGM battery after the 3/36k bumper to bumper warranty expired. Other than that, the car has been great. The JdeMO aftermarket CHAdeMO makes the car a whole lot more useful for regional travel around the Bay Area or LA area. Driving between LA and SF is still painful but doable.

yup. All of these things.

 

[miimura]

Bolt can also use Jdemo! 230 miles EPA. After tax breaks can be in high 20's. Still not on par with 3/S/X and charging infrastructure but maybe Electrify America will help a little.

JdeMO is a very specific product that adds a CHAdeMO connector to Tesla powered vehicles. It is only available for the RAV4 EV, Tesla Roadster, and the B-Class Electric (B200e). The Bolt EV has a DC Fast Charge option which uses the CCS connector.

If you plan on parting ways with your RAV4 in the next few months, let me know!

Nope. I'm keeping it at least through the 8/100 extended warranty which will expire in April 2021.

 

[mattack4000]

Bummer, I missed out

Did you have any issues of note while you owned it?

Yes many issues, but all were fixed under warranty. You do have to be careful as Tesla fixes the battery with a refurb one that has less power, you will likely only get about 100 miles on any newer batteries that is t original. Also with the hov stickers going away, it’s part of the reason why I got riff mine

Replaced 12v , motor, heater, dc to dc, some Toyota hybrid plug, traction battery

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Model S 40 for $20K
Tesla Model S | eBay

 

[Vinc]

Model S 40 for $20K
Tesla Model S | eBay

He, he... I think they are expecting a bit more at the end of the auction...

2013 Tesla Model S Stock # 180504C for sale near San Francisco, CA | CA Tesla Dealer

And just with insurance cost, even at almost free a Model S would quickly become much more expensive than a fleet of Spark EVs

 

[Deladuty]

If you're asking about the RAV4 EV, I've had mine for more than 5 years and I'm still enjoying it.

These are the common problems with the RAV4 EV.
- The drive unit gets noisy due to induced currents in the motor going through the bearings and pitting them. Tesla implemented a fix which Toyota finally approved in early 2016. Drive units replaced with refurbished ones rebuilt with the fix have not subsequently developed the noise. Some people had the drive unit swapped twice under warranty before the fix was implemented.
- The Denso PTC cabin heater is prone to failure. This sometimes takes out a diode in the DC/DC converter leading to a very expensive repair if out of warranty. Cabin heater failure is so common that we always recommend testing the cabin heat before buying one of these cars used. Dealer price to replace the heater alone is about $2,000. This is the main reason I bought the 8yr/100k mi extended warranty.
- The car has a relatively high dark load on the 12V system when parked. This is very stressful on the flooded lead acid battery Toyota uses. If you frequently leave the car parked for 3+ sequential days, the battery will need to be replaced every two years. The car makes no attempt to charge the 12V battery when parked, unlike Tesla vehicles. When you start the car with a dying 12V battery it will usually throw the dreaded "Check EV System" error on the dash and it sometimes requires a trip to the dealer to clear the DTCs, even after the battery is replaced.

Those are the most common things. I had my drive unit replaced for the noise just before the 5 year/60k mile powertrain warranty expired. The Tesla on-board charger was replaced by the dealer before I bought it new. I installed a 60Ah AGM battery after the 3/36k bumper to bumper warranty expired. Other than that, the car has been great. The JdeMO aftermarket CHAdeMO makes the car a whole lot more useful for regional travel around the Bay Area or LA area. Driving between LA and SF is still painful but doable.

I have a ‘14 rav4 ev and recently had this dreaded “check ev system” error show up! I have also been having noise from my drive unit as well, it’s not scary or intimidating but I had no idea the units had a recall. I took the car to a dealer and is currently there. They say the drive unit has already been replaced, but if I am having the same noise, and it’s still under warranty, then I should be able to have the unit replaced again, right? This is my first vehicle and I don’t want to miss out on making sure this vehicle lasts till I get my Model 3.

Thank you for the info, it is a Tesla essentially, but I didn’t think I would get it on this forum!

 

[miimura]

I have a ‘14 rav4 ev and recently had this dreaded “check ev system” error show up! I have also been having noise from my drive unit as well, it’s not scary or intimidating but I had no idea the units had a recall. I took the car to a dealer and is currently there. They say the drive unit has already been replaced, but if I am having the same noise, and it’s still under warranty, then I should be able to have the unit replaced again, right? This is my first vehicle and I don’t want to miss out on making sure this vehicle lasts till I get my Model 3.

Thank you for the info, it is a Tesla essentially, but I didn’t think I would get it on this forum!

The "Check EV System" error is really a catch-all for any fault. Just like a Check Engine light on an ICE. For some faults, the Toyota OBD gives you a meaningful message like communication errors with the Gateway ECU (the computer that bridges the Tesla and Toyota systems). Other times, it's just a generic DTC that basically means that you need to use the special Tesla cable and software connected to the port in the back of the car to find the real problem.

Yes, if the drive unit is making enough noise, they will swap it for a refurbished one, even if it had been changed before. It's not a recall, per se, just a known problem that the EV certified dealers are used to dealing with. There have been other actual recalls though. One was basically a software update for the Tesla side so the inverter wouldn't freak out when the speed sensor intermittently gave a bad signal. Two others were for general RAV4 stuff like windshield wipers and rear seat structure that could damage the seat belts in a collision. They are all minor fixes.

One correction to my earlier post - when the heater fails, it doesn't blow a diode, I think it's a "semiconductor fuse" that has a diode symbol on it that means it is the special type of fuse that can protect semiconductor devices. The problem is that the fuse is under the main cover that is sealed with a really knarly black sealant that makes it a huge pain to open and change the fuse. Making that cover waterproof again is important since it's in the engine compartment. Of course, Toyota treats this as a non-serviceable part, so you have to replace the whole thing which has a list price of $2,295. It's also not covered by the Powertrain warranty, so the heater and DC/DC are only covered by the bumper to bumper 3/36k warranty. This is the main reason that I got the Toyota Platinum 8/100k extended warranty.

 

[Xristlovesyou]

I had ordered a model 3 early April '16 but had to conceal after my Polio returned (now 79 yrs old retired Mechanical Engineer) and my wife developed a very rare blood plasma cancer requriing us both to use rollators and her oxygen ( several tanks). So we were amoung the first 300 to order a Chysler Pacifica plug-in hybrid with a 16 KW battery pack to handle all our equipment. It does go 33 to 40 miles at 84 to 100+ mpge and 6 months on a tank of gasoline in warm weather and short trips, but in cold weather it drops to 20 to 27 miles electric range and 50 to 60 mpge then precipitously dropping to 30 to 40 mpg on a 40 mile trip after the ICE kicks on requiring us to buy a tank of gasoline once or twice every month. We have also experienced the engine wanting to run in cold weather even when the battery has been fully charged. In 18 months of ownership we have had four (4) recalls requiring trips to the dealer for electronics reprogramming since they can not just continually do it over the air like Tesla. It is a great car for hauling lots of stuff, but it needs at least a 32 KW and preferably 40 to 50 KW battery to achieve its advertised 33 miles electric range in a wide range of driving conditions including rain where it drops another 20 mpge. We also would like very much heavier regen on decel without down shifting. We have not driven an X yet to find out if everything will fit, but it is in the plan, Lord willing, after the super auto pilot update about 03-19.

 

[RFernatt]

I have a 2015 Leaf and for around town driving it's great. Charged on L1 for the first couple years and that was fine also. Minimal battery degradation after 3 years and dirt cheap to maintain and very solid reliability. Of course, mine was garaged and it's not like WV has AZ heat. But, it's about to be sold with the arrival of the 3.

 

[Big Earl]

Our 2013 Fiat 500e has been working out very well for us around the DC metro area. We've been averaging 15,000 miles per year since we got it a year and a half ago with no issues at all. A full charge on a 30 amp charging station takes about 3.5 hours, which isn't bad.

 

[Deladuty]

The "Check EV System" error is really a catch-all for any fault. Just like a Check Engine light on an ICE. For some faults, the Toyota OBD gives you a meaningful message like communication errors with the Gateway ECU (the computer that bridges the Tesla and Toyota systems). Other times, it's just a generic DTC that basically means that you need to use the special Tesla cable and software connected to the port in the back of the car to find the real problem.

Yes, if the drive unit is making enough noise, they will swap it for a refurbished one, even if it had been changed before. It's not a recall, per se, just a known problem that the EV certified dealers are used to dealing with. There have been other actual recalls though. One was basically a software update for the Tesla side so the inverter wouldn't freak out when the speed sensor intermittently gave a bad signal. Two others were for general RAV4 stuff like windshield wipers and rear seat structure that could damage the seat belts in a collision. They are all minor fixes.

One correction to my earlier post - when the heater fails, it doesn't blow a diode, I think it's a "semiconductor fuse" that has a diode symbol on it that means it is the special type of fuse that can protect semiconductor devices. The problem is that the fuse is under the main cover that is sealed with a really knarly black sealant that makes it a huge pain to open and change the fuse. Making that cover waterproof again is important since it's in the engine compartment. Of course, Toyota treats this as a non-serviceable part, so you have to replace the whole thing which has a list price of $2,295. It's also not covered by the Powertrain warranty, so the heater and DC/DC are only covered by the bumper to bumper 3/36k warranty. This is the main reason that I got the Toyota Platinum 8/100k extended warranty.

Since the last time I posted there has been an update to my “check abs/ ev system”.
I have been cleared to drive the car away twice and forced to take the car back every time because it lost power IN MOTION and stalled. I spent over 1k in tow/batteries/parts/labor so far, for them to finally diagnose a “DC/DC converter assembly” on the fourth try.
They claim this repair is going to cost 3k (2300/part + 700/labor) and is not covered by warranty. They say they contacted Tesla to aide in diagnosis but can not determine how this part would fail.
I would really appreciate your input on this matter @miimura! Any advice?
There is so much more to the story it’s ridiculous

 

[Deladuty]

Since the last time I posted there has been an update to my “check abs/ ev system”.
I have been cleared to drive the car away twice and forced to take the car back every time because it lost power IN MOTION and stalled. I spent over 1k in tow/batteries/parts/labor so far, for them to finally diagnose a “DC/DC converter assembly” on the fourth try.
They claim this repair is going to cost 3k (2300/part + 700/labor) and is not covered by warranty. They say they contacted Tesla to aide in diagnosis but can not determine how this part would fail.
I would really appreciate your input on this matter @miimura! Any advice?
There is so much more to the story it’s ridiculous

The first three inspections by this certified service department of this certified dealer stated the issue resulted from fuses, then dead battery, then incorrect battery; before this current diagnosis.

 

[miimura]

Since the last time I posted there has been an update to my “check abs/ ev system”.
I have been cleared to drive the car away twice and forced to take the car back every time because it lost power IN MOTION and stalled. I spent over 1k in tow/batteries/parts/labor so far, for them to finally diagnose a “DC/DC converter assembly” on the fourth try.
They claim this repair is going to cost 3k (2300/part + 700/labor) and is not covered by warranty. They say they contacted Tesla to aide in diagnosis but can not determine how this part would fail.
I would really appreciate your input on this matter @miimura! Any advice?
There is so much more to the story it’s ridiculous

If you paid multiple diagnostic fees for the same problem and the dealer won't refund any of them, you should contact the Toyota Customer Experience Center at 800-331-4331 to see if they can do anything.
If you're out of warranty, contact Quick Charge Power at 1-844-387-2787. They can probably get your car fixed for less, even after you have the car towed to their shop in San Marcos (North San Diego County).

 

[SSonnentag]

A used Spark is the best short-range EV for the money. Active battery cooling makes it a battery buy than a used Leaf.

 

[Vinc]

A used Spark is the best short-range EV for the money. Active battery cooling makes it a battery buy than a used Leaf.

Thanks for the advice. I am split between a used Spark EV and a used i3. I leased an i3 and really liked it, but I am afraid that cost of ownership if things go south out of warranty may be much daunting. If your windshield cracks, you can probably get the replacement for a Spark for a song, as opposed to the buckets of money required for the i3's.

 

[AWD>]

Spark EVs are great, but I do love the i3... they just scare me though. So I purchase a Spark EV 2LT.

I replaced the awful sound system with kicker speakers and a powered sub. It’s a fantastic DD. The one I purchased had a squared up wheel set as well, so rotations are easy and use fuel fighter tires.

I went with a ‘14 (larger capacity batt but same range) but the ‘15-16 have more battery availability since more were built. Time will tell with degradation. But the active batt management should help.

Trons and tires, that’s it. I also replaced the lead acid battery. Winter using heat full time, my guess o meter in cold OK bottoms out at 60 miles, but in the summer last year, my rage was over 100 with AC.

Minimal degradation and overall solid, 34k miles as of now. It’ll stream Bluetooth. Only wish was keyless entry, by that I mean, not having to take the fob or phone (app) out of the pocket to push the button. It does have push button start though and preconditioning via app or fob works very well.

Sub 25F
2.8-3.5 miles per kWh winter w/ very liberal heat

40F
4.5 avg with heat and preconditioning

60-90F
6+ avg, 5-6 avg with max AC

A seat pad with cooler fans is also clutch.

Best of luck, PM if you have questions on any mods or the other EVs you’re looking at. I researched them arguably too much.

 

[wycolo]

> And just with insurance cost, even at almost free a Model S would quickly become much more expensive than a fleet of Spark EVs [vinc]

My insurance cost: '14 Spark EV - $270- per 6mo.
'12 MS - $385- per 6 mo.

Looks like pound for pound pricing (Washington State).
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