Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency and Blockchain Discussion Thread

[Words of HABIT]

Interesting thread from the creator of Dogecoin about why he is now anti-crypto in general. Given Elon's love of Doge, I wonder if this will have any influence on Tesla's decision to hold BTC

https://twitter.com/x/status/1415353984617914370

Dogecoin was created as a joke to mock crypto currency. Jackson Palmer was always anti-crypto. In January of this year Dogecoin was one cent, and although it touched close to a dollar a few months back something tells me it is going back to one cent. Of all Tesla's decisions, the one that irks me the most is their foray into crypto currencies. This has been discussed Ad nauseam on this forum, this is simply my opinion, no need to respond.

 

[Skipdd]

What do you think of Square’s latest announcement?

Square Building New Bitcoin-Inspired Financial Services Business

Square Inc. is creating a new business line to help developers build financial services products focused on Bitcoin, according to tweets from Chief Executive Officer Jack Dorsey.

www.bloomberg.com

Sorry - it’s behind a paywall. “Square is building new bitcoin inspired financial services business.”

 

[Xepa777]

Gali from Hyperchange just had a one hour video with the CEO of $15 billion AUM company, Celsius. Fantastic interview. Of all the Tesla Youtubers, Gali has the greatest insight into truly disruptive trends.

 

[daniel]

What do you think of Square’s latest announcement?

Square Building New Bitcoin-Inspired Financial Services Business

Square Inc. is creating a new business line to help developers build financial services products focused on Bitcoin, according to tweets from Chief Executive Officer Jack Dorsey.

www.bloomberg.com

Sorry - it’s behind a paywall. “Square is building new bitcoin inspired financial services business.”

The link works if you have not reached your limit of free articles (whatever that limit may be). But it doesn't say a lot.

Square is "building a hardware wallet" for bitcoin. I have no idea what that means.

One aspect of Square's business is a payments service for small businesses. Maybe you've swiped your credit card through a little reader device plugged into a smartphone, and then signed with your finger on the screen? I have. I'm not surprised if they are extending that service to allow payment in bitcoin, and perhaps eventually into other cryptocurrencies. I doubt the new service will get much use for the simple reason that you don't need Square to trade btc, and that people don't spend bitcoin except on the black market. Most people who have bitcoin are HODLing it, or using it for illegal commerce. That doesn't leave much business for Square.

The article also says that Dorsey is a big supporter of bitcoin .

 

[JRP3]

Gali from Hyperchange just had a one hour video with the CEO of $15 billion AUM company, Celsius. Fantastic interview. Of all the Tesla Youtubers, Gali has the greatest insight into truly disruptive trends.

That was very interesting but he really lost me when he perpetuated the lies about "75% renewable energy" used to mine crypto and his claim that Bitcoin uses less energy than traditional banking.

 

[wdolson]

That was very interesting but he really lost me when he perpetuated the lies about "75% renewable energy" used to mine crypto and his claim that Bitcoin uses less energy than traditional banking.

Like this?
Bitcoin fracking turns waste gas to digital gold in Montana

(joke, sort of)

 

[Skipdd]

The link works if you have not reached your limit of free articles (whatever that limit may be). But it doesn't say a lot.

Square is "building a hardware wallet" for bitcoin. I have no idea what that means.

One aspect of Square's business is a payments service for small businesses. Maybe you've swiped your credit card through a little reader device plugged into a smartphone, and then signed with your finger on the screen? I have. I'm not surprised if they are extending that service to allow payment in bitcoin, and perhaps eventually into other cryptocurrencies. I doubt the new service will get much use for the simple reason that you don't need Square to trade btc, and that people don't spend bitcoin except on the black market. Most people who have bitcoin are HODLing it, or using it for illegal commerce. That doesn't leave much business for Square.

The article also says that Dorsey is a big supporter of bitcoin .

Agree it’s not that informative - was hoping someone on the forum might know more. I suspect the intention is deeper than just accepting/processing bitcoin as a payment option. Thanks.

 

[JRP3]

Over 1,000 Cryptocurrency Rigs Destroyed By Malaysian Authorities Using A Steamroller

Authorities in Malaysia have destroyed 1,069 cryptocurrency rigs after they were confiscated in raids earlier this year. A steamroller was used to crush the hardware in the city of Sarawak, after the electric utility company of the Malaysian province accused the mining operators of stealing...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[MXWing]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1417144324068974594

With BTC at levels where it is now an impairment, even a modest boost will be helpful going into earnings.

 

[Paul_SF]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1417144324068974594

With BTC at levels where it is now an impairment, even a modest boost will be helpful going into earnings.

Maybe Elon wants to tell them Live on stage he sold.

/s

 

[DarkandStormy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1417144324068974594

With BTC at levels where it is now an impairment, even a modest boost will be helpful going into earnings.

Remember when Elon said Bitcoin was an alternative to holding cash?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1386821144037236737

 

[Thekiwi]

Maybe Elon wants to tell them to Live on stage he sold.

/s

We can only hope.

(not sarcasm).

I’m absolutely sick of Tesla earnings been dragged around by that POS faux-“asset“. After already creating a negative contribution for Q2 earnings, BTC is only a small percentage point away from again being a negative for Q3 earnings. It was a turd of a decision for Tesla to buy it, and Elon should reverse it quickly like he did with past decisions that proved wrong - pragmatism is one of his best qualities,

 

[CLK350]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1417144324068974594

With BTC at levels where it is now an impairment, even a modest boost will be helpful going into earnings.

If you already know something about BTC and don't have time for all the tracks, the one where Jack, Elon and Cathie speak openly in a moderated discussion is at 2 PM EST

PS. If anybody knows. I'd like to know if all these sessions will be available (free/ public) in the future

 

[CLK350]

Bitcoin mining is turning a New York lake into a 'hot tub,' says a resident. Here's how.

"The lake is so warm you feel like you're in a hot tub," said a woman who lives near a gas-fired New York plant that powers 8,000 computers mining bitcoins.

www.yahoo.com

The problem is not BTC, it's the inappropriate use of coal/ gas.

Pinpointing/ blaming BTC seems simple ... because it is ... simplistic - then why not ban the use of all (ICE) cars /airplanes /transportation when they're not used for "proper" uses? There goes all the cruise lines (floating pollution /garbage dispensers) too.

 

[CLK350]

Somebody fraudulently (or accidentally?) charged my credit card for several hundred dollars worth of Mary Kay products. I've never bought anything from Mary Kay. I phoned my bank and after they investigated, the money was returned to me. They also had me go through all my recent credit card charges to make sure they were legit. The banking system is designed with consumer protections. It may not always succeed, but its intention is to avoid theft and it is designed for transactions to be traceable.

Cash, gold, even cars can be stolen and might not be recovered. But few people consider these things stores of wealth. There are many ways that thieves can steal stuff and the victims never get it back. But of all the things that can be stolen, crypto is far and away the hardest to recover. It can be stolen from the other side of the globe and it is designed, intentionally, to be untraceable and unrecoverable. If somebody breaks into your house and steals gold, there is at least the possibility that if the police act quickly enough they might catch the burglar with the gold in his possession. With crypto, it's probably in Russia a millisecond after it's stolen.

Gold *is* considered a store of wealth.

How difficult it is to recover stolen "goods" be they gold, cash, cars, digits in your cc balance, BTC, is another matter entirely. And, actually stolen BTC *have* occasionally (when the effort justifies it) been recovered. That was the case of the ransomware thieves who'd successfully got the Eastern gasoline pipeline to pay up (in BTC).
The reason they were able to be recovered is that the thieves had left their BTC in an exchange .. which is like leaving gold in a bank vault.

 

[CLK350]

We can only hope.

(not sarcasm).

I’m absolutely sick of Tesla earnings been dragged around by that POS faux-“asset“. After already creating a negative contribution for Q2 earnings, BTC is only a small percentage point away from again being a negative for Q3 earnings. It was a turd of a decision for Tesla to buy it, and Elon should reverse it quickly like he did with past decisions that proved wrong - pragmatism is one of his best qualities,

I'm not a blind Elon fan - but seriously, remember he literally saw and did *something* about online payments - which were inexistent prior.
Elon thinks in terms of first principles as we know - and he thinks durn well, probably better than most of us. Think back and look at the use of fiat money, especially the USD, historically. Few people really do .. /s

 

[CLK350]

Agree it’s not that informative - was hoping someone on the forum might know more. I suspect the intention is deeper than just accepting/processing bitcoin as a payment option. Thanks.

If you want to know about this, there are plenty of good articles/ tutorials/ YouTube videos on hardware wallets, or BTC in general - the original Satoshi paper is actually best, but there has been plenty written about that is excellent too.

The issue is decentralization of BTC - if it is held in an exchange (like the USD is really held in digital form at various banks, all 'guaranteed' by the Feds), then it is no longer a BTC; it is a certificate from said exchange that you own so many BTC. Just like gold certificates aka shares in GLD etc.

You only need that "proof" that you own BTC and it is in that long set of digits representing the decentralized/ shared public ledger, and it can be either a long paper printout (not really practical), a USB flash drive ... of better, a "hardware wallet".

The right way to do things is to keep some BTC in an exchange, and hold the bulk of it in a hardware wallet; Jack knows this perfectly well.
There are a few reputable hardware wallet suppliers. Having SQ create one would be huge.

As an aside: just like Tesla has its hugely powerful entrenched enemies, BTC has its even more powerful enemies, namely the Federal Reserve apparatus, basically all the traditional banks who haven't done much for the economy* (an euphemism).

(*) In short: buying up real resources from "free" money given as loans they do not intend to pay back. Free as in paid for by taxpayers, aka you and me. If you are wondering how the --- this is all going to end, welcome to the club. Sometimes I wish I didn't know what I know - but then there is always the possibility I'm wrong. At least Tesla is doing something useful/ right, so I have that to cheer me up.

 

[j6Lpi429@3j]

I think describing the bitcoin drop as just a 'paper loss' is a bit of a stretch. Tesla made an investment that has dropped in value. If this had been a new factory, then we could shrug it off because its an income generating asset so the public re-valuation is not that important.
But bitcoin is basically cash. So tesla bought a different currency and its devalued. Thats a loss. Right now, Tesla lost money on bitcoin. Pretending otherwise is unhelpful.
It really was a terrible idea from a PR, financial and environmental POV. The sooner they dump it and move on the better.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

It really was a terrible idea from a PR, financial and environmental POV. The sooner they dump it and move on the better.

Are you saying that looking to secure cash against a 2% yearly inflation, it might be a tad optimistic to see that as achieved by investing in something that often goes up or down 5% daily?

It's a little weird how so many otherwise smart people didn't see the problem.

Now we are stuck with diluting EPS until Tesla eventually sells. If, and that's a big if, they can sell at a profit the same 'investors' that are happily including bitcoin losses in EPS now will then say those earnings 'doesn't count since they are one-offs'.

And all of this was entirely predictable.

 

[j6Lpi429@3j]

oh wow. we are not allowed to discuss bitcoin and the fact it will be a black mark on our investment in the investment thread.
Apparently we can say its great there, but not that its bad. Mods own a lot of bitcoin I assume...
Funny that its now below $30,000. Hopefully will crash to zero soon enough.