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Bitcoins, anyone?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by stealthology, Aug 30, 2013.

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  1. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913

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  2. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    ROFL I just lost 50 BTC on a bad dice roll... FML oh well.

    I Email'd Tesla Motors inquiring whether they accepted Bitcoins for payment. No answer, and it's been over a month :p
     
  3. Johan

    Johan Funds for M3 secured. Contingent on wife aproval.

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    You mean you had it deposited with Silk Road and now the FBI have it? :)
     
  4. W.Petefish

    W.Petefish Active Member

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    The answer is a simple no. I asked.
     
  5. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018

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    Large bitcoin heist from an online wallet service: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24871444

    This is a major problem with bitcoin. If a credit card or bank account is fraudulently used, the transaction can be easily reversed if caught. Bitcoin offers no similar security.
     
  6. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    No, I'm afraid that it's with real money you're going to have to Pay, Pal. :)
     
  7. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    TradeFortress always was a but shady to me, ever since he stated posting from day 1 on BitcoinTalk. There's a reason why the site admin removed him from the DefaultTrust list (there's only about dozen of us on the DT list and we've all dissociated ourselves from TradeFortress long ago). He seemed like the kind of guy who knew just enough to be dangerous when it came to site design, and for that reason alone I stayed clear of CoinLenders.

    - - - Updated - - -

    IMHO Bitcoin, in its current iteration, might better serve as a transport-layer currency with consumer protection built into tools that ride on a layer above it. In fact I believe there are several ideas being developed that would put a buffer between the honest consumer and fraudsters looking to scam people.
     
  8. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

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    #28 deonb, Nov 12, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
    Hard to say.

    Credit Card companies form such a buffer between buyer / seller, but because it's out of your hand there are all sorts of ways that you can get scammed (from both sides). Fake charges to the buyer, fake rollbacks to the seller. The chargeback system just divides the problem more evenly between buyers and sellers, but it's still a problem. The Credit Card system is definitely not an ideal system for the internet.

    The finality of the BitCoin transaction makes things much better suited for the internet. There is no such thing as a fake charge, since the buyer controls who they send money to. And from a seller perspective, no such thing as a fake rollback. I remember trying to accept credit cards over the internet to sell phone cards a couple of decades ago. The credit card companies would just refuse to even make that transaction because of the massive amount of fraud in that space. However, I would not even think twice about allowing payment in BitCoin for such a transaction.

    Once you add a middle man, you're starting to move back over to the Credit Card model. And in fact, this theft took place because of exactly such a middle man (online wallet).

    People just need to use offline wallets. There's no reasonable way in a 4-dimensional universe* to crack a wallet private key (There is not enough energy in the solar system to crack even a single BitCoin wallet). However, the moment you trust the key to somewhere on the cloud you open yourself up to problems.


    * Once quantum computers start approaching 128-bits, start selling BitCoin.
     
  9. Mario Kadastik

    Mario Kadastik Active Member

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    BTC is already at $450 / BTC. It has gone up so fast that I think it's another April bubble somewhat. However as it's hard to know the exact underlying cause it's hard to predict the top or how far it'll fall. From the ca $250 top in April it fell back to ~$120 firstly, hovered a while and then visited $60 before stabilizing around $100 for many months. Now we've had an exponential growth from 100 to 450 over the past months with most of the gain coming in the past week or two. I've been contemplating converting some BTC to USD and hold the USD at the exchange (because withdrawals are slow and cause tax issues) and if it does correct down, then buy back BTC and if not, well then withdraw the funds ;) But bitstamp that I had been using has started to ask for user verification and the utility bill is starting to become a real issue because in Estonia THERE ARE NO PAPER BILLS! It's been at least 4-5 years since I last got a bill in my snail mail box. How the F am I to prove residence if there is no way to prove. Also the goernmental proof documents are sent digitally signed over e-mail (or well you can check an online registry). I have to actually go to a bank and ask them to send me something on paper or ask my gas company if I can pay extra to get one bill as physical paper and probably they have to do it manually because the infrastructure for paper bills almost doesn't exist anymore. Grr....
     
  10. Mario Kadastik

    Mario Kadastik Active Member

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    And we've hit $675 now :)
     
  11. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    I just wish Porsche would stop dragging their feet on the 991 GT2 RS. My coins are ready!
     
  12. TSLAopt

    TSLAopt Active Member

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    900, wow! This looks like another bubble but not risking just in case it's not...this is not a stock, this is something very different. If it is to become mainstream as a commodity/currency, it could easily reach 100,000 per Bitcoin within a few years. There are 12 million Bitcoin in existence, then the market cap is 12 billion ata price of 1000. The total market cap I could see reaching 1 trillion in a few years if it becomes mainstream and legitimized by US lawmakers with these hearings going on.
    All the gold in the world currently mined Warren Buffets estimates is worth abut 10 trillion USD...I could see Bitcoin reaching 1/10th of golds market cap within a few years.
    also keep in mind that perhaps 10-25% of Bitcoin has probably been lost for good by the early miners who thought it was worthless or gave it away to people who didnt care, etc.
     
  13. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

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    That's $900 on MtGox though. I don't know what the virtue is of MtGox. What do you do with the USD after you converted your BTC to USD on there?
     
  14. treehugger350

    treehugger350 Member

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  15. TD1

    TD1 Member

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    Regarding Quantum Computers.
    This is a very educated Talk about the possible impact of quantum computers on the Bitcoin network.
    Quantum Computing and Bitcoin (Vitalik Buterin, November 2013) - YouTube

    cliffs:
    Even if we can build quantum computers (not sooner then 20-30 years) there are already solutions to that that can be implemented in the Bitcoin network if needed to.
    And "D-Wave", the quantum Computer that we hear so often about in the media, is not a real quantum computer, its the simulation of a quantum computer.
     
  16. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    Question from a merchant:

    I spent a little over a decade refusing to work with credit cards, after having lost a battle with Visa in the late 90s over a fraudulent transaction for which they left me on the hook. My tourist business in Alaska hardly suffered, but eventually - after we were able to obtain significantly lower transaction fees - we re-entered the Dark Side and now get somewhere over 80% of our revenue from guests paying with credit cards.

    But I still don't like it...

    So, on to Bitcoins. Perhaps the Bitcoin universe could whittle down our embrace of credit cards? That suggests a few questions:

    1. How might I as a vendor set up acceptance of them?

    2. How might I as a responsible organization properly account for such transactions come Income Tax time (subquestion: how do I find a toupee for my thus-hairless accountant??? ;) )

    3. Am I correct in assuming I would have the alternative of (a) selling my stash of Bitcoins (to whom?) in return for US dollars, etc., OR (b) finding items to purchase with Bitcoins (like what?)
     
  17. TSLAopt

    TSLAopt Active Member

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    I haven't and won't for a long long time, if ever.
    Im taking the chance the Bitcoin will go up exponentially until it replaces Gold decades from now....and then actual cash currency it will replace.
    If I was to convert my BTC to cash now or anytime soon I'll have to pay taxes on it and don't want to do that since in the future I think I'll just be able to buy anything I want with those Bitcoin.
     
  18. TD1

    TD1 Member

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    #38 TD1, Nov 21, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
    Accept Bitcoin | BitPay

    I think that should be the best solution for a merchant right now.
    You can choose between 1% transaction fee with no running costs or 30$ monthly fee, and two other options which are only interesting for really big merchants.

    For point 2 if you are skeptical to bitcoins und just want to accept them but not keep them. with bitpay you have the option to exchange the bitcoins automatically and instantly when the transaction occurs at the live exchangerate. Bitpay will sent you the payment to your bank account on a daily basis. Chargebacks for your customers are impossible.
    So the tax situation should be the same as usual for that scenario.

    Im not sure how exactly it works out in the US if you want to keep the bitcoins, in Germany its treated exactly the same as money "unit of account" but maybe US is different it that regard, you can ask bitpay.


    Point 3.
    There will be more and more businesses accepting bitcoin in the future, again Im not clear about the US, but afaik some subways accept bitcoin.
    Its a little bit like the chicken and the egg problem right now.


    But people should see that there are no downsides to accept bitcoin, its free of charge, and no running costs. So worst can happen that your customers don't use it. Best that more and more people start using it and the merchants get rid of the ridicules Visa and Mastercard fees that are discriminating small business and have to pay 5%+ in fees.


    *Im not working for bitpay, you can also look at Bitcoin Wallet - Coinbase they have the same business model around bitcoins.
    My motivation is ideology, same reason Im a big believer in Tesla

    Of course you can also just setup an own wallet, completely for free.
     
  19. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    I get a

    500 Internal Server Error

    on every page of Bitpay's website....??????

    No such problem when exploring the Coinbase website.
     
  20. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    Try again. It works for me now, so it might have been a temporary thing.
     

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