Total or as a % of GDP? As a % of GDP, the US has barely dangled a toe in the water.
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BMW Active E
- Thread starter dpeilow
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Of course total. Indexing by GDP (and other ways of normalization, for example looking at percentage of a car market being EVs) is largely irrelevant if volume is the goal.
For example, Tesla targets 20k annual volume with the Model S. Hypothetically, Tesla can accomplish that goal by being 0.1% of the new car market in the US (roughly 17 million vehicles sold annually in 2009) or 20% of the new car market in Norway (roughly 100,000 new vehicles sold annually in 2009).
I certainly realize there are countries like Norway, where enthusiasm, the market, subsidies, etc for EVs is much higher than the US if you look at it in proportion (to the population, the size of the car market, GDP, etc), but that's not really what I was looking at.
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BMW nailed the debate over creep/no-creep alleged safety issue by offering no-creep with automatic shut off if you get out whilst in drive. Really well done.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
From what I know, creep in automatic cars is not a safety feature at all (as described in the video), but rather a side-effect of the torque converter (many "modern" automatics don't have it because many are dual clutch automatics or CVTs, eliminating the need for a torque converter, although some CVTs add one just to have creep). The main advantage of creep for me is it makes parking, hilly areas, and stop-and-go traffic easier for me. But I don't see it has a huge safety feature or as something completely necessary.
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Oh, it absolutely is, but when asking Tesla "why did you program the car to drive off by itself" they said that it was to simulate a typical car and for safety so that you have to keep your foot on the brake at stop lights. Whilst that's a fair recommendation for safety, I just don't think that you need it. I find that the creep makes it difficult to maneuver at slow speed, just try moving the car forward an inch - you can't as, unlike an old automatic that always pushes forwards because it can't properly 'de-clutch', allowing you to modulate the brake to move the car, the Tesla waits a moment after you've released the brake completely before switching the motor on pushing you forward at a fixed rate. As for hill starts, the Tesla fails at that, it's fixed torque doesn't behave the same as an oil torque converter that resists rolling backwards. The MINI E and ActiveE both have hill assist holds the brakes on for a second after you release if you're on a hill; a far better and smoother driving experience.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I think the former (to simulate a typical car) was probably a much larger factor than the latter (for safety). I think the safety explanation for auto creep was just introduced as a way present creep as a "feature" rather than a side-effect (that some people prefer and some people don't). But I didn't realize some of the imperfections of Tesla's auto creep implementation (if you can't easily modulate creep like on an auto, it may become more of a hindrance than a convenience in parking). Hopefully the Model S is an improvement (if it has creep at all).
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If, as we've heard, Tesla is going to make the degree of regen a user-selectable option, why not creep?
I think MPT is correct, that BMW's solution for this is spot on. I hope the model S will do this as well.
tommolog
Member
I don't believe BMW has decided 100% if the electrics they sell will have a slight creep or not. Like the MINI-E program, they are CLOSLEY monitoring the customer comments about what they like and don't like. Rest assured Michaels comments and this video have already made their way to Munich.
siry
Member
tommolog
Member
Yes, all the cars are the same alpine white with white leather accented with blue stitching and the circuit board stickers are factory installed. If you don't like them, you can request the dealer take some/all of them off and they will. I had been vocal criticizing them, and ordered the car with the stickers removed. However I received the first one in a ceremony with the BMW President giving me the keys so I got the car directly from BMW, not the dealership and now that I have it in person I don't mind them. I may take some of them off myself and leave the majority of them though. It's one of those things that you just need to see in person. Another guy that has one in California said the same thing and he's going to leave them on now that he has it.
I've applied to lease the BMW Active E in California last week and was thinking of leasing it for the next 24 months until the Model S sedan is available. I'm now scheduled for a home inspection for charger installation. I also have a deposit on the new Toyota RAV4EV which has the Tesla drivetrain and is scheduled to be available this coming summer. How would you compare the drivetrain and battery pack between the Active E and what has been released about the RAV4EV? Sounds like both vehicles will have a maximum range of 100 miles or less. This is the exact distance to and from my Dad's house so I'm disappointed that the single charge mileage is still not in the 150 mile plus range. Would you advise waiting for the Model S since it will ultimately be the vehicle that meets my mileage requirements?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
If you make that trip regularly, it's probably a better idea to wait (esp. in the RAV4EV case since the wait will be even shorter). Although if you have a second car, you can probably still make do with an EV with shorter range in the mean time. But don't expect to be able to drive the exact advertised range every time (the EPA range will probably be lower, and the range you get on the highway might be lower than that depending on conditions).
I am in the same position with the S, the Rav4 on order. I contemplated the Active E also, but opted to bypass this car due to the delivery of the Rav 4, in about 5 months, then the S in about 9 months. If I get the active E also, then I have too many cars for my use in the last year of the lease and I would not drive it as it should be to give BMW the feedback they need to advance the design. Long and short I opted to drive the gas guzzlers for a few more months, as tempting as it was to get one sooner.
tommolog
Member
Bluehorizan: If you need to make that trip on a regular basis, I would probably say the ActiveE might not be the right choice for you. I've had mine for a little less than two weeks now and I'm seeing about 80mpc. Granted, I'm driving in 20 degree weather in the snow here in NJ and using the heat and seat heaters all the time. My friends in CA that got their cars last week are reporting 100mpc if they use the Eco-Pro mode which reduces the power to the motor and cabin heating and cooling. It still has good acceleration in Eco Pro mode and that surprised me so there isn't much reason not to use it especially if you plan on a long trip. I would guess in mild temperatures you could make the 100 mile journey as long as you didn't exceed 70mph for too long. However, you'd probably be pushing it if you did this on a consistent basis.
Other than that, it's been a great EV so far. It's hauntingly quiet in the cabin, much quieter than any EV I've driven (Roadster, LEAF, Volt, iMiev, MINI-E) and offers a great, smooth ride. The MINI-E was a lot of fun to drive, but you felt every pavement wrinkle, and was the only reason my wife didn't enjoy driving in it.
Other than that, it's been a great EV so far. It's hauntingly quiet in the cabin, much quieter than any EV I've driven (Roadster, LEAF, Volt, iMiev, MINI-E) and offers a great, smooth ride. The MINI-E was a lot of fun to drive, but you felt every pavement wrinkle, and was the only reason my wife didn't enjoy driving in it.
I'd bet that 100mi is easy to do in the BMW Active E if you limit speeds to 60 mph and minimize use of HVAC. The fun part will be trying to get fully recharged at your Dad's house if you only have 120V available there. You're probably looking at 25 hours to recharge from near empty to near full, so unless you're there for the whole weekend and don't drive the car much, time will be tight.
I don't know what kind of portable charge cord BMW gives you, but for about $1000 you could get the portable EVSE that ships with the LEAF upgraded to handle 240V and 16A then plug into a dryer plug, or for about the same amount you can get a number of wall-mount L2 EVSEs and get that installed at your Dad's house.
As both a LEAF and a Model S reservation holder, I hadn't paid the Active E much attention. But Friday when they opened reservations I decided to apply--I've already got an AV charger in anticipation of the LEAF's arrival, and I prefer the styling and larger battery size of the Active E over the LEAF. Went down to the BMW dealer on Sunday, looked at the car (didn't get a chance to drive it, alas), and signed the lease papers. Guess I'm lucky, because I was accepted. On a two year lease it's cheaper than the LEAF (due to the residual being so large), and I was planning to lease the LEAF, so this was quite serendipitous.
After studying the MNL range and cold weather threads, I have convinced myself I can just make my 65 mile highway commute in a LEAF in the New England cold if I preheated, ran the HVAC only for short bursts for defrosting, and kept under 60 MPH. While there's way less real world data on the Active E, with it's larger battery capacity and active thermal management I am hoping that I'll actually be able to run the heater and travel at the posted speed limit. While both cars claim a "100 mile" range, I'm wagering the Active E will get 80ish miles in the cold where the LEAF gets 60ish.
No, it isn't a Model S, but it's gonna give me some fun while I wait.
After studying the MNL range and cold weather threads, I have convinced myself I can just make my 65 mile highway commute in a LEAF in the New England cold if I preheated, ran the HVAC only for short bursts for defrosting, and kept under 60 MPH. While there's way less real world data on the Active E, with it's larger battery capacity and active thermal management I am hoping that I'll actually be able to run the heater and travel at the posted speed limit. While both cars claim a "100 mile" range, I'm wagering the Active E will get 80ish miles in the cold where the LEAF gets 60ish.
No, it isn't a Model S, but it's gonna give me some fun while I wait.
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