BMW I3 and Chevy Bolt versus the M3

[afadeev]

But also the most affordable when leasing...

Leasing the tesla is nonsense as their rates are very high.
Chevy *doesn't* credit the full $7500 tax credit to the lease (only half of it), and the residuals are mostly correct (the car won't be worth much in 3 years), so the payments end up very high.
BMW *does* credit the full $7500 tax credit to the lease, and the residuals are all kinds of messed up...They think the vehicle will still be worth $30K at the end of the lease...which makes the payments MUCH MUCH less.

I cross shopped the i3 and the Bolt. The lease payments on the i3 were over $150 less per month.

Exactly.

If you are leasing (for any combination of reasons), Tesla is the worst and most expensive EV choice, while BMW i3 is the most affordable EV. Courtesy of BMW's artificially high residual "subsidy".

If you are buying, Tesla is the most obvious and affordable choice, i3 is the most expensive and the one with the highest depreciation. Bolt is in the middle in both scenarios.

Yes, the cars are different in many ways, and all of us on this forum have the obvious preference for Model 3, else we would be having this discussion on a Bolt or i3 forum.

All in all, the more EVs on the market - the merrier!

I agree with most of the comments here. The i3 was my first EV. I loved it. Sure it wasn't great for long distance trips - although I did them. Highway skitti-ness was poor over 55 mph and the suicide doors were a bit of a pain at times.

I had two i3's as well, my first EV, and have fond memories of them.
Those suicide doors were tolerable, but as kids grew, rear seats became a show stopper.


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[Dan123]

Not completely true on vampire drain... If you are in a hot climate it will cool its battery when hot.

It has to be really hot. I live in southern Florida, and in a year, I had only one day when it turned on battery conditioning.

Tesla uses 1% of the battery daily, no matter what the temperature is.

 

[aerodyne]

Doesn't that issue about regening down to zero mph go away, if;

1) You have TACC on, following traffic
2 Creep mode off

 

[Dan123]

Doesn't that issue about regening down to zero mph go away, if;

1) You have TACC on, following traffic
2 Creep mode off

Yes, but what about all the other times when you need to stop at a light, at a stop sign, while doing a left turn? TACC not particularly useful in a city environment where there are a lot of other reasons to slow down or stop, besides the car in front of you.

 

[Uncle Paul]

G/F bought an i3 last year. Economics were pretty wacky. Car listed about $50,000 but SCE had a $10,000 instant rebate (paid for by BMW). Then got $2,500 back from California, $1,000 back for installing a garage charger, $800 for buying an electric plug in vehicle plus $7,500 tax credit that she used. Made it about a $30,000 car. For that, it was well priced.

She zips all over town in it. Quiet, nimble and efficient. It has a little 600cc scooter range extender that takes away range anxiety. It is fun to drive and she actually likes the black/red two tone look.

On the other hand, it is no where near the car that is the Tesla Model 3. No supercharging, lousy to drive at highway speeds, not fast like a Model 3, and does not have that low center of gravity that makes the Tesla so much fun to drive. The funny rear doors are a pain when taking another couple out to dinner, and the high floor makes getting in and out clumbsy. Believe it is at the end of it's run.

 

[aerodyne]

Wow!... She done good... can she sell it and get an M3 with all that money she saved?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Her plan is to drive it until the Model Y becomes available. Resale values on i3 are very low. She got free charging for the first 2 years included, as well as most all maintenance. It takes up very little space in our garage. Only slightly more than our 4 seater golf cart.

One of her friends just got a new Model 3. She wishes she had waited and is pretty jealous of it.

 

[aerodyne]

That's even better! Y not?

 

[Kai]

We own a Tesla Model S and I have a Model Y on deposit. I have also leased an i3, loved driving it, but ditched it early because it was just too small for four adults & cargo. Then we leased a Chevy Bolt. It has more usual space both for people and cargo than the i3 and way more range. My wife and I both really love the Bolt. It's great for going to the grocery store, running errands, and doing about anything. I don't agree that it's an ugly car. It's not gorgeous, but certainly not ugly. I also don't agree that it's uncomfortable. I'm 6'4" and the seats feel great to me. Lots of bolster support and just generally a good feel. Our Bolt charges up to 260+ miles, although we don't usually charge it full. And we have heated steering wheel and heated front and back seats. The Chevy Bolt is not a Tesla. Not in the same class. But it's a great car for what it is. We may very well buy it when the lease expires. These evaluations of cars are very subjective. Just goes to show you, you've got to see and drive the car before you'll know if it's right for you!

 

[DWhatley]

I thought I would miss the i3's regen braking to full stop, but the change was easy to make. Tesla's method of brake "auto-holding" whenever stopped is one of my favorite features. It makes so much sense not to hold the brake while waiting to resume moving.

I wish the "hold" function was automatic if you come to a full stop. Coming from a hilly (approaching mountainous) terrain and a 5 speed standard shift, this is a loved feature but I cannot think of any reason it should not be automatic (vs holding down the brake) or why an option would be desired. It already sort of works this way if you are stopping with adaptive cruise.

 

[Evoforce]

It has to be really hot. I live in southern Florida, and in a year, I had only one day when it turned on battery conditioning.

Tesla uses 1% of the battery daily, no matter what the temperature is.

It happens with Bolt often in Metro Arizona!

 

[MXWing]

We have multiple Tesla's at home and have leased an i3. The X and 3 are great but there is a place for the i3. The i3 has tons of promotions and we scored an undeniably good deal on it. 50k msrp but we spent $4850 total for the entire 30 month 12k mile / year lease which equates to $160 a month. Cheapest model 3 with 10k miles is over $650 to lease after accounting down payment and taxes. Simply cannot touch it at that price.

Cheapest Model 3 with unlimited miles is 250-350 per month if you sell after 24 months for 25K.

I go over EXACT out the door numbers here:

Irritated after 4 days of SR ownership.

 

[bshap73]

But also the most affordable when leasing...

Leasing the tesla is nonsense as their rates are very high.
Chevy *doesn't* credit the full $7500 tax credit to the lease (only half of it), and the residuals are mostly correct (the car won't be worth much in 3 years), so the payments end up very high.
BMW *does* credit the full $7500 tax credit to the lease, and the residuals are all kinds of messed up...They think the vehicle will still be worth $30K at the end of the lease...which makes the payments MUCH MUCH less.

I cross shopped the i3 and the Bolt. The lease payments on the i3 were over $150 less per month.

We got the other half of the $7500 come tax time on our Bolt lease... but its a credit, so if you don't owe enough taxes to make use of it, then it doesn't help.

 

[ammulder]

Cheapest Model 3 with unlimited miles is 250-350 per month if you sell after 24 months for 25K.

My concern with that analysis is the sale value. If the up-front price is on the order of 30K after state+federal tax incentives, are you really going to be able to resell it for 25K for it after 2 years? (Especially having put "unlimited miles" on it?) That seems optimistic.

 

[MXWing]

My concern with that analysis is the sale value. If the up-front price is on the order of 30K after state+federal tax incentives, are you really going to be able to resell it for 25K for it after 2 years? (Especially having put "unlimited miles" on it?) That seems optimistic.

Oh you can definitely trust my analytical ability with finances.

-I'm Asian
-I'm an Economist
-I'm practically Jewish, with exception of a theology disagreement (the Messiah already came imho)
-I negotiate for a living
-I find extra deductions my CPA didn’t.

Your out the door cost is more like 39,500 for a new SR today. when you account for taxes, registration and delivery.

The 35K SR will be gone, making the low end $39,500 starting for SR+. You are 45K all in. Only significant difference is you get basic AP.

$3,750, and $1,875 tax credits are expected to be gone in two years.

Buyer has no waiting time for Federal or State incentives and does not tie up any funds. Less loan required, less interest, lower forgone opportunity costs of money.

They are getting a Model 3 OTD for probably $27K, with 50% of time warranty intact, possibly more on batteries.

27K(no autopilot) vs 45K(unknown incentives)

So yes, $25,000 seems very realistic to me. Unlimited miles really means you can drive as much as you want - or as little as you want. If you drove it 1000 miles in two years, you will get more than $25,000. If you drove 40,000 miles, you wont get $25,000 but you'll get $20,000 possibly.

With a lease, 1000 miles means dead money. 40,000 miles, you should have bought the car to begin with.

 

[Rottenapplr]

I went to a road trip my 2nd day with a tesla up and down central California. Tons of tesla model 3 and model s. No bolts no leaf no i3 was ever seen. Just shows you why tesla is the number one all around choice. It’s usable on road trips! If I didn’t drive so much. I’d get rid of my beater the Prius. The tesla can be my only car.

 

[turtlesz]

Cheapest Model 3 with unlimited miles is 250-350 per month if you sell after 24 months for 25K.

I go over EXACT out the door numbers here:

Irritated after 4 days of SR ownership.

Fully agree with you and it's by far the smarter way to go. However for many they just look at a monthly payment and to finance the Model 3 it will still be a high number. Some people don't want to pay now and get money back in the future, they want instant gratification. Congrats again on your purchase, hell of a deal for so much car.

 

[Sans-gas]

As a good consumer I have been doing some car comparison. The 3 cars (electric) that I test drove are the Chevy Bolt, BMW I3, and of course the M3.

The I3 is very small I was a bit taken aback when I saw it up close. I almost considered it a waste of my time even being there at the dealership. But after spending some minutes walking around, opening and shutting doors and hoods, I got use to it. And people are right. Inside, it feels much bigger. I think it is due to a light interior and very little room behind the second seat is hidden.

I like the exterior design of the outer car and feel the back suicide doors are very usable. The hatch room in the back is small and thankfully the space expands quite a bit when folding down the second row. I don't care for the carbon plastic interior. This car didn't have the wood accents and I think it would look very nice on this car. Too bad BMW didn't add it to all their I3’s

The sprint from a stand still is very, very good. It is an electric car so... of course. The regenerative pedal is very aggressive and instantly liked the feel of it. Very, very cool. The I3 did well going over the bumps and grooves in the road despite those odd skinny tires. Noise level reduction in the interior is good. This car is sneaky fast. True testament to engineering that the car handles just as well going 70 as 45 miles per hour. But with the I3 narrow stature, short battery range, and its skinny unique tires kill any idea of a long road trip. It is design for urban driving and would be a poor choice if you want short weekend jaunts.

The Chevy Bolt is GM’s answer to the Tesla. It is reported that it cost much more to produce than the msrp price. The first thing you notice is just how ugly the car is. Step inside and it doesn't get much better. Front wheel drive robs some of the fun of driving an electric car. Anytime you punch it the front tires spin. It is quick though and a bit quicker than the I3. I thought cornering was not that great and felt almost suv -ish. Granted, it is not a sports car but I expected a bit better. It was wet and tested the handling by taking the some corners hard. I could not get the back end to slide. I am thinking this car is probably does better in wet and snowy conditions than most cars. I went over several speed bumps and it handle them very well. The turning radius is fantastic. The seats are bad, very uncomfortable. I cannot believe someone actually thought that adding these car seats was a good idea.

The Chevy Bolt is a very ugly car, inside and out. Front wheel drive ruins the experience of driving an electric car. Hats off to the engineering team for making it quick and having the range of 238 miles, though. But Cheap materials and aesthetics just ruins this car. GM, after all these years still cannot create a design that is comparable to Europeans cars?

The M3 basically beats these two contenders on all points. Now if Tesla can learn how to run an effective market campaign...

As a good consumer I have been doing some car comparison. The 3 cars (electric) that I test drove are the Chevy Bolt, BMW I3, and of course the M3.

The I3 is very small I was a bit taken aback when I saw it up close. I almost considered it a waste of my time even being there at the dealership. But after spending some minutes walking around, opening and shutting doors and hoods, I got use to it. And people are right. Inside, it feels much bigger. I think it is due to a light interior and very little room behind the second seat is hidden.

I like the exterior design of the outer car and feel the back suicide doors are very usable. The hatch room in the back is small and thankfully the space expands quite a bit when folding down the second row. I don't care for the carbon plastic interior. This car didn't have the wood accents and I think it would look very nice on this car. Too bad BMW didn't add it to all their I3’s

The sprint from a stand still is very, very good. It is an electric car so... of course. The regenerative pedal is very aggressive and instantly liked the feel of it. Very, very cool. The I3 did well going over the bumps and grooves in the road despite those odd skinny tires. Noise level reduction in the interior is good. This car is sneaky fast. True testament to engineering that the car handles just as well going 70 as 45 miles per hour. But with the I3 narrow stature, short battery range, and its skinny unique tires kill any idea of a long road trip. It is design for urban driving and would be a poor choice if you want short weekend jaunts.

The Chevy Bolt is GM’s answer to the Tesla. It is reported that it cost much more to produce than the msrp price. The first thing you notice is just how ugly the car is. Step inside and it doesn't get much better. Front wheel drive robs some of the fun of driving an electric car. Anytime you punch it the front tires spin. It is quick though and a bit quicker than the I3. I thought cornering was not that great and felt almost suv -ish. Granted, it is not a sports car but I expected a bit better. It was wet and tested the handling by taking the some corners hard. I could not get the back end to slide. I am thinking this car is probably does better in wet and snowy conditions than most cars. I went over several speed bumps and it handle them very well. The turning radius is fantastic. The seats are bad, very uncomfortable. I cannot believe someone actually thought that adding these car seats was a good idea.

The Chevy Bolt is a very ugly car, inside and out. Front wheel drive ruins the experience of driving an electric car. Hats off to the engineering team for making it quick and having the range of 238 miles, though. But Cheap materials and aesthetics just ruins this car. GM, after all these years still cannot create a design that is comparable to Europeans cars?

The M3 basically beats these two contenders on all points. Now if Tesla can learn how to run an effective market campaign...

 

[Watts_Up]

The M3 basically beats these two contenders on all points.
Now if Tesla can learn how to run an effective market campaign...

The i3 and the Bolt both are hatchback compare to the Model 3 which is a sedan.
This can be a issue until the Model Y get available.

They are also shorter,thus easier to park in a city.
I heard from Elon Musk that a smaller and cheaper Tesla 2 (?)

 

[MXWing]

Finally got around to reading the rest of the thread and it’s depressing to read about people’s capital, credit, and garages filled with inferior, no liquidity goods that should have been Model 3s.

Value is what you get, not what you pay.

When BMW gives you an i3 at 50 percent off MSRP that’s not value. They have no way to get rid of it otherwise.

The i3 buyer who falls into that trap will likewise have issues unloading the i3 because it carries no extrinsic value.

The Model 3 SR is half off the 3P yet carries much of the desirability of its top end sibling.

That is what we call true value.

BMW is not a charity. They gave you a cheap i3 to dump it on you.

Tesla is not a charity. They gave you a cheap SR because it would have cost them more to make cloth seats and solid roofs.