BMW i3

[roblab]

I really dislike this simplistic averaging to tell me how many miles of autonomy my car should have.

The average height of men is only 5' 10", so lets build 6 foot tall doors concept.

And the average person only uses 25 horsepower to drive down the freeway. Note how BMW cuts the size of the engines for average use. NOT. They are being disingenuous saying they size batteries because we only need 35 miles per day. It's because they are cheap, and think that if they give bigger batteries the price will go up too much (partly because they use the outdated Dealer Sales Model which adds 20% to every car price).

They cannot compete with Tesla.

By the way, I just noticed that the i8 only has a 7.2 kW battery, giving the car a whopping 20 miles of range before the gas engine must cut in. For the bargain price of only $136,000. You would think for that price they could have made a true BMW electric, but it flies in the face of their last century business model of making inefficient gas engine vehicles, which they cannot change without going out of business.

The BMW logo is a stylized propeller, as BMW started out making engines for German airplanes. It was not until about 50 years ago that they began pushing the "ultimate driving machine", and when I rode in one of the first in our town, I was unimpressed. Nothing special, not great cornering, not great power, actually rather boxy and ugly. German engineering. OK. Ho hum.

 

[surfingslovak]

And the average person only uses 25 horsepower to drive down the freeway.

If you are referring to the REx, then I'm afraid that you likely don't understand its design and how it works. Also, it's not 25 hp, but 25 kW, which is a significant difference.

The roundel, as it's called here in the US, started with Rapp, which supplied engines for the aviation industry. When the company changed its name from Rapp Motorenwerke to Bayerische Motorenwerke, they adopted a modified Bavarian flag for the background of the roundel, and later accepted the rationalization that it was a spinning propeller. You are obviously entitled to your opinion and rationalizations about the i3 and the company itself.

As I mentioned in a related discussion upthread, having another EV on the market in itself is a good thing, and BMW marketing dollars will help the EV movement. Whether you agree with their messaging, what the press says, and if you ultimately might want to consider purchasing the i3 is another matter. There are precious few traditional automakers with an EV program worth mentioning.

Tesla clearly leads the charge, but will not be able to supply the cars for every need and pocketbook, at least not for the foreseeable future. Why the hate?

 

[MarkR]

I am really grateful that the traditional automakers are entering the EV market. It is good for the environment, it is great to have competition, it will continue to push innovation, and cars like the i3 and i8 will push the styling envelope so that Gen3 will be a car that everyone will want to own & drive. I reserved my MS in October of 2009 because I wanted to support Eco-friendly innovation and I couldn't be more pleased.

While my wife is on her sixth or seventh 3-series and I have lots of respect for BMW, I can't imagine buying an i3. It is, however, an important development for BMW and seriously good car for city-centric driving.

 

[dennis]

I think this is one of the primary reasons why we ended up with a 21.6 kWh battery, and the world has yet another sub-100-miles EV.

I believe it is about cost, not about average commutes.

You can't put a 40 or 50 kwh battery in a car and sell it for a profit at $45K. No car manufacturer can at the present time, including Tesla (the 60kwh Model S is priced at $70K before rebates). The 2 cylinder range extender in the i3 is a much less costly way of potentially doubling the range.

 

[surfingslovak]

I believe it is about cost, not about average commutes.

You can't put a 40 or 50 kwh battery in a car and sell it for a profit at $45K. No car manufacturer can at the present time, including Tesla (the 60kwh Model S is priced at $70K before rebates). The 2 cylinder range extender in the i3 is a much less costly way of potentially doubling the range.

The REx option will reportedly cost about $3,800 in the US. The corresponding battery would go for about twice as much, based on BMW's internal cost, which was reported in the press recently. That said, some of us would have been content if they had offered 50% more battery capacity at the same cost and weight penalty like the REx. I think a 30 kWh battery in an efficient city car with quick charging would work just as well, but here we are.

 

[mdh]

I was at the Frankfurt Motor Show for the last 2 days. I have a journalist pass, so I was able to get a ride in the i3 as a passenger.
BMW had various i3s there. Unfortunately I could not get behind the steering wheel, yet.

The design is truly unique, in-and outside. People will either love or hate it. This is no ordinary car and to my eyes it’s looks rather futuristic. The visibility is great, the turning cycle extremely small. Still it’s not a classic BMW handling machine. It’s just entirely different.

I was impressed by the acceleration. It’s no Tesla rival obviously. But you feel the lightweight concept. It’s much faster than a Volt, Leaf or Renault Zoe. Even a 220hp Golf GTI will have a hard time to follow this car up to 120 kph. For sure a lot of people will have fun with it. And I also liked the way the small engine sang in the back.

I was expecting more range however. Under realtime conditions they had app. 150km range. That is not a lot. Of course, they had many demo acc. runs and stop go. Still, should be interesting to see what the Tesla can achieve in that driving environment.

Still for the money it’s a convincing package if you want to go electric.

What did you think of the car's looks? I think it is a bit odd looking... but, I had similar thoughts re the Prius.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I believe it is about cost, not about average commutes.

You can't put a 40 or 50 kwh battery in a car and sell it for a profit at $45K.

You can get pretty close though. Tack another $10k worth of 24kWh battery into the Leaf and you end up with a $38k car.

I think the issue is the tech the large automakers are using. It's simply not energy dense enough.

But I agree with surfingslovak, if they just offer 50% more battery (10kWh more, which would cost about $4k for BMW) in the space that the Rex uses, I think that would appeal to a lot more people and set the car apart from the other EVs.

 

[gnelson]

You can get pretty close though. Tack another $10k worth of 24kWh battery into the Leaf and you end up with a $38k car.

I think the issue is the tech the large automakers are using. It's simply not energy dense enough.

But I agree with surfingslovak, if they just offer 50% more battery (10kWh more, which would cost about $4k for BMW) in the space that the Rex uses, I think that would appeal to a lot more people and set the car apart from the other EVs.

It has already been set apart from other EV's with its terrible performance. More battery won't help the performance.

 

[brianman]

I really dislike this simplistic averaging to tell me how many miles of autonomy my car should have.

And that "thou shalt be limited to 30A public charging".

 

[surfingslovak]

And that "thou shalt be limited to 30A public charging".

If you said "level 2 public charging", I would wholeheartedly agree. Even though most OEMs that don't use a Tesla drivetrain in their vehicles seem to think that 30 amps was enough, the i3 will have quick charging support. That said, it will be an option, and it will be CCS, which is essentially a reboot of the infrastructure development effort we have seen over the last two years. It will be interesting to watch how many prospects will end up getting the quick charging option, and how useful it will prove to be for them over the next 2-3 years.

 

[augkuo]

Pics of the BMW I3 out in the streets of Munich

Apologies for the poor quality - it was dark and I had small flash!

- - - Updated - - -

Pics of the BMW I3 out in the streets of Munich - Part 2

 

[WarpedOne]

More battery won't help the performance.
Actually more battery could help the performance - faster acceleration, more range, better longterm range.

 

[surfingslovak]

It has already been set apart from other EV's with its terrible performance. More battery won't help the performance.

I'm sorry, but there appears to be some confusion. Could you please clarify?

Pics of the BMW I3 out in the streets of Munich

Apologies for the poor quality - it was dark and I had small flash!

These are great! Thanks for sharing. The engineer driving this car seemed quite busy, and I wonder what they could be still testing.

 

[gnelson]

More battery won't help the performance.
Actually more battery could help the performance - faster acceleration, more range, better longterm range.

Surely it will help range but the additional battery weight will hamper acceleration. A larger battery won't improve the poor handling.

 

[Realist]

What did you think of the car's looks? I think it is a bit odd looking... but, I had similar thoughts re the Prius.

It looks very futuristic.

 

[ckessel]

It looks very futuristic.

I hope not, I'd like better for the future! :tongue:

Other than the wheels, it mostly looks like a Fiat or MiniCooper. In the 4th picture, there's some sort of small, boxy car across the street that looks much the same. The charge port door smack in the middle of the passenger fender is horrendously ugly :scared:

 

[WarpedOne]

Surely it will help range but the additional battery weight will hamper acceleration. A larger battery won't improve the poor handling.

If everything else stays the same then yes but it would be stupid to do so.
Larger battery enables higher max power without increasing the battery "load". More power == stronger acceleration.
A larger battery means more mass that is placed very low hence lowering the car's center of gravity == more level posture while cornering == better handling.

More max power could also mean BMW would have to fit a bit wider tires further improving handling.

 

[TylerCA]

It looks cramped in the rear. My guess is if you are over 6 feet tall, it won't be a very comfortable trip.,

 

[fastcars]

Not everyone that wants an EV can afford the $70K-$120K price tag of the Model S.

exactly...no need to compare every EV to tesla... wait a minute if you do that same people on the forum will start crying saying don't compare apple to orange or whatever...

i3 or second generation leaf (nissan said they are in process) or VW 14 new models in 2014. It looks like consumers will have tons of selection for hybrid to pure EV or whatever they like to buy...

 

[gameon]

I like what I see