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BMW i8
- Thread starter Doug_G
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I would expect BMW (or any other manufacturer) to pay more than is being charged to Tesla owners. One reason is that Tesla is taking on liability, maintenance overhead, and other costs that it would be foolish to charge BMW owners the same price. I'm not saying it should be a 10x premium for non-Tesla usage, but 1x seems wrong.
A couple of pages of posts were just moved to Pure BEV Dogma
That is where we corral the endless arguments about drive train types. Please stick to the i8 here, thanks.
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That is where we corral the endless arguments about drive train types. Please stick to the i8 here, thanks.
-mod
dennis
Model S Plaid
IMO the i8 is much more of a "performance hybrid" (poor man's P1/918/La Ferrari) than an EVer like the Karma and Volt. As such you have to expect that the ICE will be operating most of the time, unless you are in a city center. Nothing wrong with this, just a different design center.
My real question is how many buyers are there for a $135K+ sports car with a 3 cylinder motor?
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Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
My real question is how many buyers are there for a $135K+ sports car with a 3 cylinder motor?
Agree. I would like to add to the question of dennis: "and almost without the trunk?"
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
A Tesla has 0 cylinders….../ My real question is how many buyers are there for a $135K+ sports car with a 3 cylinder motor?
I would personally prefer if folks bought a Tesla instead of an i8. But it seems that some people must be able to spend days on the road in order to keep their day jobs. And as I understand it, if you’re only going to be 1 or 2 people in the car than this BMW should have better gas mileage than a Prius. And wouldn’t that make the i8 the most fuel efficient ICE-car available in the US? And with the ability to do 0-62 in 4,4 seconds, the i8 does not seem to be quite like your average econobox/penalty car. Sure, it’s not sub 4 seconds, but maybe folks will be able to stomach this for the good cause. Because hopefully we can all agree by now that MSNBC’s Chris Hayes was right yesterday when he explained why his show were covering the story about Tesla in NJ to the New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers representative:
You’ll not be getting of gas in an i8. But if you’ll loose your day job if you try to pull off your travel needs in a Model S, then at least you can reduce your gas consumption rather significantly…
Also: It seems to me that it sounds pretty good. Note though that there was still a bug in the powertrain software that caused the gearbox to shift up prematurely… So with that caveat – decent sound-display @6:20:
And if I recall correctly, that particular i8 was 95% finished, so the production version might sound even better…
As I understand it you’ll be able to fit at least two decent suitcases in the back seats.Agree. I would like to add to the question of dennis: "and almost without the trunk?"
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Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
Ok you are right but other issue with the BMW i8 is that the trasparent top is not available even as option.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
You also couldn’t get a Fisker Karma with any kind of transparent roof. Some folks bought that car anyway…
People who buy this car aren't going to buy it for the "great gas mileage" and I doubt many would use it as a commuter car...
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
1. Some people keep saying that. But who thought that Leonardo DiCaprio, Bradley Cooper, Harrison Ford, Miranda Kerr, Claudia Schiffer and Cameron Diaz would be buying a Prius?
And who thought that Matt Farah and Jennifer Lawrence would buy a Volt?
Regardless, the i8 seems to be selling rather well.
2. Aren’t a lot of people who are buying Porsche 911’s using them as daily drivers? If they can use a 911 as a daily driver, then why couldn’t these people or someone else use an i8 as a daily driver?
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1. Not sure what you're trying to argue with your examples... I doubt they bought the Prius/Volt to save gas money, though.
2. Define "a lot." I can only speak from my experience in the US (where gas prices are very low), but looking at used car listings, the average miles/year for a 911 is low (seriously low, like less than 50%) compared to cars like, say a Toyota Camry or Prius.
2. Define "a lot." I can only speak from my experience in the US (where gas prices are very low), but looking at used car listings, the average miles/year for a 911 is low (seriously low, like less than 50%) compared to cars like, say a Toyota Camry or Prius.
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
1. There is one more upside to low gas mileage than just saving money at the pump. And that upside is reduced environmental impact. And that is the reason why I think the people in my example bought a Prius/Volt. At least it’s known that that was the reason why DiCaprio bought a Prius (and a Tesla Roadster and a Fisker Karma).
And, what other reason could there be?
2. One reason why the mileage/year for a 911 is ~50% of a Camry or a Prius[SUP]4[/SUP] could be that people who buy 911’s don’t like to spend their time driving longish commutes. And since they can afford to buy a 911 they can probably also afford housing in attractive neighborhoods close to their day job.
3. But yeah, maybe they do use another car for longish road trips if they do need to take such occasional trips. And maybe the reason for that is that the 911 doesn’t return a very good gas mileage. And that that actually has started to impact their conscience.
But with an i8, then suddenly there is no longer any other car short of a Tesla that could do the trips as efficiently... And if they feel that they just cannot spend the time to make the trip in a Tesla, then the i8 seems to be the second best choice.
But given 2, maybe 3 isn’t necessary to explain it…
[SUP]4[/SUP]Assuming this is in the ball park since I haven’t checked…
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Many 911 owners keep them garaged and only take them out for "Sunday drives." Never in winter, never if rain is forecast, never where they have to park somewhere that could result in door dings, etc. sometimes the car comes out for a wash and wax, and then goes right back into the garage. Sometimes there are 20, 50, or over 100 such cars in the garage.
Other 911 owners use and enjoy their cars as daily drivers, but collector types keep the average miles per year down.
The i8 will likely be bought by the same types that buy 911s, Corvettes, etc.
GSP
Other 911 owners use and enjoy their cars as daily drivers, but collector types keep the average miles per year down.
The i8 will likely be bought by the same types that buy 911s, Corvettes, etc.
GSP
jkliu47
Member
Sorry but I beg to differ on the sound, I am not impressed with it. Certainly not befitting an exotic ICE supercar.
It sounds more like 4 cylinder engine running on only 3 - because of a head gasket leak... (like my old Alfa Duetto
). Ah oh yeah - it DOES have 3 cylinders.... I think for final production it would behoove BMW to use their active sound feedback to mask this sound of the engine.Nope I definitely prefer the absolute quiet of my Tesla!
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Do these collector types buy regular brand new 911’s with the intent of saving them as collectables?
Absolutely no argument there! I would also prefer an all-electric Tesla over the sound of an ICE in an i8. Always and everyday.
Arguably the most exotic ICE supercars made today are Formula 1 cars. And those have 1.6 liter engines. 0,1 liter bigger than an i8… But I guess Formula 1 cars are just not befitting as exotic ICE supercars anymore… [Shrug…]
{Ok. This one would have worked better if the current Formula 1 engines would have been 4 cylinders instead of the V6's they actually are. Oh, well...}
I don’t get this “only”-argument about cylinders. It feels as relevant as saying that:…/ It sounds more like 4 cylinder engine running on only 3 - because of a head gasket leak... (like my old Alfa Duetto
Isn’t performance what matters? There is just no way BMW can get 112 MPGe on the European test cycle with a V8…
Don’t know what that sounds like – so I guess I’ve run out of ways to try and spin this around – ahem, I mean – counter that argument.
But the i8 doesn’t sound the least bit broken to me…
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dennis
Model S Plaid
Not really:
Engine - it’s out with 2.4-litre normally-aspirated V8 engines and in with 1.6-litre V6 turbo engines, revving to a maximum of 15,000rpm. The current engines produce more than 750bhp, whilst the 2014 units will produce around 600bhp with additional power coming from Energy Recovery Systems...
Energy Recovery Systems (ERS) - in 2014, a larger proportion of each car’s power will come from ERS which, together with the engine, make up the powertrain or power unit. As well as generating energy under braking, ERS units will also generate power using waste heat from the engine’s turbocharger. Unlike the current KERS - which give drivers an extra 80bhp for six seconds per lap - the 2014 ERS will give drivers around 160bhp for 33 seconds per lap.
Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
An update on the sound from the i8 powertrain:
Secondary sources:
BMW i8's three-cylinder sounds like it's shaping up quite nicely - Autoblog
The BMW i8's Three-Cylinder Sounds Like A Ferocious Demon | Jalopnik
Secondary sources:
BMW i8's three-cylinder sounds like it's shaping up quite nicely - Autoblog
The BMW i8's Three-Cylinder Sounds Like A Ferocious Demon | Jalopnik
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