Bosch sees gap, and fills it: who is driving?

[e-FTW]

This is what Tesla is not nailing right now: letting the driver know who is driving at all times.
Bosch took us for a ride in its level 3 autonomous car
With the Bosch proof of concept, you always know who is driving, and the transitions between man and machine are so much clearer. Tesla could do so much more with the available screen space in the car, plus audio prompts.

One day, one inattentive driver will successfully sue Tesla, and Tesla will have to do something about notifications, and UI.
I am personally fine with the system the way it is because I am a geek and am finely in tune to what the system is doing at all times. But the user base is expanding fast, and that is what is terrifying me about Autopilot: the risk to Tesla that less tech-savvy users bring,

 

[e-FTW]

Just one example of what I mean: when rocking out to loud music, you air guitar into the steering wheel. Did you just disable Autopilot or not? You could not hear the chime over the music (that is a design failure). Hmm ok, is there a blue tint to that small steering wheel in the display?
Meanwhile, the road is turning away from your direction of travel.

 

[croman]

My audio mutes (or greatly lessens) when AS is enabled or disabled. I think your overall point is sound. I let my father in law drive because he's an Autopilot skeptic (despite being a licensed pilot he doesn't get AP). He kept only engaging TACC but couldn't double pull or check the IC to ensure AS was engaged. He let go of the wheel and I had to reach over and grab the wheel and engaged AS for him. I told him about the blue wheel icon. I told him about the chime noises. I told him about how TACC comes on first then AS. He still didn't get it and relied on the car to steer. Not great but also I'm not sure of a better solution since Tesla does shift responsbility to the driver. When L3+, then I think Tesla needs to look at how others do it (Nissan also seemed to have a great system where the machine was always on and the driver overrides as needed).

 

[Tiger]

I love driving. I'd rather take taxi/bus/train than use autopilot in a car that has a steering wheel

 

[EV-lutioin]

Personally, I think Tesla's inattentive driver warning is more noticeable than Bosch's with the flashing white ring around the UI. Tesla could turn that same ring blue when AP is engaged and it would be as good as Bosch at letting you know who is in charge of the car. Simple software update.

 

[calisnow]

This is what Tesla is not nailing right now: letting the driver know who is driving at all times...One day, one inattentive driver will successfully sue Tesla, and Tesla will have to do something about notifications, and UI...

(bolded emphasis mine)

Statutes and caselaw supporting your claim?

 

[calisnow]

...I...am finely in tune to what the system is doing at all times. But the user base is expanding fast, and that is what is terrifying me about Autopilot: the risk to Tesla that less tech-savvy users bring,

Heaven forbid people less competent than you, dear OP, use autopilot. It's TERRIFYING! Dunno, somehow my 72 year old, very tech non-savvy mom has over 20,000 successful miles on an AP1 in heavy California traffic under her belt. This is a woman with quite a bit of ADHD who has banged up quite a few cars in her time - but she has somehow managed to do just fine with the Tesla.

 

[e-FTW]

(bolded emphasis mine)

Statutes and caselaw supporting your claim?

I have no clue. I hope it never happens, but maybe one day, in one district, one driver may succeed at suing Tesla. Since IANAL, I rely on actual lawyers around here to appease my fears that this will never happen.
Fingers crossed!

 

[e-FTW]

Heaven forbid people less competent than you, dear OP, use autopilot. It's TERRIFYING! Dunno, somehow my 72 year old, very tech non-savvy mom has over 20,000 successful miles on an AP1 in heavy California traffic under her belt. This is a woman with quite a bit of ADHD who has banged up quite a few cars in her time - but she has somehow managed to do just fine with the Tesla.

I'm with you! But the sample size is small, and just in this thread we have one older airplane pilot failing to understand the system, and your mom which has mastered it.
Expand the sample to hundreds of thousands of drivers, and the risk increases.

I absolutely wish AP 1 and 2 (and whatever the 3 has) survives the acid test of the common human driver. I am an owner and investor.

 

[lunitiks]

When (/if) Tesla reaches L3 capability, it will be rolled out to a huge customer base. Think of all those Model 3 owners -- probably houndreds of thousands of non-enthusiasts with only a single, glare-prone 15" screen (plus sound) to rely on.

I think Audi made a wise move with that huge LED-strip across the dash that's green when L3 is engaged, and turns red when you're supposed to take over.

Actually L3 is a pretty dangerous Level, because it's 100% fully autonomous but still relies on the driver to take over when prompted. L4 is much safer because it has to be able to do a SAFE fallback manuever every time.. L2 is fine because the responsibility is on you as a driver at all times.

(No point discussing L5 since it won't be a reality in many years.)

 

[croman]

When (/if) Tesla reaches L3 capability, it will be rolled out to a huge customer base. Think of all those Model 3 owners -- probably houndreds of thousands of non-enthusiasts with only a single, glare-prone 15" screen (plus sound) to rely on.

I think Audi made a wise move with that huge LED-strip across the dash that's green when L3 is engaged, and turns red when you're supposed to take over.

Actually L3 is a pretty dangerous Level, because it's 100% fully autonomous but still relies on the driver to take over when prompted. L4 is much safer because it has to be able to do a SAFE fallback manuever every time.. L2 is fine because the responsibility is on you as a driver at all times.

(No point discussing L5 since it won't be a reality in many years.)

That's why Google won't do L3 and is trying to avoid L4. They want true FSD or nothing. I think that's admirable but I agree with Elon on this: perfection is the enemy of progress. If we can save lives with an L3 system vs. nothing, we should implement the L3 system even if there are deaths because of the L3 not being perfect as long as the net benefit is there.

 

[BLKTSLA]

Personally, I think Tesla's inattentive driver warning is more noticeable than Bosch's with the flashing white ring around the UI. Tesla could turn that same ring blue when AP is engaged and it would be as good as Bosch at letting you know who is in charge of the car. Simple software update.

The new Tesla warning of the white halo on the IC is much more noticeable than the little notification at the bottom of the screen, add audible chimes and that makes it clear when to take over. However, you are very right in that they could do more, but making the halo blue instead of white is likely to just make people ignore the color change. It works well now because there is no halo and when you see the halo with your lower periphery it stands out.

I think the real solution with the current system is to bring back the speedometer the one that all non-ap cars have. Make that the primary view and when AP is engaged the screen should shift/switch to the current AP view. This is a VERY clear indicator what mode you are in. This would also help croman's FiL who is a pilot make more sense of AP. There is so much they could do with an all LCD IC but seem to be limiting themselves to rudimentary functions...would love to see a highly adaptive IC and maybe even customizable per profile as well.