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Bummer for those who paid for self drive.

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Why would you want that? Got blind spot warning and paid 3k a year in advance to get a free upgrade cpu and any other requirements needed for fsd

FSD is not coming. Government has no plans to allow it and only big companies can test on public roads. Which means, only big companies can operate it if allowed. Next step is Govn't opening up testing for personal vehicles which could be 10+ years and probably limited permits that are 1st come 1st serve. Also, getting all 50 states aligned will take a long time. Maybe it can go FSD from CA to AZ, but once you get into TX, you have to drive manually. I don't see how cameras alone will get Govn't approval for FSD either. It is just so limited and can't see fast motorcycles lane splitting or 3 lanes down that a car is going to slam into you if you keep the same vector. Just like the v9 dashcam footage where the red Model 3 t-bones the white Honda. This happens all the time in LA and as a driver I can predict and slow down at each gap knowing there is a high percentage someone will shoot the gap. AP can't scan and predict. It will just go the speed limit and slams on the brake. This is why most FSD cars like Google and Cruise gets rear ended.
 
FSD is not coming. Government has no plans to allow it and only big companies can test on public roads. Which means, only big companies can operate it if allowed. Next step is Govn't opening up testing for personal vehicles which could be 10+ years and probably limited permits that are 1st come 1st serve. Also, getting all 50 states aligned will take a long time. Maybe it can go FSD from CA to AZ, but once you get into TX, you have to drive manually. I don't see how cameras alone will get Govn't approval for FSD either. It is just so limited and can't see fast motorcycles lane splitting or 3 lanes down that a car is going to slam into you if you keep the same vector. Just like the v9 dashcam footage where the red Model 3 t-bones the white Honda. This happens all the time in LA and as a driver I can predict and slow down at each gap knowing there is a high percentage someone will shoot the gap. AP can't scan and predict. It will just go the speed limit and slams on the brake. This is why most FSD cars like Google and Cruise gets rear ended.

I agree with your conclusion (FSD will take a long time to develop), but not the reasons that you state.

You say: "It is just so limited and can't see fast motorcycles lane splitting or 3 lanes down that a car is going to slam into you if you keep the same vector."
It absolutely can *see* the motorcycle and the car 3 lanes down, it just doesn't "understand" (I use the term loosely, because AI is not really "intelligent" per se) those situations. This is a matter of training and compute capacity.

"AP can't scan and predict." - absolutely untrue. The AP can predict. The problem with using AI to predict is that it can also generate false positives (i.e., it's easy for it to think a given car is going a certain place when it isn't). Tesla's current implementation is (properly, IMO) very conservative - by primarily being reactive it avoids a lot of situations where it may mistakenly take action on something it thinks might happen, but doesn't.

A bit of the problem of prediction is evident in the false braking events people report when approaching overpasses - it's easy for the AI to misinterpret inputs (this is known as "overfitting" in AI training terms).

"This is why most FSD cars like Google and Cruise gets rear ended." - FSD cars get rear-ended because this is how the most classic human error exhibits itself - inattentiveness. They get rear-ended because they get hit by people texting, fiddling with the radio, doing their makeup, etc. This is also why non-FSD cars constantly get rear-ended. I've seen no evidence to suggest that FSD cars get into accidents different from the accidents human drivers get into. Note that by most reports FSD cars *cause* very few accidents - the human element is still the weak link here.

IMO, the reality here is that true FSD requires not only a "good" solution - it requires a "great" solution. FSD will be given little benefit of the doubt, so it will be held to a much higher standard than humans will be held to. This means that there is a ton of situations the FSD will handle cleanly before gaining adoption.

It's one thing to come up with a technology that solves 99% of the problems - it's much, much harder to come up with the technology that solves 100% of them. I think there are several vendors at the 99% stage - but not many approaching 100%.
 
FSD is not coming. Government has no plans to allow it and only big companies can test on public roads. Which means, only big companies can operate it if allowed. Next step is Govn't opening up testing for personal vehicles which could be 10+ years and probably limited permits that are 1st come 1st serve. Also, getting all 50 states aligned will take a long time. Maybe it can go FSD from CA to AZ, but once you get into TX, you have to drive manually. I don't see how cameras alone will get Govn't approval for FSD either. It is just so limited and can't see fast motorcycles lane splitting or 3 lanes down that a car is going to slam into you if you keep the same vector. Just like the v9 dashcam footage where the red Model 3 t-bones the white Honda. This happens all the time in LA and as a driver I can predict and slow down at each gap knowing there is a high percentage someone will shoot the gap. AP can't scan and predict. It will just go the speed limit and slams on the brake. This is why most FSD cars like Google and Cruise gets rear ended.
Wow so most everyone who paid for the FSD just threw $3k away. I would guess less than 1% will keep their prepaid FSD Tesla cars for 10+ years.
 
I wonder when the time comes to upgrade to a newer model if I would just want to keep my 2017 S w/FSD and free supercharging knowing it could possibly be upgraded for free to accomodate FSD promise and supercharging for life could/will go away? I honesty believe that FSD is worth $100,000 if it were ever a real possiblity at least at first. It's never been done before. $3000 would definitely be a bargain.
 
FSD is not coming. Government has no plans to allow it and only big companies can test on public roads.

This is completely untrue.

Many states have passed laws allowing them, for anybody, under various conditions- for example in Colorado passed this in 2017-

http://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2017A/bills/2017a_213_signed.pdf

Essentially if your automatic driving system complies with all existing state and federal laws (doesn't pass pulled over school buses, obeys speed limits, etc...), you can use it. Right now. Today. As a private citizen.
 
FSD will be given little benefit of the doubt, so it will be held to a much higher standard than humans will be held to.
So what does that mean? That FSD causes only 10,000 or so fatalities per year on US roads rather than the far greater number caused by human drivers? FSD can be pretty awful and still be better than humans. That's basically Elon's reasoning when he says that it's immoral not to deploy it as soon as it's better than humans.
 
So what does that mean? That FSD causes only 10,000 or so fatalities per year on US roads rather than the far greater number caused by human drivers? FSD can be pretty awful and still be better than humans. That's basically Elon's reasoning when he says that it's immoral not to deploy it as soon as it's better than humans.

Sure, but imagine the uproar if 5,000 of those fatalities are from Teslas on FSD running full speed into the back of fire trucks.

FSD isn't going to kill people only in ways that people can identify with. It's going to find brand new AI-instigated ways to kill people. That'll make people respond to these accidents very differently from the way they respond to human accidents (IMO).

And while nobody deserves to die in a car accident, many traffic fatalities involve some fault on the part of decedents (drunk solo accidents, reckless drivers who lose control, etc.) - FSD is going to be killing only faultless people (because they're not doing the driving, of course).

I don't think it's that straight-forward - it's not a pure numbers game.
 
FSD is not coming. Government has no plans to allow it and only big companies can test on public roads. Which means, only big companies can operate it if allowed. Next step is Govn't opening up testing for personal vehicles which could be 10+ years and probably limited permits that are 1st come 1st serve. Also, getting all 50 states aligned will take a long time. Maybe it can go FSD from CA to AZ, but once you get into TX, you have to drive manually. I don't see how cameras alone will get Govn't approval for FSD either. It is just so limited and can't see fast motorcycles lane splitting or 3 lanes down that a car is going to slam into you if you keep the same vector. Just like the v9 dashcam footage where the red Model 3 t-bones the white Honda. This happens all the time in LA and as a driver I can predict and slow down at each gap knowing there is a high percentage someone will shoot the gap. AP can't scan and predict. It will just go the speed limit and slams on the brake. This is why most FSD cars like Google and Cruise gets rear ended.
Not possible? Watch what you claim. Phones with faster processors and more memory than 40 lb pc. I dont remember many predictions about that. Sequencing entire human genome wasn’t possible until just 3 years before it’s done. Do you also think we should shut down the patent office because everything worthwhile has already been invented?
 
I bet a lot of customers are upset they spent $3k on something that has been pushed back several more years.

I spent the $3k for Full Self Driving same as I see when I choose to Kickstart something that might take years or never happen. That said, from what I gather, in about 6 months Tesla will start including Hardware V3 in their vehicles and I think at that time, the FSD option will come back to the configurator.

Around that time, those that have already paid for FSD should start getting option to getting the hardware upgrade installed on their cars. This will be pre-cursor to FSD being enabled.

If it isn't 6 months, then it will be longer, but it will happen.
 
This is completely untrue.

Many states have passed laws allowing them, for anybody, under various conditions- for example in Colorado passed this in 2017-

http://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2017A/bills/2017a_213_signed.pdf

Essentially if your automatic driving system complies with all existing state and federal laws (doesn't pass pulled over school buses, obeys speed limits, etc...), you can use it. Right now. Today. As a private citizen.

Thanks! Glad there is a start but when will all 50 states agree to this or even just California.

Not possible? Watch what you claim. Phones with faster processors and more memory than 40 lb pc. I dont remember many predictions about that. Sequencing entire human genome wasn’t possible until just 3 years before it’s done. Do you also think we should shut down the patent office because everything worthwhile has already been invented?

No doubt the tech will be better but my Model 3 is using 2018 tech. Just a CPU swap will not make it FSD. I believe more hardware are needed to satisfy the government. Look what Cruise and Google are using. They have a ton of hardware and still not 100% perfect.
 
Thanks! Glad there is a start but when will all 50 states agree to this or even just California.


CA has allowed self driving cars on public roads since April.

California DMV has new regulations for self-driving car companies

The CA DMV can issue permits to deploy self driving vehicles as long as they ensure cars can detect and respond to roadway situations, meet best practices to detect cyberattacks and more.

A slightly later story-
https://gizmodo.com/self-driving-cars-can-now-pick-up-passengers-in-califor-1826480542

Mentions CA is explicitly allowing end-user testing of things like driverless taxi services

The idea THE GOVERNMENT needs to do a ton additional stuff to allow it just isn't true.... Certainly it'd be nice if we get some federal regs so your car doesn't need to change behavior crossing state lines... but honestly if mine just drove me to work and back while I slept I'd pay more than 3k for that alone.
 
Spare us the deep concern and condolences @Hitman007 .

I'll make this really simple for you and everyone else:

FSD worth = $30,000
Incremental FSD over the next few years = $3,000
Locked in hardware upgrades = Priceless

Exactly. I’m a tech geek and will enjoy each little new feature or improvement over the coming years. Even if we’re still gonna have “driver must maintain control at all times’ and every 30 second nags, I’m gonna have a lot of fun playing with and showing off mostly-self-driving especially once more city driving features are enabled (stop sign and red light detection, pedestrian detection, drive on navigation for city streets, summon with turning). Totally worth the $3000 price of admission.
 
While we wait for the advance autonomous driving of the future, enjoy what is available today.

Autopilot is a miracle of technology for the driver who knows it’s limitations and uses its capabilities to the fullest. The result is a safer journey when Autopilot controls every moment of travel and the human driver is ready to correct an occasional error or incident that occurs as part of the driving environment. While the driver cannot control deer who leap in front of a car or a wrong way driver, an Autopilot driver can be safer from drifting out of a lane or being too close to the driver in front.

Having a set speed that prevents infractions saves time and money compared to being ticketed. Driving is more relaxed as Autopilot slows automatically if the driver ahead is driving slower. This eases road rage aggravation since the driver is not directly affected in having to slow down manually. The result is arriving at a destination refreshed and calm since the computer dealt with the constant changes that other drivers made.

The Autopilot driver has time to look ahead for dangerous conditions, to look back at drivers behind and warn of them if necessary. As an Autopilot vehicle slows, the driver can briefly touch the flasher button if a tailgater needs to back off or the driver can decide to pass the vehicle that is ahead. The automated slowing makes for a safer driver as there is a sixth sense of the speed of the vehicle ahead.

Holding the steering wheel provides feedback as Autopilot decides to turn. If the action doesn’t match what is normal, the tactile feeling of what occurs is instantly communicated to the driver who is ready to respond with corrective action if necessary. At the end of the day, everyone has enjoyed a safer drive for themselves, the passengers and the other drivers they were near during the journey.
 
My experience with EAP confirmed my decision not to pay for FSD. EAP is magical and a game changer. However, it still makes errors and has plenty of limitations. If EAP isn’t better, how can FSD even be launched.

I’m sure we will get to FSD but it is going to be a while. Knowing that, I found it odd that Tesla offered the option and people would actually pay for it.
 
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While we wait for the advance autonomous driving of the future, enjoy what is available today.

Autopilot is a miracle of technology for the driver who knows it’s limitations and uses its capabilities to the fullest. The result is a safer journey when Autopilot controls every moment of travel and the human driver is ready to correct an occasional error or incident that occurs as part of the driving environment. While the driver cannot control deer who leap in front of a car or a wrong way driver, an Autopilot driver can be safer from drifting out of a lane or being too close to the driver in front.

Having a set speed that prevents infractions saves time and money compared to being ticketed. Driving is more relaxed as Autopilot slows automatically if the driver ahead is driving slower. This eases road rage aggravation since the driver is not directly affected in having to slow down manually. The result is arriving at a destination refreshed and calm since the computer dealt with the constant changes that other drivers made.

The Autopilot driver has time to look ahead for dangerous conditions, to look back at drivers behind and warn of them if necessary. As an Autopilot vehicle slows, the driver can briefly touch the flasher button if a tailgater needs to back off or the driver can decide to pass the vehicle that is ahead. The automated slowing makes for a safer driver as there is a sixth sense of the speed of the vehicle ahead.

Holding the steering wheel provides feedback as Autopilot decides to turn. If the action doesn’t match what is normal, the tactile feeling of what occurs is instantly communicated to the driver who is ready to respond with corrective action if necessary. At the end of the day, everyone has enjoyed a safer drive for themselves, the passengers and the other drivers they were near during the journey.

Extensive AP experience or even owning a Tesla is not a requirement to comment on its usefulness and capabilities. :)

Thanks for sharing. I love driving without AP and I love driving with it.

Use the best tool for the situation..