Buying a used Tesla 3 advice...

[CyranoBleu]

I've put a deposit down vi the Tesla website for the following two vehicles:

1. 2019 Model 3 SR+ RWD (no additional bells or whistles except black paint) - $41,790 likely to receive a 2020 VIN)
2. 2017 Model 3 LR RWD (FSD, full premium interior, 19-inch sport wheels, 33,900 miles) - $43,300

I think the 2017 is a great deal... even though I can't get the $1875 federal tax credit or the $2000 CA rebate.
The 2019 is $37,915 after the tax credit and rebate. So, I'm paying $5,385 more for the 2017.

However,
(a) FSD would could $7,000 alone.
(b) The larger battery and extra range is a great reselling factor plus it adds benefit on long drives.
(c)The sports wheels look cool and would normally cost an extra $1,600-$1,800 I believe.
(d) The premium interior has many important benefits over partial premium interior, including the sound for me (as a music industry person). The traffic visualization/premium navigation is also valuable. The heated backseats are also nice... doesn't matter much matter to me personally since I live in LA where the weather rarely gets cold and I will rarely have backseat passengers, but this will very much matter to someone I try to sell the vehicle to in the future. The premium interior must cost thousands a la carte.

Both cars are black outside and inside, which is what I wanted. So, I lose two years of VIN (which won't matter after several years of ownership. And, I pay more upfront, but get far more value in the specs with the 2017.

At $.15/mile, I lose approximately $5,085 in value on the 2017 due to the 33,900 miles. I imagine there will be some paint issues that I may want to fix as well after all that driving.

This vehicle will mostly sit in my garage though. I do not expect to drive it more than 5,000/mi/year (if that) since I live directly across the street from work. So, I will start to make up for the standard 12k/yr miles the previous owner put on the vehicle.

With all the above in mind, which vehicle do you think I should go for this week??? One will be cancelled.

Thanks!

 

[acarney]

I've put a deposit down vi the Tesla website for the following two vehicles:

1. 2019 Model 3 SR+ RWD (no additional bells or whistles except black paint) - $41,790 likely to receive a 2020 VIN)
2. 2017 Model 3 LR RWD (FSD, full premium interior, 19-inch sport wheels, 33,900 miles) - $43,300

I think the 2017 is a great deal... even though I can't get the $1875 federal tax credit or the $2000 CA rebate.
The 2019 is $37,915 after the tax credit and rebate. So, I'm paying $5,385 more for the 2017.

However,
(a) FSD would could $7,000 alone.
(b) The larger battery and extra range is a great reselling factor plus it adds benefit on long drives.
(c)The sports wheels look cool and would normally cost an extra $1,600-$1,800 I believe.
(d) The premium interior has many important benefits over partial premium interior, including the sound for me (as a music industry person). The traffic visualization/premium navigation is also valuable. The heated backseats are also nice... doesn't matter much matter to me personally since I live in LA where the weather rarely gets cold and I will rarely have backseat passengers, but this will very much matter to someone I try to sell the vehicle to in the future. The premium interior must cost thousands a la carte.

Both cars are black outside and inside, which is what I wanted. So, I lose two years of VIN (which won't matter after several years of ownership. And, I pay more upfront, but get far more value in the specs with the 2017.

At $.15/mile, I lose approximately $5,085 in value on the 2017 due to the 33,900 miles. I imagine there will be some paint issues that I may want to fix as well after all that driving.

This vehicle will mostly sit in my garage though. I do not expect to drive it more than 5,000/mi/year (if that) since I live directly across the street from work. So, I will start to make up for the standard 12k/yr miles the previous owner put on the vehicle.

With all the above in mind, which vehicle do you think I should go for this week??? One will be cancelled.

Thanks!

I probably would buy new. That’s a lot of miles and you need to think of warranty with that early VIN. You can buy the 19s if you really really want them, but you give up some efficiency with the 19s compared to the 18s.

Honestly FSD isn’t really worth much right now and you’ll have to get the hardware 3.0 retrofit to gain some of the features already being released. Traffic cones won’t show up on your version and the FSD “sneak peak” requires HW3. While you will have purchased HW3, there is no way to request the upgrades right now. Tesla MIGHT go ahead and do it if you have another service that needs done OR Tesla may wait until a “feature complete” version of FSD comes out that actually requires it for core operations. Best guess is mid year 2020 or fall 2020, if that.

All premium map features and music streaming can be added to the SR+ for $10/mo. I’m not sure if buying a used model will get you 1 year free (like you would buying a new premium interior car).

All in all, 30k less miles, a much new VIN (less likely bugs and hardware issues and full four year 50k warranty), and HW3 from the get go makes buying new well worth it in my opinion.

 

[acarney]

I've put a deposit down vi the Tesla website for the following two vehicles:

1. 2019 Model 3 SR+ RWD (no additional bells or whistles except black paint) - $41,790 likely to receive a 2020 VIN)
2. 2017 Model 3 LR RWD (FSD, full premium interior, 19-inch sport wheels, 33,900 miles) - $43,300

I think the 2017 is a great deal... even though I can't get the $1875 federal tax credit or the $2000 CA rebate.
The 2019 is $37,915 after the tax credit and rebate. So, I'm paying $5,385 more for the 2017.

However,
(a) FSD would could $7,000 alone.
(b) The larger battery and extra range is a great reselling factor plus it adds benefit on long drives.
(c)The sports wheels look cool and would normally cost an extra $1,600-$1,800 I believe.
(d) The premium interior has many important benefits over partial premium interior, including the sound for me (as a music industry person). The traffic visualization/premium navigation is also valuable. The heated backseats are also nice... doesn't matter much matter to me personally since I live in LA where the weather rarely gets cold and I will rarely have backseat passengers, but this will very much matter to someone I try to sell the vehicle to in the future. The premium interior must cost thousands a la carte.

Both cars are black outside and inside, which is what I wanted. So, I lose two years of VIN (which won't matter after several years of ownership. And, I pay more upfront, but get far more value in the specs with the 2017.

At $.15/mile, I lose approximately $5,085 in value on the 2017 due to the 33,900 miles. I imagine there will be some paint issues that I may want to fix as well after all that driving.

This vehicle will mostly sit in my garage though. I do not expect to drive it more than 5,000/mi/year (if that) since I live directly across the street from work. So, I will start to make up for the standard 12k/yr miles the previous owner put on the vehicle.

With all the above in mind, which vehicle do you think I should go for this week??? One will be cancelled.

Thanks!

It’s also worth noting that you’ll only get that federal credit if you take delivery before the end of the year. CA credit I’m not certain about, you would have to research that more. After fed/CA credit there is a LR AWD Black exterior with black & white interior for ~$3815 more than that 2017. That $3,800 gets you a brand spanking new 2020 car with no miles (which you already estimate is worth $5k) AND a second motor. It doesn’t have FSD, but would have hardware 3 (which we’ve already seen HW3 features on basic AP show up, traffic cones is a prime example).

If you can make your budget stretch a little more, I would call up Costa Mesa Tesla as soon as they open and ask about VIN 638990.

You could probably take delivery by the end of the week. Also, if you do switch the SR+ to a LR AWD ask about applying a referral code so you get 1,000 free miles... or if you place a brand new order make sure to use one!

Basically I wouldn’t get used, especially when it’s some of the very first Model 3s that rolled off the line and that kind of miles.

 

[OCR1]

A Model 3 that was built prior to July 1, 2018 should have lifetime premium connectivity.

I would not buy such an early VIN with 33,000 miles and almost no remaining warranty. Buy a new inventory car and take the fed and CA tax credits. Don’t waste money on FSD. You can buy it later if you really want it. Basic AP does almost everything you will really need.

 

[CyranoBleu]

It’s also worth noting that you’ll only get that federal credit if you take delivery before the end of the year. CA credit I’m not certain about, you would have to research that more. After fed/CA credit there is a LR AWD Black exterior with black & white interior for ~$3815 more than that 2017. That $3,800 gets you a brand spanking new 2020 car with no miles (which you already estimate is worth $5k) AND a second motor. It doesn’t have FSD, but would have hardware 3 (which we’ve already seen HW3 features on basic AP show up, traffic cones is a prime example).

If you can make your budget stretch a little more, I would call up Costa Mesa Tesla as soon as they open and ask about VIN 638990.

You could probably take delivery by the end of the week. Also, if you do switch the SR+ to a LR AWD ask about applying a referral code so you get 1,000 free miles... or if you place a brand new order make sure to use one!

Basically I wouldn’t get used, especially when it’s some of the very first Model 3s that rolled off the line and that kind of miles.

Thanks for this advice! I will inquire into the VIN you suggested. For me, FSD is a great option to have, which may bring value down the road. Whenever I speak to a sales rep, of course they push FSD and how the price will go up and the value may reach 15-20k. I'd rather have it now than wait and buy it at a steeper price.

I've just spoken with another rep who says that there is no difference between the VIN years... 2020 is the same as 2017 in terms of design. So, that's good to know. Minor differences are not important for me.

Nonetheless, the dial moto AWD on the VIN you suggested is very attractive. But, an extra $3,800 plus the prospect of a $7,000+ FSD makes me slam the brakes a bit. Yet, the $3,800 is negligible considering the mileage on the 2017.

I have a referral code on the 2019/20 SR+. Wonder if I can swap it over.

Thanks again for your help. Let me try to reach Costa Mesa!

 

[CyranoBleu]

A Model 3 that was built prior to July 1, 2018 should have lifetime premium connectivity.

I would not buy such an early VIN with 33,000 miles and almost no remaining warranty. Buy a new inventory car and take the fed and CA tax credits. Don’t waste money on FSD. You can buy it later if you really want it. Basic AP does almost everything you will really need.

Thanks for your advice! Since I will not be driving the car much, the lack of much more warranty doesn't bother me as much as if I had to drive a lot. However, it is definitely an important consideration. Good point.

Why does everyone seem so unimpressed with FSD? It seems that many people consider it as an after-thought. But, I would think that the option to join the robo-taxi fleet plus the increased value of FSD overtime would be seen as an investment in the future. I know that future is uncertain, but the thought of paying for it later (and potentially at a much higher price) bothers me.

Also, I must note that I get the full premium interior with the 2017... another $7,000 value on to of the FSD $7,000 value.

What else am I missing though?

Thanks again!

 

[CyranoBleu]

I probably would buy new. That’s a lot of miles and you need to think of warranty with that early VIN. You can buy the 19s if you really really want them, but you give up some efficiency with the 19s compared to the 18s.

Honestly FSD isn’t really worth much right now and you’ll have to get the hardware 3.0 retrofit to gain some of the features already being released. Traffic cones won’t show up on your version and the FSD “sneak peak” requires HW3. While you will have purchased HW3, there is no way to request the upgrades right now. Tesla MIGHT go ahead and do it if you have another service that needs done OR Tesla may wait until a “feature complete” version of FSD comes out that actually requires it for core operations. Best guess is mid year 2020 or fall 2020, if that.

All premium map features and music streaming can be added to the SR+ for $10/mo. I’m not sure if buying a used model will get you 1 year free (like you would buying a new premium interior car).

All in all, 30k less miles, a much new VIN (less likely bugs and hardware issues and full four year 50k warranty), and HW3 from the get go makes buying new well worth it in my opinion.

These are good points as well. But, is FSD really not worth much? I feel that Tesla is banking a lot of being first to market with truly functional and regulatory authority-approved FSD on highways and surface streets. The whole robo-taxi plan is based on this. And, FSD is a major future selling point for Tesla over its competition. I like to think that Tesla will reach that finish line first. And, I certainly wouldn't want to pay more $7k (most likely significantly more) later when I can get it in the 2017.

However, that warranty issue is a concern. I won't hit the miles, but it will expire in 2021.

hmmmmm....

 

[OCR1]

Thanks for your advice! Since I will not be driving the car much, the lack of much more warranty doesn't bother me as much as if I had to drive a lot. However, it is definitely an important consideration. Good point.

Why does everyone seem so unimpressed with FSD? It seems that many people consider it as an after-thought. But, I would think that the option to join the robo-taxi fleet plus the increased value of FSD overtime would be seen as an investment in the future. I know that future is uncertain, but the thought of paying for it later (and potentially at a much higher price) bothers me.

Also, I must note that I get the full premium interior with the 2017... another $7,000 value on to of the FSD $7,000 value.

What else am I missing though?

Thanks again!

Those of us who have been following Tesla for a while have learned not to take things Elon says too seriously. He’s been promising full self driving now for three years and we are still not there.

Robotaxis - yeah right. Don’t make me laugh. That’s many many years away.

The point we are trying to make is you should buy the best car for the money after factoring in available remaining tax credits. FSD is not worth $7K right now. Autopilot will do 90% of what you need it to do. The other stuff is just party tricks.

The sales rep can tell you it will cost $15K-$20K later but they are just pulling stuff out of their ass. It was on sale in March for $3K when Tesla needed money. And once the tax credits expire sales in North America may slow down again, which means incentives, not price increases.

You can always add FSD later but a 2020 car is going to be much better off for resale than a high mileage 2017 vehicle. Tesla was still learning how to build the car in 2017. A 2020 represents 3 years of refinement in the production process.

 

[mswlogo]

Keep shopping.

I sold my 2018 Performance Stealth with FSD, 19" OEM Wheels, and 18" Snows for $50K with 9K miles.

I would not get a Model 3 before the Seat and Suspension updates.

That car will be out of warranty in 16K miles.

If you are buying from Tesla they might reset the Warranty. They might reset FSD too.

FSD is if you have "play money". For the most part it's worthless right now. Basic Auto Pilot is 95% of the useful part of today's "FSD".

Also make sure that used AWD is not just EAP and missing FSD. EAP will do everything today except it won't upgrade your hardware to HW3.

 

[CyranoBleu]

Those of us who have been following Tesla for a while have learned not to take things Elon says too seriously. He’s been promising full self driving now for three years and we are still not there.

Robotaxis - yeah right. Don’t make me laugh. That’s many many years away.

The point we are trying to make is you should buy the best car for the money after factoring in available remaining tax credits. FSD is not worth $7K right now. Autopilot will do 90% of what you need it to do. The other stuff is just party tricks.

The sales rep can tell you it will cost $15K-$20K later but they are just pulling stuff out of their ass. It was on sale in March for $3K when Tesla needed money. And once the tax credits expire sales in North America may slow down again, which means incentives, not price increases.

You can always add FSD later but a 2020 car is going to be much better off for resale than a high mileage 2017 vehicle. Tesla was still learning how to build the car in 2017. A 2020 represents 3 years of refinement in the production process.

haha! I agree that robotaxis are quite a while into the future. I also doubt that FSD will go up in price as sales reps suggest. These sorts of things should get cheaper over time, especially as competition enters the market. This is basic supply and demand.

I still don't like the thought of paying $7k for FSD later. However, the lower mileage and longer warranty are BIG considerations.

If more incentives will pop up after the tax credits expire, maybe I should just hold off on buying a Tesla altogether for a while and see how 2020 plays out! lol

 

[CyranoBleu]

Keep shopping.

I sold my 2018 Performance Stealth with FSD, 19" OEM Wheels, and 18" Snows for $50K with 9K miles.

I would not get a Model 3 before the Seat and Suspension updates.

That car will be out of warranty in 16K miles.

If you are buying from Tesla they might reset the Warranty. They might reset FSD too.

FSD is if you have "play money". For the most part it's worthless right now. Basic Auto Pilot is 95% of the useful part of today's "FSD".

Also make sure that used AWD is not just EAP and missing FSD. EAP will do everything today except it won't upgrade your hardware to HW3.

It would be really nice if they reset the warranty. I was told that the FSD will be fully upgraded for free. The HW3 can also be installed, but it has not been priced yet.

So, what were the seat updates and suspension updates after 2017? I was not aware of those. Thanks!

 

[PNWLeccy]

A Model 3 that was built prior to July 1, 2018 should have lifetime premium connectivity.

This only applies if the car was purchased from a private seller. Otherwise only 1 year of complimentary premium connectivity is included.

I bought a used 6/18 from Tesla thinking this was the case but my account shows it expiring @ my 1 year ownership anniversary.

 

[OCR1]

This only applies if the car was purchased from a private seller. Otherwise only 1 year of complimentary premium connectivity is included.

I bought a used 6/18 from Tesla thinking this was the case but my account shows it expiring @ my 1 year ownership anniversary.

From the Tesla Connectivity FAQ:

If you ordered your car on or before June 30, 2018, you will automatically have access to existing Premium Connectivity features at no cost for the lifetime of the car and do not need to subscribe. As additional features and services become available in the future, you will have the option to upgrade connectivity plans from your Tesla Account.

Connectivity

I’d call Tesla and have a conversation with them about that if I were you.

 

[PNWLeccy]

From the Tesla Connectivity FAQ:

If you ordered your car on or before June 30, 2018, you will automatically have access to existing Premium Connectivity features at no cost for the lifetime of the car and do not need to subscribe. As additional features and services become available in the future, you will have the option to upgrade connectivity plans from your Tesla Account.

Connectivity

I’d call Tesla and have a conversation with them about that if I were you.

My understanding of this is that I did not order the car before 7/18 but the original owner did. When the car goes back to Tesla and is resold as used, that premium connectivity is reset. If the original owner sold it to me directly, then I would be able to keep the original owners premium connectivity for life.

I believe this was a little different for some early S and X models that had benefits like free supercharging for life that was linked to the CAR vs The owner. I think the M3 is linked to the owner

 

[CyranoBleu]

My understanding of this is that I did not order the car before 7/18 but the original owner did. When the car goes back to Tesla and is resold as used, that premium connectivity is reset. If the original owner sold it to me directly, then I would be able to keep the original owners premium connectivity for life.

I believe this was a little different for some early S and X models that had benefits like free supercharging for life that was linked to the CAR vs The owner. I think the M3 is linked to the owner

This comports with what I've read as well, although I hope we're both wrong.
If you buy it used from Tesla, you don't get the lifetime connectivity as Tesla removes it.

 

[CyranoBleu]

What is the importance of mileage when it comes to a Tesla really?
Is 33k miles really a lot for a Tesla?

I need to check if Tesla offers an extended warranty for Model 3s. It seems that it does not when I read the website. YOu only get the remainder of the original warranties if you buy a used Model 3 from Tesla. However, you get a new 4yrs/50k miles for the S or X.

Vehicle Warranty

mswlogo has me hoping Tesla agrees to reset the warranty on the 2017. As a first time Tesla owner, that would be a great inducement. Plus, Tesla likes to stand behind its quality manufacturing, so this should be an easy freebie to give away for them, no?

EDIT: There is however X Care! To the rescue! X-Care - Xcelerate Auto

 

[Yapa Drive]

Another thing to consider is the flexibility that a new AWD provides vs a used RWD. On top of the improved traction, having a second motor gives you added reliability. If one motor fails the other will get you to a service center. I considered FSD but decided to wait until it is widely in use. Buying it now is essentially a no interest loan for something I will seldom need at least for right now.

 

[CyranoBleu]

Another thing to consider is the flexibility that a new AWD provides vs a used RWD. On top of the improved traction, having a second motor gives you added reliability. If one motor fails the other will get you to a service center. I considered FSD but decided to wait until it is widely in use. Buying it now is essentially a no interest loan for something I will seldom need at least for right now.

Fair point regarding the "no interest loan". Good point as well on the benefit of dual motor.
My only issue is that the second motor stretches my budget further than I would like. I am not finding a new/demo.showeroom/used AWD M3 for under 45k.

I'd have to count on roadside assistance if I have a motor failure. If Tesla motors were known to fail frequently, I'd pass on the vehicles altogether.

 

[acarney]

Fair point regarding the "no interest loan". Good point as well on the benefit of dual motor.
My only issue is that the second motor stretches my budget further than I would like. I am not finding a new/demo.showeroom/used AWD M3 for under 45k.

I'd have to count on roadside assistance if I have a motor failure. If Tesla motors were known to fail frequently, I'd pass on the vehicles altogether.

Looks like right now the lowest inventory vehicle (which is brand new) in CA (Burbank) is a AWD White with Black/White interior and 18” Aero for $49,990. If you get the fed and state that would reduce it to $46,115.

Again I think a new with HW3 is worth it. The “Christmas” update that they just pushed in the last couple days requires HW3 for the FSD visual sneak peak. Traffic lights and road signs will only show up with HW3. Again, if you buy FSD you WILL get HW3 for free, but on Tesla’s terms and timeline. I don’t think you’ll get it for these previews or partial rollouts. You probably wouldn’t be called in for the upgrade until full self driving really is released, end of next year at “pie in the sky” optimistic but really probably two or more years from now.

Right now the only difference with FSD is navigate on autopilot. The main feature is it will change lanes if a car in front of you is going slower then your cruise control speed is set. It will also try to get you over to the lane that your exit is. This is all NAV on AP does that is different than normal AP. There are reports of the lane change being a little hit or miss still, either not able to complete the lane change because of traffic or whatever. Obviously that’s constantly getting better, but it’s certainly not *perfect* right now.

The other FSD feature right now is Smart Summon. The car “will” come to you in a parking lot or back out of your garage or something. Now realistically the car stops and pauses every time it senses a person or car near it (within maybe 3 feet) and will wait for the object to move past before going again. In an empty parking lot it’s a fun party trick and works decent (from videos and reviews I’ve seen). In a busy parking lot (think Walmart or Costco), I have no idea how it would work... I don’t think we’ve seen many YouTube videos showing a real world situation. At one point the car also would pull up to you head on at the curb rather then with the passenger side door parallel to the curb, like a normal human being. Maybe this got fixed with updated maps, but again this isn’t *perfect*, in fact far from it.

Are those two features worth $7,000 for you?

Obviously more features will come, but you can buy FSD at any time and if history is anything to go on, Elon will probably tweet warning of a price increase to encourage people to buy.

I think that’s why many of us here are suggesting not to worry about FSD right now. If budget isn’t a worry, go for it, but otherwise spend that money somewhere else right now, either stretching into an AWD or getting paint protection film applied to keep the car looking amazing.

 

[Sunshine Speed]

I have an August 2018 LR RWD Model3 with HW2.5 . I bought FSD at initial purchase, and I am constantly using two features which are automated parallel parking and autopilot lane changes on highways. I use the turn signal and it changes lanes immediately. Seems to me that autopilot is much worse without that feature, especially on long highway trips. My understanding is that autopark and autopilot lane changes are not available if you don't have FSD. There are other FSD features like "navigate on autopilot" and summon that will eventually be interesting, but right now they're not reliable often enough, so I never use them. My advice is to get a used Model3 with long range battery and make sure it includes FSD and includes a decent warranty, purchased directly from Tesla, any year except 2017.