BYND Beyond Meat out of main

[UkNorthampton]

I once heard a biologist say that every plant is poisonous - to something (a plant rarely benefits from all of it being eaten, fruit are different).

It's just that what is poisonous to one animal isn't poisonous to another. Similarly different people have different sensitivities.

Caffeine, nicotine affect insects. People have different reactions too.
Chilli - Capsaicin - doesn't irritate birds' pain receptors - does for mammals
Chocolate - dogs

A number of humans have found relief from lifelong problems by switching to a carnivore diet. We didn't evolve until recently to cope with large amounts of wheat, rice, alcohol, milk. That's all pretty unnatural. Those who adapted to milk in some regions got a massive advantage once animal husbandry kicked in.

Wild, primitive, primal food is probably best for us plus a huge amount of walking. Seafood might be best of all.

 

[mspohr]

Link studies and sources, otherwise BS.

That is, until another study comes out refuting the results.

I forget, are eggs, wine, and chocolate bad for me this year or not?

I'm not your research assistant. Google it

 

[JRP3]

Link studies and sources, otherwise BS.

Conclusions and Relevance​

Vegetarian diets are associated with lower all-cause mortality and with some reductions in cause-specific mortality. Results appeared to be more robust in males. These favorable associations should be considered carefully by those offering dietary guidance.

Vegetarian Dietary Patterns and Mortality in Adventist Health Study 2

Some evidence suggests vegetarian dietary patterns may be associated with reduced mortality, but the relationship is not well established.To evaluate the association between vegetarian dietary patterns and mortality.Prospective cohort study; mortality ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[JRP3]

A number of humans have found relief from lifelong problems by switching to a carnivore diet.

As have those switching to vegetarian and vegan. Since they are all elimination diets to some degree it's difficult to tell if the relief was related to a few specific foods being eliminated or the overall change in diet. However physiology and anthropology suggests that a true carnivore diet was extremely rare for our ancestors and high fiber intake was common.

 

[glide]

Vegetarian Dietary Patterns and Mortality in Adventist Health Study 2

Some evidence suggests vegetarian dietary patterns may be associated with reduced mortality, but the relationship is not well established.To evaluate the association between vegetarian dietary patterns and mortality.Prospective cohort study; mortality ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Some evidence suggests vegetarian dietary patterns may be associated with reduced mortality, but the relationship is not well established.

Wow!

 

[UkNorthampton]

As have those switching to vegetarian and vegan. Since they are all elimination diets to some degree it's difficult to tell if the relief was related to a few specific foods being eliminated or the overall change in diet. However physiology and anthropology suggests that a true carnivore diet was extremely rare for our ancestors and high fiber intake was common.

Humans are adaptable omnivores with differences between individuals. I don't think there's much suggestion that pre-farming humans were vegan or veggie. I believe health got worse after humans became settled, but immobile nomads would be at risk, whereas immobile farmers could survive easier. So there might be survivorship bias.

Moderation in all things, including moderation. Industrialised food, animals fed on grain and soy without a lot of varied pasture (good for K2), and vegan diets all seems unnatural to me.

Humans are weird, we have big brains. It must be hard to get nutrients for growing brains without eating fish and game including offal. Industrialised meat, cereals far from ideal as well.

 

[JRP3]

Humans are weird, we have big brains. It must be hard to get nutrients for growing brains without eating fish and game including offal.

If that were true actual carnivores would be smarter than we are. They are not. The brain runs most efficiently on glucose not protein and fat. Cooked starches likely the easiest sources. And again our ancestors had much higher fiber intakes than we do, you don't get that from a high meat diet.

 

[JRP3]

Some evidence suggests vegetarian dietary patterns may be associated with reduced mortality, but the relationship is not well established.

Wow!

Apparently you don't know how to read a study. The first part of abstract you quoted is just the introduction to the purpose of the study, in other words the study was to further investigate and clarify the relationship of dietary patterns and health. The conclusion I quoted and you ignored summaries the result of the study. I'll repeat it for you again:

Vegetarian diets are associated with lower all-cause mortality and with some reductions in cause-specific mortality. Results appeared to be more robust in males. These favorable associations should be considered carefully by those offering dietary guidance.

 

[UkNorthampton]

If that were true actual carnivores would be smarter than we are. They are not. The brain runs most efficiently on glucose not protein and fat. Cooked starches likely the easiest sources. And again our ancestors had much higher fiber intakes than we do, you don't get that from a high meat diet.

You may have missed the word GROWING, not running. DHA/EPA easier to get from animal (seafood) sources. Seaweed might be an option. I love it. ALA conversion possible, but not sure how efficient. Personally I like finding a lion kill and cracking open the skull/bones with a heavy stone and eating the marrow or brain. But call me old-fashioned.

 

[JRP3]

Personally I like finding a lion kill and cracking open the skull/bones with a heavy stone and eating the marrow or brain.

You do that often?

 

[glide]

I'm not your research assistant. Google it

Right. You’re the person on the internet that posts unsubstantiated claims.

 

[mspohr]

Right. You’re the person on the internet that posts unsubstantiated claims.

We have strayed far from the title of this thread.
Fortunately, there is a more appropriate thread which can answer many of your questions.

We must face facts - meat is the problem

Surely the link between abusing animals and the world's health is now clear Surely the link between abusing animals and the world's health is now clear | Nick Cohen The boast that “when the facts change, I change my mind” is a proud one. “When the facts change, I reinforce my prejudices” is...

teslamotorsclub.com

If you read through these posts, you will find documentation of the ill effects of meat on human health, the environment and the animals.

 

[1208]

Every human being in human history was a vegetarian during their most vulnerable time alive.

Everyone reading this was a vegetarian as a baby, you drank milk, not meat. You did not die from a lack of meat.

To say meat is necessary is anti-science.

 

[bkp_duke]

Every human being in human history was a vegetarian during their most vulnerable time alive.

Everyone reading this was a vegetarian as a baby, you drank milk, not meat. You did not die from a lack of meat.

To say meat is necessary is anti-science.

Can we keep things focused on the finance of this company?

The holier-than-though arguments of some in this thread are nucking futs annoying.

 

[JRP3]

Can we keep things focused on the finance of this company?

That's like saying Tesla discussions should never mention the science behind the technology or point out the fallacies of the anti EV crowd.

 

[bkp_duke]

That's like saying Tesla discussions should never mention the science behind the technology or point out the fallacies of the anti EV crowd.

Speaking as a scientist, the science behind climate change and EVs is MUCH more robust than the "science" to support synthetic meats. If you REALLY want to go down that road, I'll state here what I have already stated in this thread: there is LITTLE evidence to support ANY health benefits of synthetic meats over natural meats. Why, you will ask? Because they are so highly processed to get a similar taste that you introduce tons of molecular changes to the "veggies" that are known to be as bad, or worse, than natural meats. Specifically, partially hydrogenated vegetable oils and excessive salts.

So, basically, your comparison is not really valid. You are trying to extrapolate something that is well-proven (EV usage and climate benefits) with something that is not (synthetic meats and health benefits).

I'll point out that the twinkie is vegetable-based . . . but no one here would call it healthy. Similar applies to synthetic meats. It's the processing turns them from good stuff (veggies), to stuff your body was never designed to use.

 

[mspohr]

Speaking as a scientist, the science behind climate change and EVs is MUCH more robust than the "science" to support synthetic meats. If you REALLY want to go down that road, I'll state here what I have already stated in this thread: there is LITTLE evidence to support ANY health benefits of synthetic meats over natural meats. Why, you will ask? Because they are so highly processed to get a similar taste that you introduce tons of molecular changes to the "veggies" that are known to be as bad, or worse, than natural meats. Specifically, partially hydrogenated vegetable oils and excessive salts.

So, basically, your comparison is not really valid. You are trying to extrapolate something that is well-proven (EV usage and climate benefits) with something that is not (synthetic meats and health benefits).

I'll point out that the twinkie is vegetable-based . . . but no one here would call it healthy. Similar applies to synthetic meats. It's the processing turns them from good stuff (veggies), to stuff your body was never designed to use.

Beyond "meat" consists of vegetables (peas, mung beans, faba beans and brown rice), vegetable fats, minerals (calcium, iron, salt and potassium chloride) and flavors ( beet juice and apple extract). These are all from plants grown in soil and you should be familiar with them. The ingredients are heated (cooked). That's it.
As a scientist, I'm sure you can understand these ingredients and cooking. There are no synthetic or trans fats.
I do not think you need to be afraid of this product.
In comparison to ground beef, it is much healthier since it does not have saturated fat and cholesterol which have been linked to heart disease, etc. (Googleit.)

 

[willow_hiller]

Beyond "meat" consists of vegetables (peas, mung beans, faba beans and brown rice), vegetable fats, minerals (calcium, iron, salt and potassium chloride) and flavors ( beet juice and apple extract). These are all from plants grown in soil and you should be familiar with them. The ingredients are heated (cooked). That's it.
As a scientist, I'm sure you can understand these ingredients and cooking. There are no synthetic or trans fats.
I do not think you need to be afraid of this product.
In comparison to ground beef, it is much healthier since it does not have saturated fat and cholesterol which have been linked to heart disease, etc. (Googleit.)

I think Beyond Meat and other plant-based meat alternatives are better than the animal-based foods they're made to replace, but there is an internationally recognized standard of food processing: Nova groups for food processing

Beyond Meat probably would be considered a group 4 ultra-processed food:

Ultra-processed foods, such as soft drinks, sweet or savoury packaged snacks, reconstituted meat products and pre-prepared frozen dishes, are not modified foods but formulations made mostly or entirely from substances derived from foods and additives, with little if any intact Group 1 food.

Ingredients of these formulations usually include those also used in processed foods, such as sugars, oils, fats or salt. But ultra-processed products also include other sources of energy and nutrients not normally used in culinary preparations. Some of these are directly extracted from foods, such as casein, lactose, whey and gluten.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just a matter of eating it in moderation.

 

[JRP3]

So, basically, your comparison is not really valid. You are trying to extrapolate something that is well-proven (EV usage and climate benefits) with something that is not (synthetic meats and health benefits).

Actually the discussion you seem to be so up in arms about was regarding the amount of plant material vs meat consumed in ancestral diets and the effects of similar consumption in modern humans.

I'll also point out, as I have in the past, that animals take plant material and highly process it in their bodies to produce muscle, i.e. meat. Meat is highly processed plant matter.

 

[bkp_duke]

Beyond "meat" consists of vegetables (peas, mung beans, faba beans and brown rice), vegetable fats, minerals (calcium, iron, salt and potassium chloride) and flavors ( beet juice and apple extract). These are all from plants grown in soil and you should be familiar with them. The ingredients are heated (cooked). That's it.
As a scientist, I'm sure you can understand these ingredients and cooking. There are no synthetic or trans fats.
I do not think you need to be afraid of this product.
In comparison to ground beef, it is much healthier since it does not have saturated fat and cholesterol which have been linked to heart disease, etc. (Googleit.)

Actually, the devil is more in the details. My degree was pretty much just studying metabolism, and as an M.D. as well I had to work side-by-side with several dieticians (they built meal plans for all my diabetic patients), who had their opinions on this as well. The following is a good summary article, and I pull out the ingredients below that should really give you pause:

Beyond Burgers Are Not Healthier Than Beef Burgers And That’s Just The Truth

They may be plant-based, but they don’t contain vegetables. 🧐

www.womenshealthmag.com

Vegan Beyond Meat burgers are just ultra-processed patties that can be bad for our health

While someone might eat a Beyond Meat burger for ethical reasons, it does little for that person's health. In fact, it might be more harmful than good

nationalpost.com

"Here’s the full Beyond Burger ingredients list: water, pea protein, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, cocoa butter, mung bean protein, methylcellulose, potato starch, apple extract, pomegranate extract, salt, potassium chloride, vinegar, lemon juice concentrate, sunflower lecithin, beet juice extract."

Canola oil and refined coconut oil are the ones that really REALLY should give you pause - especially if they have been "heated" or "cooked" prior to adding them in. That's how you "partially hydrogenate" an oil. And to be clear, partially hydrogenated oils are worse for you than natural trans and saturated fats.

Salt, potassium chloride - these are plainly, salts. And like everything else, the devil is in the details here. Anyone with high blood pressure should be looking at the quantity here, and seeing if it within their daily limits (given intake of other foods as well).

Nutrition labels tell all. Compared to a lean patty, there is more saturated fat, and a ton more sodium.

Eat it if you want to feel better about not harming an animal. But don't think that it is better for you, it's not. And it's probably a little bit worse.