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Camera Replacing Radar [when will tesla vision be activated on cars with radar?]
- Thread starter HWF 1st EV
- Start date
_Redshift_
Member
Yeah, the high beams have to be turned on automatically. If those somehow fail to work properly, you might get into trouble. If there is an oncoming vehicle, the high beams DO have to be turned off. God forbid, if there is a coincident situation on the road the same time, causing the system to fail.
When a splatter of mud hits a camera, or rain splatters on to a camera even temporarily, might compromise these systems.
But, a few bucks saved for Tesla per vehicle is awesome, we should all make our sacrifices.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
So...just like if your headlights failed on manual driving at night.
Except with the benefit of the vehicle still being able to see in every direction at once, which a human can't, using lights from anyone elses headlights.
Or is your doomsday scenario going to involve an EMP now that takes out EVERYONES headlights at once?
_Redshift_
Member
A radar could see without needing the high beams. It’s also behind the bumper, shielding it from the elements.
Removal of this safety element to save a few bucks? Nice technological ‘progress’, ain’t it.
And no, not like my headlights failed at night, only the high beams. You ignored the part when I said they DO have to be turned off for oncoming vehicles.
I can understand your enthusiasm for anything Tesla, but it’s polluting your common sense.
_Redshift_
Member
BTW how does seeing in every direction using other’s lights work? Seriously, those are headlights that glare right in the camera when nearby, and when far away, ineffective in revealing things.
I am curious, genuinely, to understand what black magic Tesla has in its system that will see in ‘every direction at night’ using other’s headlights.
Even though I am a long time Tesla owner of two Teslas and a huge fan, I’ve stopped viewing their events mainly because of lack of time, and the experience of too many broken promises and deadlines.
I am curious, genuinely, to understand what black magic Tesla has in its system that will see in ‘every direction at night’ using other’s headlights.
Even though I am a long time Tesla owner of two Teslas and a huge fan, I’ve stopped viewing their events mainly because of lack of time, and the experience of too many broken promises and deadlines.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Quite poorly though- vehicle radar resolution is exceedingly low.
It'd be insanely dangerous to try driving solely using that.
Tell that to the tons of folks whose unheated radar has issues when there's snow on it.
You continue to not understand why it was removed.
Go re-watch AI day. The guy in charge of the team explained it in considerable detail.
It was removed because it was hurting performance by forcing them to fuse a one-direction, low refresh, low resolution, signal with 8 camera feeds.
And no, not like my headlights failed at night, only the high beams. You ignored the part when I said they DO have to be turned off for oncoming vehicles.[/QUIOTE]
Why would that matter?
The same is true when manually driving... the system can operate with normal headlights too BTW-- in fact you can manually turn the high beams off after activating AP and it continues working.
Projection is a thing my dude
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
....again... the same way your EYES would.
Except the camera system gets to have eyes in every direction at once.
Really unsure how you keep getting confused by how light and vision work.
This is simply not true.
If it were, all the dashcam footage at night would be unviewable and the system wouldn't work at all.
Again you appear unclear on how basic light or vision work.
Go stand near a highway at night (safely out of traffic of course).
Can you see things on the road with the light from OTHER cars headlights?
WOW BLACK MAGIC!!!!
Possibly you should study some really basic stuff about normal human vision before trying to understand computer vision?
Kimmi
Member
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Than a human? In that they can see in every direction at once, and react more quickly than you- yes.
So again the system camera-only ought to be safer than just a human driving.
That said- if the fog is so bad a human could not safely drive at all- the car shouldn't be doing so either.
SAEs driving levels, even at L5, never expect or require the system to work someplace a HUMAN couldn't drive safely.
So again the system camera-only ought to be safer than just a human driving.
That said- if the fog is so bad a human could not safely drive at all- the car shouldn't be doing so either.
SAEs driving levels, even at L5, never expect or require the system to work someplace a HUMAN couldn't drive safely.
_Redshift_
Member
I cannot distinguish an object in the foreground If the lights were glaring right in my eyes. I should study ‘some basic normal human vision stuff‘ eh?
I think your avatar image fits you perfectly. Also, stop with the capitalization, you sound like a 16 year old.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Which isn't at all what's happening to the cameras on the car.
For the third time now.
Just view some nighttime dashcam footage and note how the cameras ARE NOT PERPETUALLY BLINDED BY HEADLIGHTS.
I should study ‘some basic normal human vision stuff‘ eh?
Pretty clearly, yes.
I note you've got 30 posts on these forums, ever, and nearly 25 of em are about how Tesla sucks. Weird you would have, as you claimed, bought 2 of em if they're as awful as you seem to think.
Then again you keep claiming things any actual owner would know isn't true (like how any headlights blind all the cameras for example)
_Redshift_
Member
Radar resolution is not important to what it’s supposed to do. Detect impediments on the road. I did not suggest driving only with the radar, completely missing my point. Point was that radar added a level of redundancy. Taking that out, can potentially make the system perform worse. It is not just me, there are many ADAS experts who say the same thing.
Regarding hurting performance - they can spin it any way they want. I don’t buy that it was hurting the performance. It was supplementing the sensors, and if it really was that poor, they would not have included it in the first place!
I‘d urge you to think using common sense, but I think it’s not going to work here.
Continue, dude. Not worth my time arguing with someone who believes everything Tesla says at face value.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It is when you're trying to fuse it with entirely different sets of data with vastly different resolution and refresh rates.
You don't appear to understand how any of this works.
I'd again suggest you stop posting- go watch the AI day presentation where all of this is explained in detail
And then come back with questions on whatever you remain unclear on.
They literally show this happening with real world car data on AI day
Go watch it.
I'm not taking their word- they're showing their work
You keep posting things the actual known facts disprove without having checked those facts.
You can't "common sense" your way to actual science and evidence from the real world my dude.
Though if you wanna go down that silly road- COMMON SENSE says if humans can drive with 2 eyes facing forward, the car can drive even better with 8 eyes facing all directions and nothing else.
_Redshift_
Member
Come to my garage. I’ll illuminate you.
I am a Tesla fan since 2007, when you were probably in High School. I became interested in project Whitestar, ditched my BMW in 2013, bought my first Model S 60 KWh, sans even park sensors
and paid $89K for it. I added home made aero wheels, capable of going 100+ mph over potholes without failing and working well for 8.5 years. Something even Tesla engineers came to look at, because I also happen to work with Tesla on some things, since I run a company that builds a product that’s useful to Tesla.In 2018, I bought my second Tesla. A model 3 with EAP, (with radar, thank god) and LR.
Both my cars are heavily modified for added sound insulation, all put in by me. My Model 3 is much more quiet than new Tesla 3s.
Problem with fans like you is, they think anyone who critiques Tesla must be anti-Tesla, and the only way to support Tesla is to swallow everything they do and say wholesale, at face value.
Anyway, I am done, like I said. Useless to argue with you.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Congrats on getting another basic fact wrong....at least you're consistent
Again your basic claims are fundamentally untrue.
I've posted plenty of criticism of Tesla in the past.
But unlike you I also take the time to actually learn the relevant facts.
You've been told exactly where to find video evidence your claims about radar misunderstand the entire system and are inaccurate...and rather than bothering to educate yourself you just call everyone pointing out you're in error a "fan" who won't listen to your "common sense"
You've said it twice now.
Let's see how long before a third time
If you refuse to educate yourself on how the system actually works, or see the real world examples shown of why removing radar should improve the system overall? Probably so.
Your eyes can fail also while you are driving. Or you get blinded by a high beam. Nothing in life is perfect. Just like how the radar gets blocked by snow ALL THE TIME.
I don't see how mud and rain can splatter on to the cameras when the cameras are in the cabin with you. Can rain and mud splatter in your eyes when you are driving?
_Redshift_
Member
There are cameras outside car. What’s more common around the world? Rain or snow?
All this still misses the point - radar is supplementary. Adds a level of redundancy.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Except it doesn't, because there's a massive amount of data radar, especially automotive grade radar, can not supply.
Redundancy means it can stand in for another component. Radar can not stand in for vision. They do different things in fundamentally different ways.
Radar was making the system worse
Again all this is explained, with real world data showing why radar was removed, in the AI video you keep refusing to watch.
Here's Elon mentioning it again earlier today-
What's really funny about this is the legions of Tesla fan bois in this any many other threads on this site who were claiming all cars had transitioned to "Tesla Vision" as soon as it was included in Tesla's firmware, and that radar had been de-activated in those vehicles that had them.
Which, of course, was total nonsense. The only radar-equipped vehicles that had radars de-activated and replaced by "Tesla Vision" were those with so-called "FSD".
In fact, it's not until update 2022.20.9 that "Tesla Vision" is being added to radar-equipped vehicles *without* FSD.
This is explained at Tesla transitioning its first radar vehicles to 'Tesla Vision'
Note the following statements:
"With update 2022.20.9 Tesla appears to be adding Tesla Vision to vehicles with a radar for the first time. The only other instance that we're aware of in which a radar-equipped vehicle would have Tesla Vision would be if they were enrolled in the FSD Beta program."
Which, of course, was total nonsense. The only radar-equipped vehicles that had radars de-activated and replaced by "Tesla Vision" were those with so-called "FSD".
In fact, it's not until update 2022.20.9 that "Tesla Vision" is being added to radar-equipped vehicles *without* FSD.
This is explained at Tesla transitioning its first radar vehicles to 'Tesla Vision'
Note the following statements:
"With update 2022.20.9 Tesla appears to be adding Tesla Vision to vehicles with a radar for the first time. The only other instance that we're aware of in which a radar-equipped vehicle would have Tesla Vision would be if they were enrolled in the FSD Beta program."
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
<citation required>
Nothing in the previous posts made the claim you insist "legions" of people made.
In fact- zero people in the thread made that claim.
Several folks said such a transition would come in the future
And guess what? They were right. As you're now forced to admit.
Odd you'd bump a nearly year old thread just to make up a fake argument nobody made, and prove yourself wrong yet again.
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