Legacy S Camera Upgrade - (Lost Features) (FSD)

[TSLC]

Questions about older legacy vehicles being offered a camera upgrade to better support FSD.

The car was born as an AP2.0 vehicle now with MCU2/HW3/EAP

Does this impact USS/Radar or the current functionality of EAP on legacy cars?

I stopped updating the car around a year ago just before the switch to Vision, and enjoy all the features of EAP with auto steer speeds up to 90MPH, have the FSD computer and USS/Radar is unchanged as far as I know.

1. Will a free camera upgrade and or software update remove/disable any of my features?

2. Will an accompanying software upgrade remove active and functioning features?

3. Has anyone noticed any difference post this upgrade, positive or negative?

Thanks.

 

[Tam]

Questions about older legacy vehicles being offered a camera upgrade to better support FSD.

The car was born as an AP2.0 vehicle now with MCU2/HW3/EAP

Does this impact USS/Radar or the current functionality of EAP on legacy cars?

I stopped updating the car around a year ago just before the switch to Vision, and enjoy all the features of EAP with auto steer speeds up to 90MPH, have the FSD computer and USS/Radar is unchanged as far as I know.

1. Will a free camera upgrade and or software update remove/disable any of my features?

2. Will an accompanying software upgrade remove active and functioning features?

3. Has anyone noticed any difference post this upgrade, positive or negative?

Thanks.

1. Functions are software dependent. As long as your current software is not Vision-only, your radar will work after the camera upgrade.

2. Yes. The upgrade software will switch you to Vision-only.

3. Some complain more unintentional slowdowns (including phantom brakes) in Vision-only but you'll get more features with FSDb.

 

[TSLC]

1. Functions are software dependent. As long as your current software is not Vision-only, your radar will work after the camera upgrade.

2. Yes. The upgrade software will switch you to Vision-only.

3. Some complain more unintentional slowdowns (including phantom brakes) in Vision-only but you'll get more features with FSDb.

Thanks for this. One additional question, can the upgrade be performed without an update? I know Tesla likes to update after any service, but this is scheduled as a mobile service. I wonder if I can get the upgrade without the update.

 

[Tam]

Thanks for this. One additional question, can the upgrade be performed without an update? I know Tesla likes to update after any service, but this is scheduled as a mobile service. I wonder if I can get the upgrade without the update.

Your concern is justified.

Once your car is at Service Center. It's up to them. The practice is they would update your software against your will, citing warranty compliance.

I have no solution for that.

I assume Mobile Service will do the same even at your home. It's up to the technician so you can ask.

 

[ucmndd]

The only reason to get this upgrade is to get to a hardware configuration that supports FSD. But you don’t want to upgrade your software so you’re clearly not getting/using FSD.

Why bother?

Theres no mandate for a software update to support the new cameras. It’s just a config change in the gateway. Mobile service did my camera upgrade and I don’t remember a software update. But any time you’ve got them fiddling around in there it’s a risk. If it’s that important to you to not update the software, then I’d not risk it for a hardware upgrade that gets you literally nothing.

 

[Tam]

I agree with @ucmndd.

If you want to continue to use your radar, you should not upgrade your cameras.

Your current hardware can't use Vision-only because of the old cameras.

As long as you still have old cameras, your radar continues to work.

Theoretically, you can ask to continue to use radar with the new cameras but that is not guaranteed.

 

[ucmndd]

Your current hardware can't use Vision-only because of the old cameras.

I’m pretty sure even AP 2.0 RCCC cameras have switched over to vision-only in recent releases. Is that not the case?

 

[Tam]

I’m pretty sure even AP 2.0 RCCC cameras have switched over to vision-only in recent releases. Is that not the case?

No. That is not the case.

My 2017 MX is currently on AP 2.0 RCC cameras, HW3, MCU2, FSD 11.3.6 or V2023.26.9 and my radar, summon, auto parking, 90MPH ... still work. The only thing that doesn't work is Vision-Only. I can use TACC and Autosteer but the FSDb option is greyed out. All the functions are just like before. It still stops at all red, yellow, and green lights unless I press my pedal or there's a leading car in front leading the system through the traffic light.

 

[ucmndd]

No. That is not the case.

So OP has avoided upgrading for a year for nothing.

 

[Tam]

So OP has avoided upgrading for a year for nothing.

Exactly! For those still have old cameras and want to continue to use radar, there's no need to avoid updating to the latest firmware.

The firmware detects old cameras and won't install Vision-only. It will continue to update the radar-vision fusion version.

 

[TSLC]

No. That is not the case.

My 2017 MX is currently on AP 2.0 RCC cameras, HW3, MCU2, FSD 11.3.6 or V2023.26.9 and my radar, summon, auto parking, 90MPH ... still work. The only thing that doesn't work is Vision-Only. I can use TACC and Autosteer but the FSDb option is greyed out. All the functions are just like before. It still stops at all red, yellow, and green lights unless I press my pedal or there's a leading car in front leading the system through the traffic light.

Solid. Thanks for the additional information. I will not proceed with the upgrade at this time.

Not interested in anything other than EAP w/ FSD preview, and the car functions perfectly.

Unfortunately, due to the lack of transparency or digestible information on how these different systems interact with software changes from Tesla, I have chosen to proceed carefully before updating my car to reduce the likelihood of a bad experience.

Your X is setup exactly like my S from an hardware standpoint.

1. Any reason why you have chosen to forego the camera upgrade?

2. Any problems with V2023.26.9?

3. I assume the USS system is fully functional on the Radar-Vision fusion version?

Thanks for the helpful details.

 

[Tam]

Solid. Thanks for the additional information. I will not proceed with the upgrade at this time.

Not interested in anything other than EAP w/ FSD preview, and the car functions perfectly.

Unfortunately, due to the lack of transparency or digestible information on how these different systems interact with software changes from Tesla, I have chosen to proceed carefully before updating my car to reduce the likelihood of a bad experience.

Your X is setup exactly like my S from an hardware standpoint.

1. Any reason why you have chosen to forego the camera upgrade?

2. Any problems with V2023.26.9?

3. I assume the USS system is fully functional on the Radar-Vision fusion version?

Thanks for the helpful details.

I used to have FSDb in my former 2018 Model 3 with pure vision and I immediately noticed it was a downgrade in terms of stability and safety, 85mph restriction, and unwanted slowdowns even on highways.

1.That's why I didn't want a Pure Vision System for my 2017 Model X. That's why I don't want to switch to new cameras.

2.No new problems with the latest version that has the new FSDb user interface V2023.26.9. Old problems are still there: It will collide with stationary obstacles, the Autosteer still might swerve for no reasons but not as often, illogical Auto Lane Changes (turning off Navigation on Autopilot solves this problem)...

3.Yes, all sensors including USS still work as before.

 

[TSLC]

I used to have FSDb in my former 2018 Model 3 with pure vision and I immediately noticed it was a downgrade in terms of stability and safety, 85mph restriction, and unwanted slowdowns even on highways.

1.That's why I didn't want a Pure Vision System for my 2017 Model X. That's why I don't want to switch to new cameras.

2.No new problems with the latest version that has the new FSDb user interface V2023.26.9. Old problems are still there: It will collide with stationary obstacles, the Autosteer still might swerve for no reasons but not as often, illogical Auto Lane Changes (turning off Navigation on Autopilot solves this problem)...

3.Yes, all sensors including USS still work as before.

Hoping that this ends up kind of of like the original AP2 rollout, where it gets substantially better over time.

When I purchased the car new, AP2 was laughable compared to AP1, and while I agree there are definitely issues, it is noticeably smoother, more reliable and less skittish than AP1 today.

Hopefully the camera upgrade will be available still, once FSD and Vision only become more useful and confidence inspiring.

 

[Tam]

...Hopefully the camera upgrade will be available still, once FSD and Vision only become more useful and confidence inspiring.

MobilEye said it Pure Vision is a very good ADAS, L2, driver-required system. It says if you want beyond that, it requires sensor fusion.

In the IAA MOBILITY conference 2 weeks ago, it said you can find social media clips among the first 1,000 Premium Customers, then increased to 110,000 Zeekr 001 sedans and 20,000 Zeekr 009 mini-vans so far (all in China).

It shows that it competently avoided colliding with a stationary vehicle blinded around the curve by changing to the next lane (ADAS, Level 2).

GM started to sell hands-free Super Cruise in 2017 and customers got exactly what they paid for.

Now, Ford also sells hands-free Blue Cruise and got very good review from Consumer Reports.

Mercedes is selling L3 (conditional hands-off, eyes-off) in Europe and next year in Nevada and California.

Those hands-free systems are indeed geofenced but have worked as specified since the first day consumers paid for them.

Unless Tesla's philosophy changes, I have no confidence that Tesla will ever get a decent and safe ADAS 2.

 

[Vthoma11]

Questions about older legacy vehicles being offered a camera upgrade to better support FSD.

The car was born as an AP2.0 vehicle now with MCU2/HW3/EAP

Does this impact USS/Radar or the current functionality of EAP on legacy cars?

I stopped updating the car around a year ago just before the switch to Vision, and enjoy all the features of EAP with auto steer speeds up to 90MPH, have the FSD computer and USS/Radar is unchanged as far as I know.

1. Will a free camera upgrade and or software update remove/disable any of my features?

2. Will an accompanying software upgrade remove active and functioning features?

3. Has anyone noticed any difference post this upgrade, positive or negative?

Thanks.

I personally hate that I got the upgrade. Doing so meant my car was equipped for tesla vision. I Hate hate hate it, I can't stress that enough lol. I miss my Radar, vision is so unpredictable. All of the phantom braking, incorrect lane departures etc is annoying and effects your safety score is you utilize tesla insurance. I had let tesla insurance go because of that.

 

[vcor]

The Mercedes (and soon BMW) systems are limited to 37 mph, and only on select roads. I don't know why anyone would compare it to Tesla's FSD.

I've found FSD beta today quite stable on the freeway. I occasionally (once per 200-500 miles) get a phantom slowdown of 2-3 mph, but nothing like the early days of FSD. I'm using a 2022 S with AP3 hardware (not HW4). The radar is off, but I do have ultrasonics, which are still active for parking. I assume ultrasonics are no longer needed or used in FSD, and I'm not sure they were ever used in FSD. I'm currently on FSD 11.4.7.3.

 

[islandbayy]

I personally hate that I got the upgrade. Doing so meant my car was equipped for tesla vision. I Hate hate hate it, I can't stress that enough lol. I miss my Radar, vision is so unpredictable. All of the phantom braking, incorrect lane departures etc is annoying and effects your safety score is you utilize tesla insurance. I had let tesla insurance go because of that.

THIS!

My AP1 Model S handles "everything" (Autopilot) so much better with it's still active radar! ESPECIALLY Inclement weather & night time.

 

[ucmndd]

ESPECIALLY Inclement weather & night time.

This is by far my biggest gripe with vision and current hardware releases.

When I bought my S radar was a selling feature for fog / inclement weather. The car could see BETTER than you could - even the car in front of you. Or at least that was the claim.

On my new Model 3 even the slightest amount of fog or rain severely cripples the system and limits the speed. It’s a joke.

 

[Jonas_man]

Exactly! For those still have old cameras and want to continue to use radar, there's no need to avoid updating to the latest firmware.

The firmware detects old cameras and won't install Vision-only. It will continue to update the radar-vision fusion version.

not anymore. everyone is now stuck at 2023.26.12 until they upgrade their cameras

 

[EddieW]

not anymore. everyone is now stuck at 2023.26.12 until they upgrade their cameras

It's a recall, the ranger swap all my camera's within 10 minutes while he drove off to do another 10 for today...

They automatically replace all the older camera's when people take their tesla's into service also (without prior notice)