Can I run a 240v (14-50) directly from this meter box?

[Kermee]

Do you think the wall connector is worth the extra $500 + install? Money isnt a huge concern here but Id rather keep the $500 unless there is a great benefit. FYI Im in socal SDGE territory and plan on charging in super off-peak hours (12-6a). My roundtrip commute during weekdays is approx 70 miles per day and prob average 20-30 miles per day on the weekend.

Havent purchased the model 3 yet but been doing a TON of research prior! From the sounds of it I would be able to take delivery in 1-2 weeks from order for the RWD black color version.

HPWC will charge at about 44 miles per hour (48A). UMC2 will charge at about 30 miles per hour (32A). If your RT commute is 70 miles per day, that gives you plenty of time to "top-off" during your Super Off-Peak Hours (12A-6A, Weekdays) with either solution.

That being said, the HPWC is a much nicer solution vs. dealing with the UMC2 as @eprosenx said for all the reasons stated. I personally use the UMC2 but it's located indoors (garage) and somewhat "mounted" as if it's a HPWC, but it's not exposed to the elements and very well protected from theft as long as I don't forget to close the garage door when I leave my home. The HPWC operates much more like a Tesla Supercharger in the context of user operation.

1. Get home.
2. Remove charging plug from holster.
3. Hit button to open the charge port door.
4. Plug in.
5. Enter home.

UMC2, assuming you're going to take it in and out of the car when you leave or come home, will turn quickly turn into a hassle. The $500 might be worth the extra investment if you and the Model 3 are going to reside at your residence for the long term.

 

[eprosenx]

Do you think the wall connector is worth the extra $500 + install? Money isnt a huge concern here but Id rather keep the $500 unless there is a great benefit. FYI Im in socal SDGE territory and plan on charging in super off-peak hours (12-6a). My roundtrip commute during weekdays is approx 70 miles per day and prob average 20-30 miles per day on the weekend.

Havent purchased the model 3 yet but been doing a TON of research prior! From the sounds of it I would be able to take delivery in 1-2 weeks from order for the RWD black color version.

My thesis is that the Wall Connector is worth it when parking outside.

I want to always keep a UMC in my car so the delta cost from $300 for a second UMC to a Wall Connector is $200. But then to do a 14-50 you need a gfci breaker which is an extra $100 or so.

Then the wall connector can charge the car at 48 amps vs 32. I love the faster charging. Good for time of day charging limited windows.

You also don’t want to be plugging and unplugging from a 14-50 every day. The receptacles are not rated for it. So if you just use a UMC and leave it plugged in all the time then will you have to worry about it being stolen?

The wall connector is also way more water proof I think.

 

[kmac5855]

My thesis is that the Wall Connector is worth it when parking outside.

I want to always keep a UMC in my car so the delta cost from $300 for a second UMC to a Wall Connector is $200. But then to do a 14-50 you need a gfci breaker which is an extra $100 or so.

Then the wall connector can charge the car at 48 amps vs 32. I love the faster charging. Good for time of day charging limited windows.

You also don’t want to be plugging and unplugging from a 14-50 every day. The receptacles are not rated for it. So if you just use a UMC and leave it plugged in all the time then will you have to worry about it being stolen?

The wall connector is also way more water proof I think.

Ok, thanks for the info!

Theft of the UMC might be a concern for me but cant you just lock it? Are you saying I also shouldnt be disconnecting the UMC every time Im using it and just carrying it in the car?

 

[eprosenx]

Ok, thanks for the info!

Theft of the UMC might be a concern for me but cant you just lock it? Are you saying I also shouldnt be disconnecting the UMC every time Im using it and just carrying it in the car?

There are probably ways you could come up with to secure the UMC physically, but it does not inherently come with any. When connected to the car it is locked to the car, but not when the car is away.

I do not recommend putting one insertion and removal cycle on a 14-50 receptacle every day. They just were not designed for that kind of long term wear. The Tesla connector to the car on the other hand is designed for TONS of insertions.

 

[Nocturnal]

Looks more like a combo box:

Hmm, could be. I haven't run across any of those in the past.

Ok, thanks for the info!

Theft of the UMC might be a concern for me but cant you just lock it? Are you saying I also shouldnt be disconnecting the UMC every time Im using it and just carrying it in the car?

I don't think the wall charger is worth it for a single car. As far as the UMC, I believe you can find locking outlet covers that should provide a basic level of theft security.

 

[Avid]

Hmm, could be. I haven't run across any of those in the past.




I don't think the wall charger is worth it for a single car. As far as the UMC, I believe you can find locking outlet covers that should provide a basic level of theft security.

I would suggest finding a enclosure that would fully enclose the outlet and allow you to put a cord holder in for the entire umc, that would be the ideal protective box. You have to worry about thief and vandals.

 

[Akikiki]

Ta-Daaaa

 

[eprosenx]

Hmm, could be. I haven't run across any of those in the past.




I don't think the wall charger is worth it for a single car. As far as the UMC, I believe you can find locking outlet covers that should provide a basic level of theft security.

Just note that on the UMC Gen 2 there is a 12 inch adapter that plugs into the UMC body. So even if you lock that adapter into the outdoor rainproof outlet cover, they could still run off with the UMC and its cord trivially.

So if you need to worry about theft then you need a more robust solution like the box above.

The wall connector is connected with a ton of torx screws including one security torx screw.

 

[NickFie]

I look it as dollars vs. hours & aesthetics.

HPWC benefits:

- Easy connect & disconnect.

- Weatherproof.

- Very theft-resistant.

- Looks good. Unless you're into industrial chic.

- Offers faster charging. Those scenarios arise more frequently than I expected. Last weekend, came home from New England in the Model 3 Saturday night. Needed to leave for brunch in NYC pretty early the next morning. No problem getting back to 90% in time. Came home from NYC in the afternoon, son-in-law invited me to dinner before minding grandchildren. Mentioned he wanted to use the Model 3 to pick up my daughter at the airport that evening while I was watching the grandchildren. No problem giving him a Model 3 with a solid charge cushion.

- Negligible wear. The only part frequently connected and disconnected was designed for thousands of duty cycles. This could turn into a financial advantage.

- Portable. Have the electrician run a tied-off neutral to the HPWC at installation. When you leave, the electrician can remove the HPWC and replace it with an appropriately rated socket.

HPWC disadvantage: Higher initial cost.

Outlet benefits:

- Lower initial cost. Cost advantage shrinks if you add dedicated Mobile Charger and security box. Also if long-term use wears receptacle or plug to the point they must be replaced.

Outlet disadvantages:

- Less appealing appearance.

- Extra time to wrangle Mobile Connector during each connect & disconnect.

- Lower max charge rate. May not be important in your situation.

- Unless you install lock-boxes, Mobile Connector is vulnerable when car is connected.

- You may have to replace receptacle, possibly Mobile Connector plug/adapter after hundreds of connect / disconnect cycles. Using a security box and dedicated Mobile Connector as shown above forestalls this problem. Although parts and labor for that solution nearly eliminates the cost advantage...

BTW - I don't know whether code would allow a high power outlet as close to the ground as your grounding rod box.

Finally, ask the electrician about cost difference between wiring for 240 V / 50 Amps and 240 V / 90 Amps. You don't need 90 Amps with a Model 3. However Model S can max out the 90-Amp circuit. Newer BEVs are claiming faster charge rates.

 

[Akikiki]

What if the service coming to the house doesn't provide 90 amp for the WC? You didn't mention that. Otherwise WC and UMC can only both charge as fast as the car can take.

- Negligible wear.? You are not required to remove the UMC. Plug it in once like the WC was installed. Its certainly more portable than the WC but not required to be unplugged/removed.

The statements about advantages and disadvantages don't tell the full story. Those are the only two I am going to point out.

 

[Avid]

View attachment 341258

Ta-Daaaa

You the Man! Did you fab that?

 

[eprosenx]

I look it as dollars vs. hours & aesthetics.

HPWC benefits:

- Easy connect & disconnect.

- Weatherproof.

- Very theft-resistant.

- Looks good. Unless you're into industrial chic.

- Offers faster charging. Those scenarios arise more frequently than I expected. Last weekend, came home from New England in the Model 3 Saturday night. Needed to leave for brunch in NYC pretty early the next morning. No problem getting back to 90% in time. Came home from NYC in the afternoon, son-in-law invited me to dinner before minding grandchildren. Mentioned he wanted to use the Model 3 to pick up my daughter at the airport that evening while I was watching the grandchildren. No problem giving him a Model 3 with a solid charge cushion.

- Negligible wear. The only part frequently connected and disconnected was designed for thousands of duty cycles. This could turn into a financial advantage.

- Portable. Have the electrician run a tied-off neutral to the HPWC at installation. When you leave, the electrician can remove the HPWC and replace it with an appropriately rated socket.

HPWC disadvantage: Higher initial cost.

Outlet benefits:

- Lower initial cost. Cost advantage shrinks if you add dedicated Mobile Charger and security box. Also if long-term use wears receptacle or plug to the point they must be replaced.

Outlet disadvantages:

- Less appealing appearance.

- Extra time to wrangle Mobile Connector during each connect & disconnect.

- Lower max charge rate. May not be important in your situation.

- Unless you install lock-boxes, Mobile Connector is vulnerable when car is connected.

- You may have to replace receptacle, possibly Mobile Connector plug/adapter after hundreds of connect / disconnect cycles. Using a security box and dedicated Mobile Connector as shown above forestalls this problem. Although parts and labor for that solution nearly eliminates the cost advantage...

BTW - I don't know whether code would allow a high power outlet as close to the ground as your grounding rod box.

Finally, ask the electrician about cost difference between wiring for 240 V / 50 Amps and 240 V / 90 Amps. You don't need 90 Amps with a Model 3. However Model S can max out the 90-Amp circuit. Newer BEVs are claiming faster charge rates.

Nice write up!

Two things to add: I mentioned this upthread, but I think it is worth repeating: NEC requires a GFCI breaker on all EV charging receptacles (but not on a hardwired EVSE like a Wall Connector). So this helps fill the cost gap between both solutions.

Then I also want to point out that if you leave you can always just cap off he wires since the next person may want a different EVSE or outlet. Or if you really want to install a receptacle, you can do a 6-50 without a neutral. There really is zero use for a neutral for any L2 EV charging, but for whatever reason the 14-50 has become the common plug.

To @Akikiki s post, the Wall Connector can be installed on any circuit from a 15a to 100a. So if you have limited available ampacity you can set it to whatever the appropriate limit is. Though given this is a townhouse and it is a full 200a feed, there is an excellent chance that there is tons of available capacity. Most townhouses only have 100 or 125 amps.

 

[Akikiki]

You the Man! Did you fab that?

No it came from Home Depot some time ago. Want to see a close up of the inside door? See below.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here... I'm firmly in the HPWC camp.

That box really is great, but costs another $100 online, or a whopping $235 at an industrial supply house. Add that to the cost of the outlet, super high power GFCI, extra UMC, and you are getting pretty close to an HPWC. (I paid just less than 400 for a 24' HPWC on the interweb)

The only significant upside that I can see to a standard outlet is that you'll be able to charge different types of car.

 

[Akikiki]

Guys, this is not a PC vs Apple or iOS vs Android battle. Its just whatever suits your situation. Both have benefits. It was a no-brainer 5 years ago with the HPWC cost $1500 from Tesla and another/second UMC was $650. Many of us plug our car supplied UMC in one time and never need unplug it. But for me because i need only one, the expense of another UMC or WC is unnecessary - there's no benefit in the expense of purchasing the WC. I'd only install one if someone gave me one for my birthday (hint-hint-wink-wink).

Its less about what camp you are in or which one you like best. Liking one over the other doesn't make one a better fit to the situation. I'd like a Z06 Corvette for fun, but it won't haul the same amount of gravel that a F150 will. So although I like the Corvette, the F-150 is a better solution.

If you read the forums regularly you will see from time to time someone starts sweating that their car won't charge. It happens with those that use a UMC or a WC. Which would your rather have on your wall if you suddenly can't charge your car? Generally the advice is "try another one". Well, if you have a WC, you must unwire and wire another one in. If you use 14-50 it just unplug and borrow a fellow owners UMC or use their 14-50. Its pretty simple and fast to help find your own answer. Testing your WC could mean buying another or taking your WC to a friend's out and opening his 14-50 outlet to test your WC. If he will let you. So, in this example, 14-50 may not be pretty but its easier to diagnosis a UMC problem than a WC problem. Its a more 'what's your pleasure" choice. Of course both these paragraphs are applicable to only having a 50/60 amp circuit for the connector. Otherwise this scenario is mute. So don't beat me up for my either or explanation about UMC vs WC.

 

[eprosenx]

Guys, this is not a PC vs Apple or iOS vs Android battle. Its just whatever suits your situation. Both have benefits. It was a no-brainer 5 years ago with the HPWC cost $1500 from Tesla and another/second UMC was $650. Many of us plug our car supplied UMC in one time and never need unplug it. But for me because i need only one, the expense of another UMC or WC is unnecessary - there's no benefit in the expense of purchasing the WC. I'd only install one if someone gave me one for my birthday (hint-hint-wink-wink).

Its less about what camp you are in or which one you like best. Liking one over the other doesn't make one a better fit to the situation. I'd like a Z06 Corvette for fun, but it won't haul the same amount of gravel that a F150 will. So although I like the Corvette, the F-150 is a better solution.

If you read the forums regularly you will see from time to time someone starts sweating that their car won't charge. It happens with those that use a UMC or a WC. Which would your rather have on your wall if you suddenly can't charge your car? Generally the advice is "try another one". Well, if you have a WC, you must unwire and wire another one in. If you use 14-50 it just unplug and borrow a fellow owners UMC or use their 14-50. Its pretty simple and fast to help find your own answer. Testing your WC could mean buying another or taking your WC to a friend's out and opening his 14-50 outlet to test your WC. If he will let you. So, in this example, 14-50 may not be pretty but its easier to diagnosis a UMC problem than a WC problem. Its a more 'what's your pleasure" choice. Of course both these paragraphs are applicable to only having a 50/60 amp circuit for the connector. Otherwise this scenario is mute. So don't beat me up for my either or explanation about UMC vs WC.

Agreed!

It all depends on the situation and what various folks are optimizing for!

In my case, I have no fear of electricity and I have extensive tools. If something goes wrong with my wall connector I can fall back to the 14-50 that I installed as a backup. Or heck, I can hard wire in my emergency charging station (14-50 plug) direct to any panel.

So good discussion about the pros and cons of each is great and each person can make their own choice about which solution best fits their needs!

 

[kelly]

Are you saying I also shouldnt be disconnecting the UMC every time Im using it and just carrying it in the car?

Since you don't have your car yet, you may be thinking that you need to always have the UMC with you in the car "just in case" you need to charge. FWIW, I doubt that you will need to have it in the car all that often. If you are simply driving around San Diego, you will probably have enough charge from your nightly charging that you won't need any additional. If you do need additional charge, is it not likely that a supercharger is handy enough to provide it?

I've had my model 3 since April and charge nightly on a 14-50 in my garage. I never carry the UMC in the car unless I'm going out of town. I've taken it with me on 4 road trips and never used it because supercharging was simpler and readily available.

 

[eprosenx]

Since you don't have your car yet, you may be thinking that you need to always have the UMC with you in the car "just in case" you need to charge. FWIW, I doubt that you will need to have it in the car all that often. If you are simply driving around San Diego, you will probably have enough charge from your nightly charging that you won't need any additional. If you do need additional charge, is it not likely that a supercharger is handy enough to provide it?

I've had my model 3 since April and charge nightly on a 14-50 in my garage. I never carry the UMC in the car unless I'm going out of town. I've taken it with me on 4 road trips and never used it because supercharging was simpler and readily available.

Yup agreed. Many don’t feel they have the need to keep a UMC in the car. I am just a Boy Scout and always want to be prepared.

I would keep the tiny Tesla to J1772 adapter in the car at all times. There are a ton more J1772 charging stations in the wild than there are superchargers.

I have used my UMC away from home many times already (since July) but they were all planned trips. I hate waiting around for my car, so my goal is always to charge at night at my destination. Even if that is only 12a on a 15a circuit at 120v. This works for many of my trips since I tend to go somewhere for the weekend. Even if it takes a couple days to charge back up that is fine.

Again, this all depends on people’s individual needs, desires, and cost sensitivity.

 

[eprosenx]

No it came from Home Depot some time ago. Want to see a close up of the inside door? See below.
View attachment 341312

Thanks for the info!

Did you have to cut the notch in the bottom?

How do you keep the cord from abrading?

 

[kelly]

I would keep the tiny Tesla to J1772 adapter in the car at all times. There are a ton more J1772 charging stations in the wild than there are superchargers.

I agree that this is a good idea. I do it also.