In order of appearance:
- Reduced speed ahead sign
- Police officer and 20 MPH speed limit sign to the left of the bus
- Police officer and 20 MPH speed limit sign to the right of the bus
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Can my Dashcam get me out of this speeding ticket?
- Thread starter WilliamG
- Start date
In order of appearance:
Thank you for the reply, but that looks a lot more than 50 feet to me. That's probably more like 150 feet. I wish I were more convinced by your though-process, is what I'm saying. Thank you for taking the time to spell it out, though.
*EDIT*
Ahh I think I follow you. Your argument is the distance from where the bus gets out of the way to when the speed-limit sign is for me to react?
*EDIT*
Ahh I think I follow you. Your argument is the distance from where the bus gets out of the way to when the speed-limit sign is for me to react?
Last edited:
ibdb
Any excuse for a road trip
This is at the airport, on a road that either goes to the departures, arrivals, or parking. It is not a normal road. A speed survey isn't going to go anywhere because just past that second bend people are loading and unloading cars, driving slowly in and out of traffic, and often stopping in lanes of traffic. It's a special circumstances area where you don't want people driving quickly and coming on stopped traffic around a blind corner.
The signs say to use departures if arrivals traffic is bad, or to use arrivals if departures traffic is bad. They don't mention the speed limit changes. Source: I've been there 4 times this month.
Fighting the ticket might get it reduced, but I doubt it will get tossed out. You're right that cars don't usually slow to 20 by the first sign, but that's still the speed limit at that point, whether people choose to follow it or not. I make a concerted effort to slow there, and even if I'm over 20 (which I often am), I make sure I'm not the fastest. There are usually plenty of cabs and airport shuttles who are willing to be my rabbit in that area. Seeing a police car sitting there, you can believe I'd be driving 20 when I passed him by.
Mrcarcrazy
In need of a shrinking gun to zap a plaid with.
Disclaimer I’m not an attorney.
I’ve attempted to fight bullshit tickets in the past and lost. If you want to fight it, hire an attorney...and expect to lose.
Based on my experiences, do not admit any possibility of guilt, admitting that you could have been going 21mph when you passed the sign means you’re guilty of speeding and the charges will stand. The legal system doesn’t use logic, it uses semantics to make you pay. As much as it pains me, traffic court (especially) is guilty until proven innocent. I used to have many run ins with police (I used to speed often), and found out quickly that the legal system is a money making system more than anything else.
I’ve attempted to fight bullshit tickets in the past and lost. If you want to fight it, hire an attorney...and expect to lose.
Based on my experiences, do not admit any possibility of guilt, admitting that you could have been going 21mph when you passed the sign means you’re guilty of speeding and the charges will stand. The legal system doesn’t use logic, it uses semantics to make you pay. As much as it pains me, traffic court (especially) is guilty until proven innocent. I used to have many run ins with police (I used to speed often), and found out quickly that the legal system is a money making system more than anything else.
devilmountain
Member
In California all roads require them, tickets can still be handed out. However, if surveys are not done or out of date the ticket can be thrown out by a judge.
For the video to be admissible in court, there needs to be a clear chain of custody, and it needs to be established that the footage wasn't altered. Who is going to spend thousands of dollars to hire an expert to appear in court, only for that expert to say, "Yep, I agree with the owner. He was speeding. Just like the officer said."
I feel like people are forgetting that the original post says that the Tesla driver knew he was exceeding the speed limit.
WilliamG. Since I don't know if WilliamG is a guy or a lady, I used then and themself.
I didn't "know" I was exceeding the speed limit. My excuse was to use the sign as my defense (which apparently isn't one, anyway - at least not in WA State). I wasn't super clear, either way. I didn't even see the 20mph sign until way too late because of that large bus/van vehicle moving across my path.
Still weighing my options. I'll let you know how this all works out.
PS I'm a dude. He/him, please.
cpa
Active Member
I think that you are pretty much boned, speaking as an accountant and not a lawyer.
Once in awhile, you can beat a traffic ticket if the government agency did not comply with the proper markings and signage. Because it is an airport, it is unclear whether the roads and parking lots are under local or federal jurisdiction.
I am certain that Washington State has its Streets and Highways Code (or the equivalent) whereby the rules are laid out for proper signage, lane widths, speed limits--the list goes on. It could very well be buried in the Code that these notification signs must be on both sides of a one-way street that exceeds X lanes, or that have merging traffic from one direction. You would be surprised how often the traffic department does not follow the law, or ignores the law due to costs and budgeting constraints.
My last ticket was in 1988. I exited a campus parking lot onto the street by slowing down to a crawl before merging onto the street. I was cited for failure to stop. There had been a stop sign that was partially obscured by overgrown bushes that I did not see. It was nighttime, and it was very foggy. The ground had a faded limit line at the intersection, but there was no paint on the blacktop that said, "S T O P".
I returned to the scene of the crime the following night and took several pictures of the obscured stop sign, the faded limit line, and the absence of any road paint. The heavy fog magnified the fact that there was inadequate notification to the driver. I went to the law library, and I found the relevant law concerning pavement markings and signage. The city did not maintain its streets with proper signage and paint. It was all handed over to the judge as defense exhibits.
I fought the ticket, and despite the pleadings of the officer, the judge dismissed the citation.
Once in awhile, you can beat a traffic ticket if the government agency did not comply with the proper markings and signage. Because it is an airport, it is unclear whether the roads and parking lots are under local or federal jurisdiction.
I am certain that Washington State has its Streets and Highways Code (or the equivalent) whereby the rules are laid out for proper signage, lane widths, speed limits--the list goes on. It could very well be buried in the Code that these notification signs must be on both sides of a one-way street that exceeds X lanes, or that have merging traffic from one direction. You would be surprised how often the traffic department does not follow the law, or ignores the law due to costs and budgeting constraints.
My last ticket was in 1988. I exited a campus parking lot onto the street by slowing down to a crawl before merging onto the street. I was cited for failure to stop. There had been a stop sign that was partially obscured by overgrown bushes that I did not see. It was nighttime, and it was very foggy. The ground had a faded limit line at the intersection, but there was no paint on the blacktop that said, "S T O P".
I returned to the scene of the crime the following night and took several pictures of the obscured stop sign, the faded limit line, and the absence of any road paint. The heavy fog magnified the fact that there was inadequate notification to the driver. I went to the law library, and I found the relevant law concerning pavement markings and signage. The city did not maintain its streets with proper signage and paint. It was all handed over to the judge as defense exhibits.
I fought the ticket, and despite the pleadings of the officer, the judge dismissed the citation.
fasteddie7
Active Member
The judge will side with whatever the officer states in court. You are guilty until proven innocent. You will have to spend quite a sum of money to win.
When I was a teen I went to traffic school with my first ticket (I totally deserved it).
My second ticket was 100% BS. The officer knew it. The judge knew it. But they had each other’s back. I lost. I didn’t have the money to appeal.
My third ticket was also BS (officer hit me with radar gun while I was going under freeway overpass). I knew I was going to lose but I might as well try. Officer didn’t show up and I won.
Fourth and fifth ticket I also deserved. One of which was in a similar situation to yours.
When I was a teen I went to traffic school with my first ticket (I totally deserved it).
My second ticket was 100% BS. The officer knew it. The judge knew it. But they had each other’s back. I lost. I didn’t have the money to appeal.
My third ticket was also BS (officer hit me with radar gun while I was going under freeway overpass). I knew I was going to lose but I might as well try. Officer didn’t show up and I won.
Fourth and fifth ticket I also deserved. One of which was in a similar situation to yours.
Reduce speed AHEAD... when a new sign tells you what to reduce it to not "Reduce speed NOW". To place a squad car AT the new speed limit is unreasonable. The OP loses NOTHING by making a case to the judge. The only way to guarantee a loss is to not try.
It costs ZERO dollars to contest a ticket on your own.
I don't get why so many people are so vested in just giving up... what do you have to lose?
Radar doesn't work at right angles, so if he got you on radar he either shot you before you crossed the speed limit sign or after...did he say which?
Tam
Well-Known Member
That is worth going to court.
You are entitled to know how the speed was recorded:
1) Professional estimation by eyeballing after years of training. And his certification will be shown in court?
2) Radar: As @Magnets! says, there's a right way and wrong way to do it. He needs to tell the court which way did he choose...
MrBadger
Badger out
Evidence:
5 seconds between seeing speed sign and passing it. Actually more, as it was visible much earlier when left of bus(?). The photos are pretty poor, so difficult to judge, but is this a reasonable amount of time to react to the speed sign if you were within the limit on the run up to the sign. Parked Police car would make the situation unusual, so I would say that this would put driver on higher state of awareness - but of course, you were on AP, so you may not have had this extra benefit - no defense.
In UK, our fixed cameras have markings on the road so that you can retrospectively calculate speed of car using a different method. These are similar to sort of markings on last photo. How fast were you going when you passed these. I would think that it would have been sensible for speed gun would be aimed at this approximate distance, thus if you know the distance between the horizontal lines, you can determine your speed.
Untrained eye witness:
From the video, I don't visually detect much of a speed decrease between passing the 20 sign and passing these lines except maybe just as you were about to cross the first set of lines - by which time you were well passed the start of the speed limit.
5 seconds between seeing speed sign and passing it. Actually more, as it was visible much earlier when left of bus(?). The photos are pretty poor, so difficult to judge, but is this a reasonable amount of time to react to the speed sign if you were within the limit on the run up to the sign. Parked Police car would make the situation unusual, so I would say that this would put driver on higher state of awareness - but of course, you were on AP, so you may not have had this extra benefit - no defense.
In UK, our fixed cameras have markings on the road so that you can retrospectively calculate speed of car using a different method. These are similar to sort of markings on last photo. How fast were you going when you passed these. I would think that it would have been sensible for speed gun would be aimed at this approximate distance, thus if you know the distance between the horizontal lines, you can determine your speed.
Untrained eye witness:
From the video, I don't visually detect much of a speed decrease between passing the 20 sign and passing these lines except maybe just as you were about to cross the first set of lines - by which time you were well passed the start of the speed limit.
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