Canceling my reservation

[seattlite2004]

Wow. That was high end at the time. How about the VIC 20? I know I’m a nerd and yes I had both of them wayyyy back when.

I was also rocking the C64 with a floppy disk drive, paperclip (word processor), and a writeman dot matrix printer (okidata was too pricey for me). Oh I also had a modem to connect to bulletin boards...oh yeah... those were the days.

 

[McFlurri]

Kind of like a project estimate, eh @McFlurri and @Tony_YYZ? Estimate the required effort. Then double that estimate. Those are Canadian prices (I'm Canadian), but still... ain't no $35,000 car!

@jkirkwood001

I also want to add this in here too as a fellow member replied to me. (again I feel this is relevant to this topic as well as to why someone may want to cancel...)

But this is effectively my point too. As absolutely amazing as this vehicle is, and its importance in automotive history... this is NOT (yet) the "affordable EV". What this is, is a MUCH cheaper Tesla. Which in its own right is still a great accomplishment. But people my not realize just how expensive this car still is.

That's an....interesting way to look at it. Putting next to nothing down and then financing almost the entire car over 84 months at 3.90% is a bad financial idea in my opinion.

absolutely. I totally agree... to a point though.

But for those who may not know the true total cost... well.. there it is.

However, lets say you put $20,000 plus the $3200 you have to pay at the time of order (which I would think most people believe is a reasonable/ sizable amount of $ for a down payment. Lets do the math for the same 84 month Loan at 3.99%;

Its $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $794.71/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is still $8,595.65 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $66,755.65

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (I wont include the rebate in these numbers because Tesla will not apply the rebate to the purchase price of the vehicle and therefore the $ will have to come from somewhere else. ie. another short term loan in which you have to pay interest on)

Again there is no guarantee the rebate will be here after the election so these calculations still apply to everyone.

More in the reasonable(ish) monthly payment realm.... However, because you bring up the point of "financing almost the entire car over 84 months at 3.90% is a bad financial idea", which I totally agree... Lets do what most people should do when financing ANY car and have a 60 month loan and see if another financial institution will offer a more reasonable rate of 2.99%.

With the same down payment as before effectively $23,200

Its still $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $1,044.80/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is now $4, 528.04 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $62,688.04 (So you save A LOT on interest, but your monthly payments are much higher)

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (see above reasoning)

HOWEVER...

If you invested that $20,000 into a mutual fund or whatever... you could (theoretically) actually make MORE than 2.99%. So it's a worse idea financially to put that $20,000 into the vehicle (which is also a depreciating asset and locks in your potential earning at 2.99% less the depreciating value of the asset)

 

[azred]

Nobody is used to texting while driving. It’s dangerous when anybody does it.

The Model 3 and it’s “take your eyes off the road” interface are built for a future that isn’t here yet: when the car is doing the driving. Until then, it’s unsafe.

OK, I did say most young people text and drive. What I forgot to add is they have a right to do so. Young people are simply exercising their Second Amendment right to drive their two ton cars like the lethal weapons they are.

 

[Asymmetry]

@jkirkwood001

I also want to add this in here too as a fellow member replied to me. (again I feel this is relevant to this topic as well as to why someone may want to cancel...)

But this is effectively my point too. As absolutely amazing as this vehicle is, and its importance in automotive history... this is NOT (yet) the "affordable EV". What this is, is a MUCH cheaper Tesla. Which in its own right is still a great accomplishment. But people my not realize just how expensive this car still is.



absolutely. I totally agree... to a point though.

But for those who may not know the true total cost... well.. there it is.

However, lets say you put $20,000 plus the $3200 you have to pay at the time of order (which I would think most people believe is a reasonable/ sizable amount of $ for a down payment. Lets do the math for the same 84 month Loan at 3.99%;

Its $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $794.71/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is still $8,595.65 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $66,755.65

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (I wont include the rebate in these numbers because Tesla will not apply the rebate to the purchase price of the vehicle and therefore the $ will have to come from somewhere else. ie. another short term loan in which you have to pay interest on)

Again there is no guarantee the rebate will be here after the election so these calculations still apply to everyone.

More in the reasonable(ish) monthly payment realm.... However, because you bring up the point of "financing almost the entire car over 84 months at 3.90% is a bad financial idea", which I totally agree... Lets do what most people should do when financing ANY car and have a 60 month loan and see if another financial institution will offer a more reasonable rate of 2.99%.

With the same down payment as before effectively $23,200

Its still $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $1,044.80/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is now $4, 528.04 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $62,688.04 (So you save A LOT on interest, but your monthly payments are much higher)

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (see above reasoning)

HOWEVER...

If you invested that $20,000 into a mutual fund or whatever... you could (theoretically) actually make MORE than 2.99%. So it's a worse idea financially to put that $20,000 into the vehicle (which is also a depreciating asset and locks in your potential earning at 2.99% less the depreciating value of the asset)

Great post! There is also insurance costs of owning such an expensive car and expensive car to repair.

Did the sum also compared to ICE at todays prices, just doesn't make economic sense. I'm still a Tesla fan but will be awhile yet before buying one.

To me in Kanagaroo dollars M3 is close to $70k+ for the long range model. I'm looking at a near new Subaru Levorg wagon for $29k.

fuel cost are a small % of car ownership. power here is stupidily expensive too

 

[T34ME]

To me in Kanagaroo dollars M3 is close to $70k+ for the long range model. I'm looking at a near new Subaru Levorg wagon for $29k.

fuel cost are a small % of car ownership. power here is stupidily expensive too

So is health care for breathing polluted air, repair and relocation costs for rising sea levels, and insurance costs for natural disasters. Yes, stupidly expensive, much more than the cost of a BEV or the electricity to power it. Penny wise and pound fuelish.

 

[ölbrenner]

fuel cost are a small % of car ownership.

Interesting.

I drive less than the average north American (10,000 miles per year), my oil burner cost me $32K USD, and has consumed $25K in fuel over 11 1/2 years of ownership.

Significant TCO factor imo. Electricity here in California is some of the most expensive in the states, and would have been about 1/2-1/3 of fuel.

 

[John Lamoureux]

I was also rocking the C64 with a floppy disk drive, paperclip (word processor), and a writeman dot matrix printer (okidata was too pricey for me). Oh I also had a modem to connect to bulletin boards...oh yeah... those were the days.

Wow. You had a motherfrieken floppy drive? Best my parents could do was a cassette/tape drive!

 

[daniel]

The Model 3 is not a cheap car, and for many people it's not an affordable car. But it's also not a basic car either. It's the second most expensive car I've ever owned, and it's the most luxurious. (Jeep CJ5, Civic, Prius, Zap Xebra, Roadster) I think that Tesla has decided to leave the "basic EV" market to Nissan, on the grounds that as a giant auto company they are better able to mass-produce a bare-bones EV while Tesla takes the upper end of the market.

I think that even the base 3 at $35K would still have been the second-most-expensive car I've ever owned, after the Roadster, and I expect it would still be more luxurious than any of them.

 

[Hank42]

It's bigger on the inside.

Having more interior space for a smaller exterior has been a goal of car packaging for a long time (it's the main reason transverse engine FWD cars took over the smaller size categories,) and the 3 extends this trend.

Only if the outside is blue!

 

[dhrivnak]

I picked up my Model 3 yesterday and the pickup was quite smooth and the fit and finish is very good as we did not see a single issue. The delivery tech did a good job setting up the car for the wife and he answered my questions. The only issue was the navigation said we were still in CA and the tech said that would clear up with some driving.

The car is great, seats were comfortable for me and my 4’ 11” wife. Visibility is very good and I got to drive it home through the mountains 182 miles. What fun.

The car drives like a dream, quiet at 62-64 DB at 65 mph, powerful, and handles VERY well. It is almost as much fun to drive as the Roadster and puts the Volt to shame. Efficiency is awesome, I started with 307 miles and arrived home with 130 miles, averaging 238 watts/mile, and I was far from hypermiling and I gained about 1000' in elevation.

The only issue was the navigation still said I was in CA even after 150 miles. I did call and was told it could easily take 100 miles and I was driving in an area with very spotty coverage. But when the navigation was still off at home, Tesla Nashville said there was an issue with the GPS and the firmware not loading. So they are coming TODAY with a loaner Model S and are taking my car back. So while I am very disappointed my car is going back so soon, I am very impressed that Tesla literally jumped on the issue immediately.

 

[azred]

The Model 3 is not a cheap car, and for many people it's not an affordable car. But it's also not a basic car either. It's the second most expensive car I've ever owned, and it's the most luxurious. (Jeep CJ5, Civic, Prius, Zap Xebra, Roadster) I think that Tesla has decided to leave the "basic EV" market to Nissan, on the grounds that as a giant auto company they are better able to mass-produce a bare-bones EV while Tesla takes the upper end of the market.

I think that even the base 3 at $35K would still have been the second-most-expensive car I've ever owned, after the Roadster, and I expect it would still be more luxurious than any of them.

I like my Model 3 a lot but am surprised to see anyone use the word luxurious to describe it.

 

[seattlite2004]

Wow. You had a motherfrieken floppy drive? Best my parents could do was a cassette/tape drive!

Bro...my parents also couldn't afford all that stuff. I'm gonna be dating myself....meh....I had to work long summer hours at the local McDs to buy that stuff. I think my parents bought be the printer though...I came up short for that....but I was rocking the dot matrix reports all throughout high school.

Tape Drive....my buddies had that...took so motherfrieken long to save and load files...what kind of files...games we download from local BBS via 9600 baud. Ah the good 'ol days...parents yelling at you for using the phone for hours trying to download all your game files to the Commodore 1541 170KB 5 1/4 floppy. Some of my buddies got tired of floppies and they bought the hard drive...I couldn't afford that so it was floppies for me. I did get a hole punch for the floppies..so I can flip and use both sides....but then my buddies and I put in a switch on the C1541 which defeated the floppy notch sensor so I can use both side of the floppy w/o cutting the notch. Sorry for the ramble...but me and the C64 spent many a long days/nights together...hhhhh.

 

[ölbrenner]

...games we download from local BBS via 9600 baud.

I started out at 1200 baud . Where does the time go?

 

[daniel]

I like my Model 3 a lot but am surprised to see anyone use the word luxurious to describe it.

I'll bet you've never driven a Zap Xebra. My sister, who drives fancy cars would probably not consider the 3 luxurious, but compared to the Roadster or the old Jeep it is super-luxurious. Even compared to the Civic and the Prius, the Model 3 is quite luxurious. I've never had a car with such wonderful seats. (I've ridden in cars with comfier seats, but never owned one.)

I guess it's a matter of what you're comparing it to.

 

[MXWing]

If you invested that $20,000 into a mutual fund or whatever... you could (theoretically) actually make MORE than 2.99%. So it's a worse idea financially to put that $20,000 into the vehicle (which is also a depreciating asset and locks in your potential earning at 2.99% less the depreciating value of the asset)

Ramen + Hot Dogs + Vitamins would generate greater investment returns if my wife would give up shopping at Whole Foods.

I traded up from a 2007 Mazda 3 to a 2017 Model X. At some point, one needs to set aside ROI to enjoy something.

What you don't spend - the ungrateful, have it too easy, whiney little s*its (aka my children) are gonna waste it anyway.

I won't even get into what the government wants to do to reward you for your frugality and long term financial planning and discipline.

 

[MXWing]

I picked up my Model 3 yesterday and the pickup was quite smooth and the fit and finish is very good as we did not see a single issue. The delivery tech did a good job setting up the car for the wife and he answered my questions. The only issue was the navigation said we were still in CA and the tech said that would clear up with some driving.

The car is great, seats were comfortable for me and my 4’ 11” wife. Visibility is very good and I got to drive it home through the mountains 182 miles. What fun.

The car drives like a dream, quiet at 62-64 DB at 65 mph, powerful, and handles VERY well. It is almost as much fun to drive as the Roadster and puts the Volt to shame. Efficiency is awesome, I started with 307 miles and arrived home with 130 miles, averaging 238 watts/mile, and I was far from hypermiling and I gained about 1000' in elevation.

The only issue was the navigation still said I was in CA even after 150 miles. I did call and was told it could easily take 100 miles and I was driving in an area with very spotty coverage. But when the navigation was still off at home, Tesla Nashville said there was an issue with the GPS and the firmware not loading. So they are coming TODAY with a loaner Model S and are taking my car back. So while I am very disappointed my car is going back so soon, I am very impressed that Tesla literally jumped on the issue immediately.

View attachment 289595

I would be outraged if my GPS was permanently stuck in California. You'd never find decent Memphis BBQ that way.

 

[jkirkwood001]

I'll bet you've never driven a Zap Xebra. My sister, who drives fancy cars would probably not consider the 3 luxurious, but compared to the Roadster or the old Jeep it is super-luxurious. Even compared to the Civic and the Prius, the Model 3 is quite luxurious. I've never had a car with such wonderful seats. (I've ridden in cars with comfier seats, but never owned one.)

I guess it's a matter of what you're comparing it to.

Yes, I did look up "Zap Xebra" when you first posted, @daniel!

The first car I bought new was a Pontiac Firefly - a rebranded, 3-cylinder, 1 liter Suzuki Forsa. Amazing car - relatively fuel-efficient, and yet I fit a full-size washing machine in the back with the hatch closed, and fun to drive until someone hit me and totaled it at ~250,000 miles. And the engine never needed work besides oil changes! (OK, I'll stop reminiscing about my early ICEs) But ever since, I appreciate smooth ride, decent acceleration, and automatic anything!

 

[John Lamoureux]

I would be outraged if my GPS was permanently stuck in California. You'd never find decent Memphis BBQ that way.

Or a good lobstah roll on Cape Cod.

 

[seattlite2004]

I started out at 1200 baud . Where does the time go?

You are right..just checked the specs on the VICMODEM 1670 that I had and its maxes out at 1200 baud...my error.

 

[daniel]

Yes, I did look up "Zap Xebra" when you first posted, @daniel!

It's really amazing how such a totally crappy car could have been sooooo much fun to drive. I could be in a miserable mood, and then I got in the car to go to the grocery store, and within a couple of minutes I had the biggest *sugar*-eating grin on my face.

If everybody drove a Zap Xebra there'd be no more hate or intolerance in the world because you just couldn't help but be happy in that stupid little car.