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Carbon Ceramic Brakes

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by GregKo, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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    Hello,

    Has anyone added carbon ceramic brakes to their Tesla Model S? Would love to hear your story, recommendations and warnings.

    Thanks,
    Greg
     
  2. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    Can't think it would work well in a tesla for normal driving.

    CCs rely on heat to make them work properly, the Tesla provides a significant proportion of braking though regen, therefore the brakes are under used compared to an ICE and in the main woin't get hot enough to work optimally. CCs are also typically known to be low on feel unitl they are at working temperature.

    Actually more of an issue is than the pads glaze due to the repeated light braking use.
    I think a better option would be drilled discs to help keep the pad faces refreshed.

    Be interested to hear some of the performance oriented guys on here comment on this.
     
  3. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    Why in the world would you do that? Are you a late braking track star who overheats the brakes going into turn 4 before your battery pack gets heat soaked and your session is over anyway?
     
  4. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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    Calisnow,

    "Why in the world would you do that?"

    Not sure that I will. I have CCs on my 911 Turbo S and they never dust, look great and don't squeal. On both my MS and MX I regen most of the time. I am asking for people who have experience with these ceramic brakes for their opinions. The unsprung weight loss might have some performance enhancements. I'm not sure. Have you installed them on your Tesla?
     
    • Like x 1
  5. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    AFAIK there is nobody selling cc brakes for a Tesla - but then I haven't looked. On the dust issue I personally see almost no dust on my wheels - at least compared to the German cars I owned in the past. BMW's had such great brake feel but as you know the trade-off was huge amounts of brake dust. I've also never experienced brake squeal in my 70D over 16,000 miles of driving so far.

    I think regen really cuts down on the use of the brake pads and so dust is not an issue any more - at least not to me.

    When I want to drive like I mean it the Tesla isn't the car I take out of the garage anyway. Autopilot has completely changed my attitude on the road - I have the mentality of a passenger now.
     
  6. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    My take on almost all performance parts is that they are a complete waste of money for 99% of guys who go to track days. The limiting factor is not the brakes, tires or anything else - it's the lack of driving skill possessed by the ham-fisted meat head behind the wheel (myself included).

    You realize this when you see a professional driver in a 4 banger Miata lapping chumps driving Vipers, Lambos and high spec Vettes or you take a passenger lap with a pro driver / instructor behind the wheel of your own machine and almost pee your pants when you realize what your car with plain-ole-everyday brakes is capable of when the pilot is actually semi-competent.

    Best upgrade is more laps, more study, more instruction. Until you get to that point the performance upgrades are just worthless bling. Even better move is to swallow one's pride, leave the track days altogether and go murder orange cones at the local autocross in a big parking lot. Crawl before walking...

    Carbon ceramic brakes - :snort:
     
    • Like x 4
  7. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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    I agree, almost no dust since I regen brake as often as possible. This takes a little planning, but i'm quite good by now. My P85 has 110K original miles on her. But being a rear wheel drive car (no 4 wheel drive at the time in 2012... the region is much less effective then my p90dl X. The S does get dusty wheels... The X is almost dust free. There is the odd time that I must hit the brakes...Thats when I cringe because I know some dust will hit the wheels...

    Agreed that auto pilot has changed my attitude on the road too.

    All that said, I am hearing about better handling, acceleration, lower road noise as well as no dust on the wheel from a few posts regarding Ceramic Brakes on their Teslas. There is a company making systems for the S and X, but its more then 15K... These folks confirmed that they fit X and S including 19" wheels:

    RB Calipers & CCM-X Rotor Package for Tesla Model S (P/N 2C32 & 2C33)

    I am djust curious who has done this and how much of what I hear is just marketing.

    Greg
     
  8. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Ludicrous + you say, well I got Ludicrous -

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    Unplugged Performance sells a carbon ceramic brake kit @UnpluggedP
     
  9. EvoAuto

    EvoAuto Member

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    I wouldn't mind a set for the dustless benefit but $12K is a bit much for just that.
     
  10. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    Yeah for $12K I can pay the neighbor kid many, many times to come over and spend 10 minutes cleaning the wheels.
     
  11. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    and back to my original point CCs don't work properly until they get hot, due to regen on the Tesla there is low chace they will get hot, so to paraphrase calisnow "pointless bling".

    Drilled discs for better brake feel and deglazing pads would be likely be a better solution.
     
  12. bishoppeak

    bishoppeak Member

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    My ZR1 has ceramic brakes and they work great hot or cold. Drilled rotors are an old school solution for when brake pads did a lot of off gassing during hard track use. These days they are just for show and have no positive effects, especially for street use.
     
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  13. Zooomer

    Zooomer Member

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    Dropping ~70 lbs or rotational weight will drop the car .1 in the 1/4 mile. Not that the S needs it but still cool.
    It will increase range.

    We spend 10k to go from a 75 to a 90. $286 per mile of gained range. At a 3.5 mile improvement (total guess), that would be $1000 of benefit. If you got more.... On a P100, there is no option for more range. You almost can't put a price on gains over the best. As performance increases, so does price generally. I wouldn't expect someone with a 60 to buy this kit but if you're someone who wants the best, it's a decent option.

    The brakes look better. The black backdrop doesn't rust, doesn't dust and makes your rims stand out more.

    The kit performs better. This doesn't matter most of the time but at 100% charge, the S doesn't regen. During this time the brakes on the S are terrible and inadequate.

    15k is expensive and I wouldn't do that. ZZP has a kit coming out with Brembo calipers for under 10 grand. I'll have all the data on it after it's on my car.
     
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  14. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Ludicrous + you say, well I got Ludicrous -

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    I drive through the canyons a lot and when I'm really moving It would be nice to have the piece of mind CC would provide, especially because of how heavy the car is it asks a lot from the brakes....
     
  15. EvoAuto

    EvoAuto Member

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    Amen to that!
     
  16. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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    Zoomer,

    I'd like to read more about these brakes. Can you provide a link?

    Greg
     
  17. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    You have actually experienced brake fade on public roads in your Tesla? Are you sure the first solution isn't just high temp fluid and braided lines which don't expand? If that doesn't help there are always higher spec brake pads - if that STILL doesn't work you're driving at a rate that will get you killed if you aren't on the track.
     
  18. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Ludicrous + you say, well I got Ludicrous -

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    #18 Tech_Guy, Dec 4, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
    When your going down a hill in a very heavy car at a high rate of speed.... its just not a great combo. I can tell by that wonderful smell alone the brakes were not happy to be decelerating the car any more so I backed off to a more tame pace...
     
  19. St Charles

    St Charles Member

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    I am surprised to hear that a 4-piston Brembo system is not perceived as adequate for daily driving, especially with regen acting as a secondary braking system. If brake feel is the issue, a simple pad swap should be more than enough. I can't imagine a situation where high temp fluid is going to improve anything unless someone is repeatedly threshold breaking on a highway.

    The Model S is heavy, but it's not uniquely heavy. The comparable Mercedes-Benz S Class is 4,800 lbs. This car just isn't that special as to require some overly expensive and unique braking system. Sure it can be brought to it's knees with effort, but I think we would have to drive the car in such a way as to terrify our passengers.
     
  20. Zooomer

    Zooomer Member

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    The 4 piston Brembo caliper the S uses is the same as used on Camaro, G8, ATS-V (older years). It's on mid level cars and does a decent job as a premium brake setup. The glaring issue is the weight of those cars compared to the S.

    If you have an old 60, you aren't a buyer willing to spend a lot on performance or range. The brakes work better for you than any other model because your car weighs 4300#, lightest of all models and only a little more than the above GM vehicles. When coupled with regen, your car's brakes are probably better than GM's mid level stuff.

    If you have a P90DL or more, you are a different kind of buyer. You already spent 10k on literally the exact same car but .3 faster. Is that worth it? No, not at all. Do people still buy it? Yeah, because some people want the best, some people believe it's worth it to them.
    The P100 is even more impractical from a financial standpoint. And here's the thing, the braking gets worse because the P100d is 700lbs heavier than the 60. So you do have a downside.

    With the CC brakes you get nothing but benefits. Better braking, cleaner, better looking, faster and more range. Looking at what people are spending for a car over 120k for nothing but performance (and sometimes worse range), it's kind of a no brainer at the right price point for people that like to go fast. I'm actually surprised Elon hasn't offered it already as an upgrade.
     

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