carbon fiber rear spoiler deterioration

[Forty_Two]

The attached pic is my CFS which I bought and fitted 2 years back. Whilst I would be happy to pay to replace this with a ‘good’ one I can’t see that I have anything to lose by having a go at fixing this (a short term remedy but easier).

I found this (vey helpful) post on the Tesla forum
Anyone repair/repaint faded clearcoat on the carbon fiber rear spoiler?.

In that post they say:
1. Apply a high-quality automotive primer
2. Select a clearcoat paint specifically designed for automotive applications. Look for a clearcoat that is UV-resistant

Can you name for those products (a name I can search for any buy)?

Has anyone her (UK) had any (repair / replace) experiences they can share that I can learn from ?

(Before you ask . . . . the answer is NO this is not an OEM product. I bought in on Aliexpress (£100) and at the time argued with myself that all these things (including the car) are made in China so cut out the middle-man. And I have read numerous stories of OEM CFS’s going the same way i.e. I could shell out beacoup bucks for a new replacement OEM spoiler and see the same thing 2 year from now) (Please don’t de-rail this post with self righteous ‘should have known better and paid Tesla to do it’ posts)

 

[Billbrown1982]

Could you wrap it? Feel like that would be easier and probably last longer.

Althought might be tricky now its actually on the car I suppose.

Don't have any experience with painting etc so can't help you there unfortunately

 

[MrBadger]

My son qualified to work on real carbon fibre. I’ve not asked his input yet, but from everything I have heard him say about it is, DO NOT RUB IT DOWN.

When he works on it, it sounds like he has to get suited up in special suits and use specialist down extractors that suck the dust down. Personally he hates working with it, especially hot weather.

This is a company that has to follow health and safety procedures though, but even if a private individual is not bound by these things, it’s clearly very nasty stuff when being worked on to repair. Sounds far worse than what would be the situation when working with other fine dust.

 

[Forty_Two]

My son qualified to work on real carbon fibre. I’ve not asked his input yet, but from everything I have heard him say about it is, DO NOT RUB IT DOWN.
When he works on it, it sounds like he has to get suited up in special suits and use specialist down extractors that suck the dust down.

The helpful post in the link looks like it is suggesting that the rubbing down should be just to take off the top coat of lacquer and not to rub at the carbon fibre. I am still looking to learn but from what I have read so far, I would be rubbing off just enough to prepare the surface for a coat of lacquer.

 

[MrBadger]

I just spoke to my son and showed him your pic and the pics from the other thread.

Caveat, carbon fibre he works on is polished resin. Lacquered finish is used in rare scenarios, such as small parts.

First comment. Buy another one…

Failing that…

Irrespective it must be removed.

Carbon fibre is nasty. You do not want to breathe the dust or get it on your skin - it leaves nasty splinters. So suitable mask and gloves.

From the photos, your damage looks different to the other thread. Looks like front edge is chipped away which he says would be odd considering where the spoiler is. If that is the case, it’s already down to the carbon. The edge must be reprofiled, probably starting with hand sanding a wet foam backed small piece of 800 grade wet/dry then work way back up 1200/1600 etc.

He’s a bit confused at use of primer. If they used lacquer it would be properly prepped/cleaned carbon with automotive UV lacquer on top - which is thicker and would be more durable than what you have. He suggests a couple of coats then polishing it. This also gives option to change finish, such as satin finish.

Or just buy a new one…
Or get it wrapped which could be an option if you didn’t want to remove it.

Sorry, can’t provide any brands.

 

[Forty_Two]

I just spoke to my son and showed him your pic and the pics from the other thread.

Thanks for the helpful post

 

[MrBadger]

Thanks for the helpful post

I just added the bit about wearing suitable mask and gloves.

 

[Forty_Two]

I am surprised at the lack of response I have had on this issue. I presumed I would find others on ere who had expeeinced the same issue and found solutions - am I the only one?

I need to make an informed decision and to do that I need to learn. This item in the Tesla shop is £700. Clearly Tesla get them, from a factory in China and probably pay that factory £7 a piece.

Are there different types (better / worse) carbon fibre – how do I know if product A is better than product B – what do I look for?

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I am surprised at the lack of response I have had on this issue. I presumed I would find others on ere who had expeeinced the same issue and found solutions - am I the only one?

I need to make an informed decision and to do that I need to learn. This item in the Tesla shop is £700. Clearly Tesla get them, from a factory in China and probably pay that factory £7 a piece.

Are there different types (better / worse) carbon fibre – how do I know if product A is better than product B – what do I look for?

OK I'll chip in, but not sure how much help it's going to be! First off, you're wrong about Tesla's profit margin on them. Some Tesla parts look overpriced, others seem very reasonable. It's all about who makes them and how many they make as well as the quality of the part. But the Tesla spoiler is actually a good bit of CF, albeit with a clear coat which tends to peel off over time (mine did it too).

I've worked with carbon fibre and bought in CF spoilers and parts for automotive so I know a little bit about this and the quality varies massively.
It's about the type and thickness of the raw materials, the quality of the mold, the way it's laid, the finish, lots of things.
Just because it comes from China doesn't mean it's cheap and/or nasty. I've imported goods from China too so I know about that as well...

Having said all that, there's no doubt a lot of CF coming out of China is not great. A lot of it is not even CF, it's just a thin patterend overlay on ABS or polyurethane. Once that's got a laquered clear coat on it, it can be difficult to spot to the untrained eye because you can't make out the weave i.e. the texture that real CF has. Some real matt-finish CF doesn't have an obvious weave either, so that confuses even more.

I'm afraid there just isn't an easy answer to your last question unless you have the part in front of you and can examine it carefully to see how it's constructed, how flexible it is and check the finish doesn't have cracks, bubbles, imperfections and the CF itself is a uniform weave. To some extent it is about the price.

Let's look at the Model 3 rear spoiler as an example. I have one on my car which retails at £975. It's made from the best materials by very skilled people in California who are famous for making automotive CF parts for over 50 years.
A quick look on Aliexpress turns up a similar spoiler for a Model 3 for £50 (discounted from £125) + £38 shipping. It's billed as "Spoiler for Tesla Model 3 Real Carbon Fiber / FRP Matte Carbon - Material: High Quality Carbon Fiber, Not the cheap one!!"
IMO, it's unlikely to be what I'd call "high quality"and possibly not even CF. You see, these vendors often lie. But plenty of people don't really care if it doesn't fit exactly or has imperfections, or even if it isn't real CF. That's why there's such a big market for this stuff. If it looks OK from 10 feet and they've saved £600 from buying a Tesla one, they're happy.

In your case, you paid £100 (plus shipping?) so you may have a bargain and it's real CF and was made/finished well (although that leading edge looks decidedly wobbly).
I can't really tell from your photo and it's also difficult to see the extend of the damage to the laquer, but it probably does need some rubbing down. If you rubbed down, primed and clear coated the whole spoiler, you could be looking at £50 just in materials. If you want to just have a go at that small area to disguise the damage a bit, you could just get a £15 can of Hycote Clear Coat and give it a go.

Or just buy a new one every 2 years.

 

[Forty_Two]

I can't really tell from your photo and it's also difficult to see the extend of the damage to the laquer,

Thanks for the reply to my post . . . the damage on my spoiler looks like you could get a finger tip under it and lift it but I cannot - although it looks like it has 'lifted' there is no part of it that can be 'picked' at.
I am happy to spend good money on buying a new one - I DO NOT believe that £700 is a fair price and I AN SURE that the same quality is available somewhere for much less. I need to learn what I need to know to make that decision and that's is my job for this week.

 

[Forty_Two]

Below is an example of one I can buy from a UK supplier for £160 . . . why is this inferior ro the £700 Tesla option?

Tesla Model 3 M Style Carbon Fibre Boot Spoiler 16-Present

FREE SHIPPING! Looking for Tesla Model 3 M Style Carbon Fibre Boot Spoiler 16-Present? We have you covered! Excellent Quality & Great Fitment! COME VISIT US!

www.carbonfactory.co.uk

 

[Whyone]

As stated by people more knowledgeable than I above, real, good quality CF items are not easy nor cheap to produce. If you paid £100, it is unlikely to be a good quality item.

My source of information is a friend who works in the Red Bull F1 composites department.

 

[Whyone]

PS....I mentioned your notion that good quality CF spoilers could be knocked out in China for £7 a pop and....how shall I say....he thought this 'somewhat unlikely' (I paraphrase / expletives removed!!!!)

 

[MrBadger]

Below is an example of one I can buy from a UK supplier for £160 . . . why is this inferior ro the £700 Tesla option?

Tesla Model 3 M Style Carbon Fibre Boot Spoiler 16-Present

FREE SHIPPING! Looking for Tesla Model 3 M Style Carbon Fibre Boot Spoiler 16-Present? We have you covered! Excellent Quality & Great Fitment! COME VISIT US!

www.carbonfactory.co.uk

That so called ‘forged carbon fiber’, is a type of SMC where a compression moulded material is strengthened with short random strands of another material, ie carbon.

It’s very different to properly laid carbon and sounds like it will give a very different look to ‘proper carbon’, at least what many think of as carbon fibre.

I think my son said they used SMC materials in various forms in some of their cars, but ‘only for the cheap bits’. He works for a European car manufacturer which has a large amount of composite materials in various forms in their bodies so cheap is a relative term compared to their properly laid carbon fibre which can be eye watering expensive especially the customer visible parts.

 

[Forty_Two]

Update on where I am up to . . . . I emailed 23 companies in the UK and USA asking why did this happen, what should I look for in a replacement that will ensure this does not happen again AND why is your CFS better than their CFS and I got no clear answers and no guarantee it will not happen again. So what did I learn?

1. It is caused by exposure to sunlight.
2. Better preparation and better quality coating will last longer (but there is no way of knowing if product A is better than product B.
3. There are as many reports of this happening to the genuine £700 Tesla CFS as there is any other companies CFS i.e. paying £700 for the oem Tesla comes with no better guarantees.
4. There is wet lay and dry lay (pre-preg autoclave dry carbon) and the dry carbon is ‘better’.
5. I have narrowed my choice down to two products Karbel and CarbonFactory. Karbel is £60 more and I asked Karbel directly ‘why’ – they replied ‘its just a difference in the quality of the weave and epoxy.’

I have taken the current spoiler off - I had some fishing line in the garage and I worked my way along (it kept snapping) luckily the bottom tape had not stuck, I recall when I was fitting it that the pulls snapped. It took about 30 mins but not roo difficult. Cleaning off the gunk was another story – very difficult.

Karbel or CarbonFactory . . . . . . I am now flipping a coin.

 

[Adopado]

Update on where I am up to . . . . I emailed 23 companies in the UK and USA asking why did this happen, what should I look for in a replacement that will ensure this does not happen again AND why is your CFS better than their CFS and I got no clear answers and no guarantee it will not happen again. So what did I learn?

1. It is caused by exposure to sunlight.
2. Better preparation and better quality coating will last longer (but there is no way of knowing if product A is better than product B.
3. There are as many reports of this happening to the genuine £700 Tesla CFS as there is any other companies CFS i.e. paying £700 for the oem Tesla comes with no better guarantees.
4. There is wet lay and dry lay (pre-preg autoclave dry carbon) and the dry carbon is ‘better’.
5. I have narrowed my choice down to two products Karbel and CarbonFactory. Karbel is £60 more and I asked Karbel directly ‘why’ – they replied ‘its just a difference in the quality of the weave and epoxy.’

I have taken the current spoiler off - I had some fishing line in the garage and I worked my way along (it kept snapping) luckily the bottom tape had not stuck, I recall when I was fitting it that the pulls snapped. It took about 30 mins but not roo difficult. Cleaning off the gunk was another story – very difficult.

Karbel or CarbonFactory . . . . . . I am now flipping a coin.

Guaranteed to avoid future problems… if you just leave it off! Buy a cheap one to stick on if/when you decide to sell the car.