Carlos Ghosn to be ousted

[renim]

Nissan moving to fire Ghosn for financial misconduct | Reuters

FWIW Mr Ghosn companies (renault nissan) have sold more EVs than anyone else in the world.

This seems to be primarily a stock market reporting issue, (not a tax issue) the japanese public are very sensitive to excessive CEO pay, and questions about Ghosn annual pay are the highlight of Nissan's AGM every single friggin year.

So im not surprised because Japanese car companies dont like to pay CEO global pay rates.

 

[S'toon]

...and using investment funds for personal gain and illicit use of company expenses.
Nissan chair Carlos Ghosn arrested in financial misconduct probe | CBC News

 

[lklundin]

FWIW Mr Ghosn companies (renault nissan) have sold more EVs than anyone else in the world

Worth nothing soon, since Tesla under Elon Musk will pass Ghosn's BEV sales some time next year.

 

[nwdiver]

I love how if you're rich enough theft becomes 'under-reported income' or 'financial misconduct'...

 

[renim]

I love how if you're rich enough theft becomes 'under-reported income' or 'financial misconduct'...

'including under-reporting income, using investment funds for personal gain and illicit use of company expenses.'

"Under reporting income " so far seems to be about reporting to share market only.

"Using investment funds for personal gain, "is interesting phrase, reminds me of low interest free loans. If they were repaid, is it a crime?

"Illicit use of company expenses" dude is an expat, everything really should be a company expense. People working away from family home dont like to have to pay for anything.

Wording that is missing are precisely the words theft, tax avoidance. This feels like more of cultural clash between lebanese french european norms VS japanese norms

 

[nwdiver]

Wording that is missing are precisely the words theft, tax avoidance. This feels like more of cultural clash between lebanese french european norms VS japanese norms

Not sure about that. My understanding is that this is the result of an internal investigation at Nissan. Why would waste their resources investigating tax evasion? Charges of tax evasion usually come from the government not the company.

 

[Brando]

Nissan moving to fire Ghosn for financial misconduct | Reuters

FWIW Mr Ghosn companies (renault nissan) have sold more EVs than anyone else in the world.

This seems to be primarily a stock market reporting issue, (not a tax issue) the japanese public are very sensitive to excessive CEO pay, and questions about Ghosn annual pay are the highlight of Nissan's AGM every single friggin year.

So im not surprised because Japanese car companies dont like to pay CEO global pay rates.

Guy makes millions and he thinks he shouldn't pay taxes. He is from France and CEO of Renault as well. Wonder what his French salary is? Millions isn't enough? This is why capitalism will/is failing - [no, not because he can't figure out how to cheat regular tax payers - but because he thinks he doesn't need to pay taxes while all others should].

Why should a company worry about management following the law?
Why worry about anyone following the law?

You want to live in a land of laws? or in a lawless land? It does seem lawlessness is winning. Which may Explain why we have 8 lawless wars.

Just learned US had ~3,500 military operations in Africa last year. I'm sure they didn't kill too many people.

 

[renim]

Carlos ghosn really is the father of the modern affordable electric car. To date there is zero overlap in price between tesla and renault nissan evs. What elon musk is to desireable evs, carlso ghosn is to affordable evs. His decisions and the resulting industry imitation is why the non chinese world has affordable evs. Pretty much all affordable evs are obviously designed and priced in relation to the LEAF and/or ZOE.

So the question becomes what next, carlos ghosn really was the giant in pushing the established auto industry to vehicle electrification.

I suspect his EV input will be permanent at Nissan, but as they say, the king is dead, long live the king.

 

[scottf200]

Autoline has some insight: Ghosn’s Arrest Is Highly Suspicious

At 5:08 Ghosn’s Arrest Is Highly Suspicious

 

[renim]

Not sure about that. My understanding is that this is the result of an internal investigation at Nissan. Why would waste their resources investigating tax evasion? Charges of tax evasion usually come from the government not the company.

Thats the point, 2 of the 3 charges seem the equivalent of SEC violations, and the third charge is to do with an expat's expenses. Nowhere is something like theft actually mentioned. Yet.

Ghosn's dealing with france tax seems a lot shadier than this, and im pretty sure that has passed both french gov tax agents and auditing firms.

 

[nwdiver]

Thats the point, 2 of the 3 charges seem the equivalent of SEC violations, and the third charge is to do with an expat's expenses. Nowhere is something like theft actually mentioned. Yet.

Ghosn's dealing with france tax seems a lot shadier than this, and im pretty sure that has passed both french gov tax agents and auditing firms.

Why would Nissan care about any of that?

 

[renim]

Why would Nissan care about any of that?

Because Nissan is unhappy about its role in the current or future renault nissan alliance. And has taken the opportunity to escalate the realpolitik to the japan french government.

Its turning into a game of go

 

[nwdiver]

Because Nissan is unhappy about its role in the current or future renault nissan alliance. And has taken the opportunity to escalate the realpolitik to the japan french government.

Its turning into a game of go

Yeah... I think I'm starting to see what probably happened...

 

[scottf200]

Autoline has some insight: 5:08 Ghosn’s Arrest Is Highly Suspicious

Related Bloomberg article:
Title: Nissan’s Drama Looks a Lot Like a Palace Coup
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

As my colleague Chris Bryant argued earlier, the alliance has become a lopsided beast — essentially a Japanese company with a Dutch head officeand an outsized stake in the hands of the French government. Renault’s 43 percent stake in Nissan typically accounts for the largest share of its equity-accounted earnings. From the perspective of Japan, the French company can resemble a parasite attempting to control its intrinsically stronger host.

 

[Brando]

laws, ethics, fairness - Why would business want to be bothered. Nor governments.

To me, more reasons why Elon such an anomaly. And why Wall St. and Madison Ave. are so negative about Elon/Tesla.

- safety number one Recall Information
- continuous improvement [as opposed to "good enough"]
- profits necessary but not sufficient
- fairness, transparency of pricing, all pay the same

you get the idea (not a complete list)
After reading above link on recalls check out
Tesla’s recall record is better than most major car companies

PS - How will this impact electrification for this 10 million /year auto group? Battery production concerns?
interesting times.

 

[renim]

Nissan's Ghosn suspected of using firm's overseas houses for free without reporting benefit as income | The Japan Times

honestly, this more looks like a nissan screw up than ghosn. the technicality is that the accommodation was paid (owned) by Nissan and should have been reported in the annual securities reports. for sensitive, repeat high mobility execs, there comes a point where company owned housing is the smart option (as far as risk minimization).

visit a place once is a holiday, visit a place every month or quarter, its a chore. being ceo of french/japan/dutch company must've made a gazillion flying miles.

 

[Brando]

Guy makes millions and he thinks he shouldn't pay taxes. He is from France and CEO of Renault as well. Wonder what his French salary is? Millions isn't enough? This is why capitalism will/is failing - [no, not because he can't figure out how to cheat regular tax payers - but because he thinks he doesn't need to pay taxes while all others should].

Why should a company worry about management following the law?
Why worry about anyone following the law?

Think I must apologize - here is the best article I have read so far
Carlos Ghosn — Greed, Stupidity, or a Coup? | CleanTechnica

 

[renim]

FWIW, Japanese police have about a 99.5% success rate at convictions, whatever they eventually charge Ghosn with, will stick.

having said that, lets look at context
Nissan Renault alliance is looking to post Ghosn future, Ghosn was the glue that held the alliance together, what happens when Ghosn retires?

1) alliance continues as is.
this position seems the most unlikely long term, the alliance always had a temporary feel about it, it was delicately balanced and worked fantastically. culturally there is such great mis match between french and Japanese management/workers etc

2) renault gains more power
this is the obvious long term outlook, renault has blocking stake in nissan, and really can make decision 100% unilaterally. so one potential avenue would be for renault to buy nissan out, using nissan as the collateral for loan financing, and make nissan dividends pay the cost. Basically a leveraged management buy out, but with management being renault. I think Nissan hates the thought of that for its future. but both Renault management and French state would find it alluring.

3) Nissan regains equality
renault sell down stake to equal to nissan's corresponding state. this rewards current renault shareholders, but makes renault the junior player as nissan is much larger than renault. it also removes the french state as controlling nissan (and mitsubishi)
Such an action opens the possibility of Nissan buying a controlling interest in renault, and effectively making Renault a subsidiary of Nissan. Renault is scared of that thought for its future.

I think Carlos Ghosn was pursuing option 2 as his final act of leadership before retiring, thus the move by Nissan.

 

[renim]

Ghosn, Kelly, Nissan indicted over pay to ex-chairman：The Asahi Shimbun

Honestly, the french and the west are going to look at this as pedantic. The charge bought about is that ghosn and nissan misrepresented ghosn renumeration on financial reports because it does not include deferred renumeration.

Hmmm, if this is all there is, the french might just retaliate against the jailing of one of the top businessmen.

I feel that this will backfire, the nuance is that this is a technicality that even the tax office would agree with Nissan (and ghosn) interpretation of the law.

 

[Brando]

Seems most all government around the world becoming/are lawless now.