Change from alcantara to cloth on PUP???

[ikjadoon]

The greater issue, as always with Tesla, is communication and honesty (i.e., intellectual consistency).Shamelessly pulled from the reddit post via the Q4 2017 letter

...we continue to focus on quality and efficiency rather than simply pushing for the highest possible volume in the shortest period of time...

If Tesla has this poor communication addressing a change at ~1000/week Model 3s, how the hell will they deal with these issues at the rate of 10k/week?

"Oh, yeah, the last 20,000 cars, we're not putting in the phone chargers."
"Scroll wheels from the steering wheel have been removed. We never promised anyone those."
"Glass roof is now a 5" by 5" square. Actually, we never promised anyone its dimensions--just that it would have some glass on top of the roof."
"Enhanced Autopilot development has been been put on indefinite hold after an internal management issue. We're excited to share our progress in 2022!"

It's little stuff that makes you realize, "Who is running communications at Tesla? How does your department have such little motivation to update would-be owners, "Yeah, you know the Model 3 interiors on our website that we've shared with every media outlet? LMAO, that ain't happening any more."

 

[Twiglett]

PUP in the S and X does not include Alcantara.

How is that relevant?
Given all the marketing photos and previous production?
Has there been an update from Tesla stating that they’re adjusting what PUP contains?
Have they adjusted the marketing photos to show cheap cloth?
Have they changed the description of PUP to exclude upgraded materials?
Given the No answer to those questions a reasonable person would still expect Alcantara.

As I’m hoping to configure soon I’ve asked for clarification for Tesla, only crickets so far.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It's little stuff that makes you realize, "Who is running communications at Tesla? How does your department have such little motivation to update would-be owners, "Yeah, you know the Model 3 interiors on our website that we've shared with every media outlet? LMAO, that ain't happening any more."

It goes beyond comms, of course. It is too consistent. It goes to culture and policy IMO. Tesla is intentionally vague, I speculate.

 

[Sportstick]

That's like saying GM Bolt and Tesla Model S are the same because they both come from a car factory.

No, and the original logic of my challenge seems lost. The thread title and many comments are misleading. The parallel logic using your example would be, "Tesla is switching from making Model 3 to making automobiles." The thread has taken a branded member of the class of synthetic cloth products and somehow elevated it outside that class. My comment remains that Alcantara is just cloth, so the complaint that cloth is being substitued makes no sense, per se.

If the complaint was that Tesla is going from a cloth people think looks and feels high quality to one which does not, that complaint may be completely valid. But, instead of the ultrasuede fans wanting that klnd of cloth, they are asking for the name-branded Alcantara version which will carry, no doubt, a price premium from Alcantara to Tesla. This is why I still believe the marketing has over-hyped the value of that brand name versus another fabric producer's ultrasuede, which, in a blinded study, most/all would not differentiate.

Lastly, every vehicle manufacturer in the world has language in its sales agreements that they reserve the right to make production changes at any time without incurring any liability, and your sole remedy is to reject the vehicle. A quick Google search found this very all-encompassing verbiage in regards to Model S.

Tesla reserves the right to change any of the terms of this Agreement for any reason. Tesla will provide notice of such changes and, upon receipt of such notice you may cancel your reservation in accordance with the cancellation terms above.

 

[MotoEvCA]

I’ll be driving this car for the next ten years, I don’t see why I should have to accept substandard materials for a supplier hiccup.[/B][/COLOR]

Having Your Cake & Eating It Too - Reality Check Time

Production Hell means Tesla cannot stop the production line or leave thousands of cars sitting at the factory if a delivered supplier part is defective or not available due to logistics scheduling problems by Tesla or the supplier.

The majority of you want your Model 3's NOW and Tesla cannot afford missing their projected volume dates AGAIN.

Large companies (GM, Audi) when designing and manufacturing a car will obtain contracts with multiple suppliers for parts to reduce the risk associated with manufacturing defects or insolvency of these suppliers. Look up the term TRUSTED SUPPLIER to better understand why a substitution may have been necessary.

Tesla is still considered a boutique manufacturer in respect to volume produced and more than likely relies on a single supplier for most of their parts. A material substitution was probably made due to a material defect, delivery/ procurement timing issue, or payment dispute.

Generally, many times suppliers are chosen based on the negotiated payment terms in the contract (longer payment windows). Slow to pay for provided parts = freeze on future part shipments (not saying this is applicable to Tesla).

It is apparent the majority of folks so emotionally connected to Tesla and their vehicles DON'T HAVE A CLUE about automobile manufacture and GET WHAT THEY DESERVE for sheepishly praising Tesla. You trade things (consistency) when you buy from a smaller company without a long manufacturing history and tight cash flows.

For you wanna be LA Law lawyers, if it is not explicitly stated in the boundaries of the purchase contract (and addendums) you probably have no legal right (for alcantara) but will have to throw yourselves at Elon for good-will consideration. There is probably legal language somewhere in the contract you signed that allows Tesla to make material substitutions as needed.

No manufacturer can allow production lines to halt/sit idle for days / weeks due to parts issues - especially Tesla as it relates to the Model 3 and their SINGLE production line. Tesla will have a huge problem on their hands if they did halt production due to interior trim pieces.

Reality Check Time

• Keep on signing contracts without requiring Tesla to put ONE Model 3 on display at some their stores for viewing or test drives
• Keep on signing contracts without reviewing them in detail or adding addendums where needed
• Keep on handing over final payments to Tesla and taking delivery when clear and present flaws are visibly present yet you accept them
• Keep on handing over final payments to Tesla and taking delivery without taking a 15 minute test drive to ensure the car operates as expected

12+ pages of griping about a fabric headliner swap proves people say one thing and act otherwise.

'I trust Tesla with make things right by me'. Keep On Trusting!!!!​

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@MotoEvCA

Fair. But they could communicate this change to customers, offer discounts or future fixes, of the choice to post-pone. With their backlog of orders, should be workable.

Tesla is rather keeping mum and making silent changes as usual, without much consideration for this...

 

[ikjadoon]

If anyone listens to The Tesla Show podcast, this Wednesday they just talked about this looming problem of supplier contracts.

My pulled-out-of-my-ass speculation:

Months ago, Tesla ordered tens of thousands of parts in supplier contracts. Tesla told suppliers "to get ready for a massive production run because we're going to be making tens of thousands of cars each month". A fair number of companies literally grew in size just to accommodate Tesla's gargantuan part orders. This did involve some risk on the supplier's part.

But Tesla's estimate was quite, quite wrong. The original ramp was a complete failure. They expected 5,000 Alcantara headliners this week and the supplier expected to be paid for 5,000 Alcantara headliners. But Tesla doesn't have that payment because they haven't made, much less sold, 5,000 Model 3s in the past six months, much less this past week.

So they cancelled part orders and supplier contracts. A ton. Tens of thousands. They had to. They have no revenue to make payments nor a place to store nearly 20,000 units each of every part in a Model 3, which Elon claims has thousands of unique parts. These are millions of parts.

So the Alcantara supplier likely said, "Yeah, if you cancel this massive production contract we spent months preparing for, we are not interested in ramping back up just for you because who knows if your next estimate is right? Find someone else."

And Tesla hasn't found someone else.

 

[Jopo43]

WOW file this under big deal!!! NOT!!!!
Please everyone rush to cancel!!!


I JUST WANT MY CAR!!!!!

 

[jerjozwik]

For those with Fabric interiors, is the 10th letter in your VIN number a "H or J"
H = 2017, J= 2018
Wondering if they flipped the switch for 2018.

i have a J and ultra suede interior.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@ikjadoon I can buy that.

Again, Tesla could have chosen to be open about the change, though. They were not.

 

[derekmw]

My MS has black alcantara headliner, visors, and accents on dash. I would love to continue to have this in the M3 but my biggest want would just be that it's black. I can't stand the standard two tone with black interiors. I never understood why a black interior car still had to come with light grey headliner. It never made sense to me.

Having said that, it definitely would leave a sour taste in my mouth if I expected Alcantara based on the pictures we've seen but mine got delivered with a mix or completely switched to the 'textile' materials we're now seeing.

 

[phil0909]

So the Alcantara supplier likely said, "Yeah, if you cancel this massive production contract we spent months preparing for, we are not interested in ramping back up just for you because who knows if your next estimate is right? Find someone else."

This sounds very plausible. So the bigger question is, how many other suppliers got burned and are reacting the same way? Suppliers of much more important parts. And how long will our Model 3's be delayed while Tesla attempts to re-build it's supply chain?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If the complaint was that Tesla is going from a cloth people think looks and feels high quality to one which does not, that complaint may be completely valid.

I think that *is* the complaint, in essence. Alcantara brand is just a part of the complaint. Had they simply switched to another ultra-suede, that would be a much smaller thing. We don't even know it was Alcantara at all originally.

Instead they seemed to revert to regular roof that can be expected to ship with non-premium cars too (so not premium interior throughout) that looks completely different than in the demo cars, photos and Design Studio. That's the biggest problem IMO.

 

[schonelucht]

Large companies (GM, Audi) when designing and manufacturing a car will obtain contracts with multiple suppliers for parts to reduce the risk associated with manufacturing defects or insolvency of these suppliers. Look up the term TRUSTED SUPPLIER to better understand why a substitution may have been necessary.

Tesla management specifically indicated that for the Model 3 they were able to source for tier 1 suppliers.

 

[MotoEvCA]

@MotoEvCA

Fair. But they could communicate this change to customers, offer discounts or future fixes, of the choice to post-pone. With their backlog of orders, should be workable....[/QUOTE]

Put yourself in Tesla's shoes for a moment.

• 'This is a minor substitution..... No need to let the critics make a meal of it.... The customers have been historically very accommodating when it comes to our manufacturing 'challenges'.
• Discount? Just finding a substitution at short notice is going to cost a ton of money. We are not Audi or Mercedes
• We put out to the market the volumes we will achieve for the Model 3 - and have missed them. We have to meet our production targets
• We told investors that our automation of Model 3 production was going to result in lower manufacturing costs compared to our competitors NOW were have supplier issues halting automated production.
• We don't have enough cash / credit to buy large volumes of parts and have them sitting in the warehouse - Just-In-Time delivery will have to do
• If we offer customers the option to postpone, we will not hit our sales targets and the creditors may not give us future loans at attractive rates

This is what Elon meant by Production Hell en réalité

 

[schonelucht]

So they cancelled part orders and supplier contracts. A ton. Tens of thousands. They had to. They have no revenue to make payments nor a place to store nearly 20,000 units each of every part in a Model 3, which Elon claims has thousands of unique parts. These are millions of parts.

Tesla has $3.5B in the bank. If Tesla would have a cash flow problem to purchase a few ten thousands alcantara interiors, the big thread here would be not about them but about how are we going to get our $1000 back because Tesla is filing for chapter 7/11/13 protection.

 

[outdoors]

I have H and it has Alcantara.

 

[MotoEvCA]

Tesla management specifically indicated that for the Model 3 they were able to source for tier 1 suppliers.

Suppliers rely upon subcontractors and supply chains for parts could come from anywhere. We do not know the reason for the material substitution but please continue to believe that EVERY PART OF THE MODEL 3 IS COMING FROM A TIER 1 SUPPLIER for a car starting at $35K USD.

 

[Sportstick]

I think that *is* the complaint, in essence. Alcantara brand is just a part of the complaint.

Possible, but as all we have on this forum are words, I'm going by what folks are writing, and the thread name took us down the wrong path from the start, amplified by those insistingly brand-loyal to the skins of the mystical and unique Alcant creatures which roam the hills of Italy.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Put yourself in Tesla's shoes for a moment.

• 'This is a minor substitution..... No need to let the critics make a meal of it.... The customers have been historically very accommodating when it comes to our manufacturing 'challenges'.
• Discount? Just finding a substitution at short notice is going to cost a ton of money. We are not Audi or Mercedes
• We put out to the market the volumes we will achieve for the Model 3 - and have missed them. We have to meet our production targets
• We told investors that our automation of Model 3 production was going to result in lower manufacturing costs compared to our competitors NOW were have supplier issues halting automated production.
• We don't have enough cash / credit to buy large volumes of parts and have them sitting in the warehouse - Just-In-Time delivery will have to do
• If we offer customers the option to postpone, we will not hit our sales targets and the creditors may not give us future loans at attractive rates

This is what Elon meant by Production Hell en réalité

Oh I don't doubt those are amongst the reasons they had to come to this end-result.

All rationalizing aside, IMO they didn't have to. It was a choice. A moral choice too. They IMO didn't choose quite ethically...