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Charging at RV parks

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In some situations, charging at RV parks is the most efficient way to get from A to B on a road trip. When that is the case here are a few things you should know:

RV parks are a relatively low-margin business, and electrical infrastructure is a large capital expense. Wiring, breakers, and receptacles are sized based on normal RV use, which is pretty light compared to the continuous draw of a charging EV. Therefore, RV park owners have a very valid point when they refuse to allow EV charging, or they charge extra for EVs. The extra cost is not so much due to the extra cost of the electricity delivered, which is something, but not very much, but the extra cost in meeting saftey standards for a continuous draw of a high level of power. Larger gauge wire of higher quality, and more robust fixtures are not cheap.

Tesla owners could move the conversation forward by gently educating RV park owners that it is possible to control the amperage that our cars draw from their pedestals. We are in this together, and can approach the situation as a problem to be solved in the interests of everyone. The impact to the electrical infrastructure of an RV park is significantly less with an EV charging at 24 amps instead of 32 amps (which is the default using the standard NEMA 14-50 adapter on 50-amp service at an RV Park). Both amperage levels will get the job done overnight, but dialing down the amps you draw on the screen under "Charging" so that you just meet your target charge level in the time you have, will benefit everyone. Park owners will be less likely to see overheating or damage, and Tesla owners will be less likely to cause damage to undersized electrical infrastructure.

An example: Long Range Model 3s and Ys have about a 75 kWh battery pack. Therefore, to go from 15% state-of-charge to 80% is a difference of 65%. Sixty-five percent of 75 kWh is 48.75 kWh, or rounding-up, 50 kWh. Twenty-four amps times 230 volts is 5.52 kW. Twelve hours times 5.52 kW gives you 66.24 kWh, enough to get about +88% charge, or more than enough in almost any situation. Fast charging is great, but when you are spending the night anyway, all that really matters is that you have enough juice the next morning to get to your next charging station!

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Relying on RV campgrounds is fine for now, but the real solution is hotels providing overnight L2 charging. It's growing rapidly but it's not there yet. I'm also fine to pay for such service, just not an unreasonable amount. If it could be on par with local DCFC rates that would be fine. Preferably less.

Next issue is that model 3/Y batteries are going to become far less common as time progresses. Battery capacity is only going to grow. 6 to 7 kW charging won't cut it in ten years. 11kW will be required and we'll likely want to have full 19kW charging for big vehicles like the Hummer, or whatever "road tripping" family vans we see in the 2030s that have 300kWh batteries.
 
extra cost in meeting saftey standards for a continuous draw of a high level of power.

True but, another very big problem is these outlets are not protected by GFCI circuit breakers. These breakers are mandatory per the NEC for all EV circuits that terminate with a plug. Therefore, technically, you cannot charge at an RV park since almost all of them use standard breakers. So in addition to the valid issues raised by @MikeGracz they would also have to install GFCI breakers.
 
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And what happens when EV RV's become a thing?

Yeah that's rapidly approaching. I've been wondering if the campsite pedestals that have 15, 30, and 50 amp service are typically wired as separate circuits or if there's really only a 50 amp circuit that then has smaller breakers in the box. If they're separate back to distribution then there's a smidge more power.

But I seriously doubt any campground is already prepared for multiple ev RVs to be charging simultaneously. Even smaller van sized RVs would have several hundred amp hours of battery. Charging on a 50amp circuit would take days if you were trying to use the RV while charging it. But that's ok because isn't that the point of being in an RV? Go somewhere and hang out for a while?
 
Hmm. This is timely.

My little camper doesn't need 50 amps. The most it draws is 9 amps running the AC, fridge and water pump all at once which rarely happens. Those sites are also typically in wide open areas, which I'm not a fan of. Shade is good at a campsite! So the sites I book are 120v 30 amp sites. IIRC the Tesla mobile connector can support more than 15 amps on 120v. Being able to charge at 24 amps @ 120v would be good. It doesn't sound realistic based on this discussion. Even 20 amps would get enough overnight to get to a public fast charger.
 
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So the sites I book are 120v 30 amp sites. IIRC the Tesla mobile connector can support more than 15 amps on 120v. Being able to charge at 24 amps @ 120v would be good. It doesn't sound realistic based on this discussion. Even 20 amps would get enough overnight to get to a public fast charger.
This works at most "30 amp" (TT-30) outlets at RV parks:
You can charge at about 10 mph.
 
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Yeah that's rapidly approaching. I've been wondering if the campsite pedestals that have 15, 30, and 50 amp service are typically wired as separate circuits or if there's really only a 50 amp circuit that then has smaller breakers in the box. If they're separate back to distribution then there's a smidge more power.
IF (big IF) the RV park is wired to 2023 NEC compliance, then each 50A pedestal should have a capacity of 12kVA per 551.73(A)(1). Of course that does not ensure the receptacle and terminations are sound. The 1990 through 2002 NEC had a 9.6kVA requirement, so the Code panel appears to be aware of higher loads at RV parks.
 
RV Parks my favorite charger network.....we did two cross-country trips with a camper (MYPOD) and chevy bolt, hit the campground everyday. some are very welcoming of EV's some are ill educated. an example was a chain, we asked if there's a 220v avail, the worker kept stating we only have 50 amp...throtthling down your amps is a key to keeping us in good graces of campgrounds....our camper required 30 amp (if using AC, otherwise use 120/or just run off the battery. not just talk to the manager, but also the maintenance person.
we did have a few run in's where people were coming in with (XXXX) eve and running max amps, tripping breakers, so we have to be proactive.
love camping, but really as mentioned they teeter on narrow margins, and if you abuse, they go away. some of the campgrounds in the keys had meters, and you were allotted X power, and if you went over, they charged you. personally we tossed like a 20 to them for letting us use the juice.
 
IF (big IF) the RV park is wired to 2023 NEC compliance, then each 50A pedestal should have a capacity of 12kVA per 551.73(A)(1). Of course that does not ensure the receptacle and terminations are sound. The 1990 through 2002 NEC had a 9.6kVA requirement, so the Code panel appears to be aware of higher loads at RV parks.
Is NEC compliance at RV parks for a 12kVA continuous load?
 
Most RV parks with which I'm familiar are loose organizations. They probably aren't compliant with much of anything.
Since all of the wiring is outdoors and mostly buried, I doubt it is a big deal though.
It could be a medium deal, though- I inadvertently had been charging my Bolt at 32 amps on 250v (nominal- IRL low 240s volts using a Clipper Creek, now Enphase, EVSE) served by buried 10/3 solid copper cable (in Alaska). When I re-routed and replaced it I discovered that there had been a little bit of heat stress to the insulation- it was discolored and brittle in places. That continuous load at just over the wire's rated capacity of 30 amps really can make a difference. The worst that likely would have happened would be a short and a tripped breaker...but nobody really wants to deal with that. I would bet donuts that many RV parks have similar 10/3 wire serving 50 amp pedestals.
 
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It could be a medium deal, though- I inadvertently had been charging my Bolt at 32 amps on 250v (nominal- IRL low 240s volts using a Clipper Creek, now Enphase, EVSE) served by buried 10/3 solid copper cable (in Alaska). When I re-routed and replaced it I discovered that there had been a little bit of heat stress to the insulation- it was discolored and brittle in places. That continuous load at just over the wire's rated capacity of 30 amps really can make a difference. The worst that likely would have happened would be a short and a tripped breaker...but nobody really wants to deal with that. I would bet donuts that many RV parks have similar 10/3 wire serving 50 amp pedestals.
10/3 wire serving 50 amp pedestal= BARFFFFFF
with your best David Lee Roth voice, scream---I'M ON FIRE
We were camping (Japan) 100V 15 AMP, with my super industrial Portable EVSE with a NEMA 5-15 PLUG ( it's japan so have to add a ground wire) the plug to the adapter was getting warm 32C or 89F, IN TOLERANCE sure, makee me nervous---yes, went through adapter bag, grabbed a 8 GA 3 pole cable, swapped, temps at 27C 80-ish F...15 amps, and the breakers were comfy.

one campground we stayed at had wiring from the 70's all 30 amp, well EV's start showing up more, and the breaker panels are getting hot.
some of these places can/won't upgrade the grid to their sites.
we were interested in buying a campground in east washington, they just layed fresh 30 amp and 50 amp pedestals cause they were seeing an influx of electric cars...
I'm glad to see EV'ers out exploring more, it's a post WWII or route 66 vibe.
 
It could be a medium deal, though- I inadvertently had been charging my Bolt at 32 amps on 250v (nominal- IRL low 240s volts using a Clipper Creek, now Enphase, EVSE) served by buried 10/3 solid copper cable (in Alaska). When I re-routed and replaced it I discovered that there had been a little bit of heat stress to the insulation- it was discolored and brittle in places. That continuous load at just over the wire's rated capacity of 30 amps really can make a difference. The worst that likely would have happened would be a short and a tripped breaker...but nobody really wants to deal with that. I would bet donuts that many RV parks have similar 10/3 wire serving 50 amp pedestals.
Yes, but it won't make the news and the city/county will never know.
Back when I used to take a lot of roadtrips in our Roadster, before there were very many public chargers, I would generally dial-down the charging current. Of course, the Roadster didn't have any telematics to tell me if it had stopped charging so I would have to physically have to look at it to see if it had stopped. Since it took ~6 hours to charge, I didn't want to hang around some RV park so I'd go on hikes and didn't want to have to keep coming back to the RV park any more often than necessary. Of course, there were times when I did return, only to find that the breaker had blown and I had wasted several hours when I could have been charging.
My, how times have changed; some times, even for the better!