Charging from a portable inverter generator while in remote area

[Jasper7821]

I have a question about grounding, from reading the manual from my generator do I have to ground the generator if I run it from inside the bed of the truck.
Since there's no Superchargers along my route, I'm trying to make it to the lake and back home pulling my boat.
I can make it both ways but I have to drive one way 55mph and home at 50mph to make it.
I'm wanted to try and get 25 miles or so out of the generator while the truck sits in the boat parking for 4-5hrs. This way I can drive 65mph both ways.

By reading this below from the manual, will I be able to charge with the generator in the bed of the truck, or does it have to be on the ground. I'm also running a small fan facing the generator just to help cool the generator in the 110-115 degree temps.

Grounding
Your generator must be properly connected to an appropriate
ground to help prevent electric shock.
WARNING
Failure to properly ground the generator can result in electric
shock.
A ground terminal connected to the panel of the generator has
been provided (see Controls and Features for terminal location).
For remote grounding, connect a length of heavy gauge
(12 AWG minimum) copper wire between the generator ground
terminal and a copper rod driven into the ground. We strongly
recommend that you consult with a qualified electrician to ensure
compliance with local electrical codes.
Neutral Floating*
– Neutral circuit IS NOT electrically connected to the frame/
ground of the generator.
– The generator (stator winding) is isolated from the frame and
from the AC receptacle ground pin.
– Electrical devices that require a grounded receptacle pin
connection will not function if the receptacle ground pin is not
functional.
Neutral Bonded to Frame*
– Neutral circuit IS electrically connected to the frame/ground of
the generator.
– The generator system ground connects lower frame crossmember
below the alternator. The system ground is connected
to the AC neutral wire.

 

[dafish]

Skipping the code warrior discussion, I can tell you I have charged Tesla's with a 10KVA portable generator from the bed of my truck.

I also have a Ford Powerboost and run things from it WO/grounding. Nor is it expected to be.

Now the PB has a CT (GFCI) breaker in it and those are adequate from a user perspective. Does your inverter generator? If so I would expect you to be adequately protected from uh-oh moments.

 

[Jasper7821]

Skipping the code warrior discussion, I can tell you I have charged Tesla's with a 10KVA portable generator from the bed of my truck.

I also have a Ford Powerboost and run things from it WO/grounding. Nor is it expected to be.

Now the PB has a CT (GFCI) breaker in it and those are adequate from a user perspective. Does your inverter generator? If so I would expect you to be adequately protected from uh-oh moments.

I'm not sure, this is it.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Champion-Power-Equipment-Champion-4650-Watt-RV-Ready-Inverter-Generator-with-Quiet-Technology-and-CO-Shield/5013242417?idProductFound=false&idExtracted=true

 

[ATPMSD]

Note the inverter must have a THD <5%, preferable < 3%, otherwise the car will not accept the power. Could have changed so be sure to test.

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm not sure, this is it.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Champion-Power-Equipment-Champion-4650-Watt-RV-Ready-Inverter-Generator-with-Quiet-Technology-and-CO-Shield/5013242417?idProductFound=false&idExtracted=true

You may be lucky to get 25 miles out of this generator. It's only 120V 30A. I think that you'd be lucky to get 5 mph from it. And it will require a third-party adapter for the mobile connector, Tesla doesn't have a TT adaptor.
If you were to charge at 120V 15A, you'd get less than 2 mph.

For long term operation like this, I'd highly suggest derating the generator by at least 50%.

And it sounds as you may even be thinking about running this enclosed on the bed, don't even think about it. While the absence of humans does reduce the carbon dioxide issues, you don't want the generator breathing it either, it needs fresh oxygen to run.

Dropping from 65 to 60 mph should increase you range by about 10%!

 

[Jasper7821]

Note the inverter must have a THD <5%, preferable < 3%, otherwise the car will not accept the power. Could have changed so be sure to test.

I searched THD and found this, conventional generators are 9-10%, but inverter generators are 3-5%. That's all the info I found, no idea what this generator is, nothing listed in the specs.

 

[Jasper7821]

You may be lucky to get 25 miles out of this generator. It's only 120V 30A. I think that you'd be lucky to get 5 mph from it. And it will require a third-party adapter for the mobile connector, Tesla doesn't have a TT adaptor.
If you were to charge at 120V 15A, you'd get less than 2 mph.

For long term operation like this, I'd highly suggest derating the generator by at least 50%.

And it sounds as you may even be thinking about running this enclosed on the bed, don't even think about it. While the absence of humans does reduce the carbon dioxide issues, you don't want the generator breathing it either, it needs fresh oxygen to run.

Dropping from 65 to 60 mph should increase you range by about 10%!

I'm just going from what the specs on the generator said, and figured we're on the boat around 4-5hrs and at about 26-28 amps I got 25 miles or so.
It's only temporary as they're building a Supercharger only a few miles off my route and hopefully it will be up in a month or so.
I was going to put it in the bed and have a fan blowing on it to help cool and blow the fumes out of the truck. And it has a CO detector that will shut it off if it detects it.
I could put the generator on the ground, just thought in the bed with a fan is easier. I would think the fan would keep fumes out.
I also bough the adapter that'll work for it.

Amazon.com

This is all wishful thinking and was hoping it would work.
And I'm already driving 55mph to the lake and 50mph home, which is taking close to another hour roundtrip from driving 65 or so.

 

[Jasper7821]

I searched THD and found this, conventional generators are 9-10%, but inverter generators are 3-5%. That's all the info I found, no idea what this generator is, nothing listed in the specs.

Looks like this one is under 3% THD

4650W Inverter with CO Shield® – Champion Power Equipment

Champion's 4650-watt inverter generator features CO Shield® carbon monoxide auto shutoff system. The advanced technology and design will improve the way you power your life. Our feature-packed power solution includes Quiet Technology, Extended Run Time, Economy Mode and Clean Power, plus you can...

www.championpowerequipment.com

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm just going from what the specs on the generator said, and figured we're on the boat around 4-5hrs and at about 26-28 amps I got 25 miles or so.
It's only temporary as they're building a Supercharger only a few miles off my route and hopefully it will be up in a month or so.
I was going to put it in the bed and have a fan blowing on it to help cool and blow the fumes out of the truck. And it has a CO detector that will shut it off if it detects it.
I could put the generator on the ground, just thought in the bed with a fan is easier. I would think the fan would keep fumes out.
I also bough the adapter that'll work for it.

Amazon.com

This is all wishful thinking and was hoping it would work.
And I'm already driving 55mph to the lake and 50mph home, which is taking close to another hour roundtrip from driving 65 or so.

When you say that you are getting 25 miles at 26-28 Amps, what are you connected to. I'm going to guess a 240V circuit,
This generator is ONLY capable of 120V, Half you power gone.
From 4650W Wireless Start Inverter with CO Shield® – Champion Power Equipment

Outlets	120V 30A (TT-30R), 120V 20A Duplex (5-20R), 12V DC Automotive, Parallel

Look closely at the fuel consumption

Gasoline Run Time at 1/4 Load	14 h.

I suspect that you are intending to run it at full load. I doubt if it would even run for 3 hours without running out of gas.

And it definitely won't run enclosed, may not even run long if the tailgate is not down.

"Our 4650-watt inverter generator features CO Shield® carbon monoxide auto shutoff system."
If there's a build-up for CO, it's going to shut down.

And in the manual, there's

NEVER operate or start the generator in the back of an SUV, camper, trailer, truck bed (regular sides, flat or other configuration), under staircases, stairwells, next to walls or buildings or in any other location that will not allow for adequate cooling of the generator or for the proper exit of the exhaust flow from the muffler system.

And max current on a 30A connector is only 24A. But again, the TT connector is 120V

You may feel as if I'm raining on your parade, I just want you to make sure that your parade can get to the finish line, doing what you want it to do.

 

[Jasper7821]

When you say that you are getting 25 miles at 26-28 Amps, what are you connected to. I'm going to guess a 240V circuit,
This generator is ONLY capable of 120V, Half you power gone.
From 4650W Wireless Start Inverter with CO Shield® – Champion Power Equipment

Outlets	120V 30A (TT-30R), 120V 20A Duplex (5-20R), 12V DC Automotive, Parallel

Look closely at the fuel consumption

Gasoline Run Time at 1/4 Load	14 h.

I suspect that you are intending to run it at full load. I doubt if it would even run for 3 hours without running out of gas.

And it definitely won't run enclosed, may not even run long if the tailgate is not down.

"Our 4650-watt inverter generator features CO Shield® carbon monoxide auto shutoff system."
If there's a build-up for CO, it's going to shut down.

And in the manual, there's

NEVER operate or start the generator in the back of an SUV, camper, trailer, truck bed (regular sides, flat or other configuration), under staircases, stairwells, next to walls or buildings or in any other location that will not allow for adequate cooling of the generator or for the proper exit of the exhaust flow from the muffler system.

And max current on a 30A connector is only 24A. But again, the TT connector is 120V

You may feel as if I'm raining on your parade, I just want you to make sure that your parade can get to the finish line, doing what you want it to do.

I'm calculating on currently using about 555 wh/mile and running watts of 3,650. Yes, it'll probably run out of gas before 4hrs.
If the fan is blowing the exhaust away from the generator, I would think the CO monitor won't shut it down.
And the adequate cooling was going to be from the fan. And if it did shut down, then I'd just move it to the ground next time.
I assumed that the plug will take 30 amps from what the manual says.
120V AC, 30A RV (NEMA TT-30R)
May be used to supply electrical power for
operation of 120 Volt AC, 30 Amp, single phase,
60 Hz electrical loads.

And again, this is all wishful thinking, but it's worth a try. Even if i got 15-20 miles, I'd maybe be able to drive 60mph both ways.
And again it's only temporary as the Supercharger will hopefully be up and running in a month.

 

[ATPMSD]

Actually:

120v * 24a (80% of 30a is the maximum allowed) * 80% efficiency (typical for 120v) = 2,300 watts per hour. Assuming your 555 wH/Mi consumption will equal about 4 miles per hour. So in 4-5 hours you will see 16 to 20 miles.

 

[dafish]

CO an issue in an open bed truck? Unlikely.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Champion-Power-Equipment-Champion-6500-Watt-RV-Ready-Open-Frame-Inverter-Generator-with-Quiet-Technology-and-CO-Shield/5013242145

That gets you to 240v, which usually means less cable gauge and more flexibility. Having actually done this, let me say I used a 20 some year old generator. Certainly not as clean a wave as a good inverter. Nor would I worry about the 80% rule. You're pushing things at 4+ hours, but assuming outdoor use I'd personally be OK w/it for the few times it will get used. I'd run what I suggest above at 20 amps and be done w/it.

Is that enough to give you the speed back? Dunno. Is the little time saved worth the hassle if a SC is coming soon? Hard to believe.

 

[Watts_Up]

Would using solar panels be a possibility for charging your EV while parked?
(Is there any trees where you park?)

DIY: A drivable solar rooftop for my Tesla Model Y (20 to 75 miles per day)​

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm calculating on currently using about 555 wh/mile and running watts of 3,650. Yes, it'll probably run out of gas before 4hrs.
If the fan is blowing the exhaust away from the generator, I would think the CO monitor won't shut it down.
And the adequate cooling was going to be from the fan. And if it did shut down, then I'd just move it to the ground next time.
I assumed that the plug will take 30 amps from what the manual says.
120V AC, 30A RV (NEMA TT-30R)
May be used to supply electrical power for
operation of 120 Volt AC, 30 Amp, single phase,
60 Hz electrical loads.

And again, this is all wishful thinking, but it's worth a try. Even if i got 15-20 miles, I'd maybe be able to drive 60mph both ways.
And again it's only temporary as the Supercharger will hopefully be up and running in a month.

I think that you may not be including the 500+W that the vehicle uses just to stay awake when charging.

The generator indeed seems to be able to provide 120V 30A, but there's not a Tesla adapter for the mobile connector. A third party does have one.
And because NEC code, it will derate the connection to 80% max load, 24A 120V.

Having a generator run at max power for extended times has been known to cause premature failure. I try to never load one over 50%, even better around 25%.

Hopefully you will test before you get in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Jasper7821]

Actually:

120v * 24a (80% of 30a is the maximum allowed) * 80% efficiency (typical for 120v) = 2,300 watts per hour. Assuming your 555 wH/Mi consumption will equal about 4 miles per hour. So in 4-5 hours you will see 16 to 20 miles.

If I can get that, that would be perfect and save me close to an hour just by going a little faster round-trip.

Actually:

120v * 24a (80% of 30a is the maximum allowed) * 80% efficiency (typical for 120v) = 2,300 watts per hour. Assuming your 555 wH/Mi consumption will equal about 4 miles per hour. So in 4-5 hours you will see 16 to 20 miles.

That's enough to let me drive a bit faster.

 

[Jasper7821]

CO an issue in an open bed truck? Unlikely.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Champion-Power-Equipment-Champion-6500-Watt-RV-Ready-Open-Frame-Inverter-Generator-with-Quiet-Technology-and-CO-Shield/5013242145

That gets you to 240v, which usually means less cable gauge and more flexibility. Having actually done this, let me say I used a 20 some year old generator. Certainly not as clean a wave as a good inverter. Nor would I worry about the 80% rule. You're pushing things at 4+ hours, but assuming outdoor use I'd personally be OK w/it for the few times it will get used. I'd run what I suggest above at 20 amps and be done w/it.

Is that enough to give you the speed back? Dunno. Is the little time saved worth the hassle if a SC is coming soon? Hard to believe.

I'll try the 4650 and see how it goes

 

[Jasper7821]

Would using solar panels be a possibility for charging your EV while parked?
(Is there any trees where you park?)

DIY: A drivable solar rooftop for my Tesla Model Y (20 to 75 miles per day)​

That was my original idea as I have lots of surface area from the front of the truck to the back of the trailer and I could secure soft panels to the truck and trailer. But, it's too expensive for all the equipment.
And there's no shade anywhere, so it would be ideal if it wasn't a few thousand dollars or more.

 

[Jasper7821]

I think that you may not be including the 500+W that the vehicle uses just to stay awake when charging.

The generator indeed seems to be able to provide 120V 30A, but there's not a Tesla adapter for the mobile connector. A third party does have one.
And because NEC code, it will derate the connection to 80% max load, 24A 120V.

Having a generator run at max power for extended times has been known to cause premature failure. I try to never load one over 50%, even better around 25%.

Hopefully you will test before you get in the middle of nowhere.

If it doesn't work out, and come back to the boat and barely any miles added. I would just drive home slow, or drive the 25 minutes out of the way to the Supercharger and go home the long way.