charging hardware suggestions for driveway

[jjrandorin]

So what's the plan for the masses who don't have garages?

Thats a good question, actually, but all we can do is speculate because we dont know what Tesla plans. With that being said...


My speculation is, Tesla likely considers the demographic of "No garage / Parking space next to the residence available to charge at home, but still want to charge at home" to be a very niche demographic.

In many cases, either a person can charge "at home" either in their garage, or somewhere fairly close, where they can have electrical run to", OR, will be in a situation where they will be supercharging / using other chargers.

The number of people who fall into "I can charge at home, but I need a 40-50 foot cable to do so" is probably small enough that tesla feels that need can be met by that person engaging in whatever they need to do for their specific circumstance (Installing a wall connector close to their parking, or getting a long cable from a third party, or whatever else their specific situation dictates).

 

[Rapa Nui]

Tesla likely considers the demographic of "No garage / Parking space next to the residence available to charge at home, but still want to charge at home" to be a very niche demographic.

I suppose this all depends on where you live, but around here, the above seems completely ridiculous. Elon has said he doesn't want Teslas to be exclusive toys for the rich and the ultimate goal is to get the price so low that you'd just buy one anyway, even if you don't care about carbon or acceleration. And even if it ends up being some existing manufacturer that corners the market on the cheap electric vehicle, people have still got to plug those suckers in.

I'm not saying everyone who has an enclosed garage is the 1%, but there's a huge amount of housing that isn't either the classic single family home or an apartment with a parking garage.

Also, certainly around here, employers that offer charging stations are as rare as 13-leaf clovers.

If you're trying to convince people to buy something new that they're already wary of, telling them they're going to have to hack their own solution just to refuel seems a big ask.

 

[jjrandorin]

I suppose this all depends on where you live, but around here, the above seems completely ridiculous. Elon has said he doesn't want Teslas to be exclusive toys for the rich and the ultimate goal is to get the price so low that you'd just buy one anyway, even if you don't care about carbon or acceleration. And even if it ends up being some existing manufacturer that corners the market on the cheap electric vehicle, people have still got to plug those suckers in.

I'm not saying everyone who has an enclosed garage is the 1%, but there's a huge amount of housing that isn't either the classic single family home or an apartment with a parking garage.

Also, certainly around here, employers that offer charging stations are as rare as 13-leaf clovers.

If you're trying to convince people to buy something new that they're already wary of, telling them they're going to have to hack their own solution just to refuel seems a big ask.

Im not understanding what you are saying. The car comes with a mobile charging connector. You dont have to have an enclosed garage to be able to plug in somewhere within 20 ish feet of where you park your car for the evening, if you own your residence. If you dont, then you will likely be using superchargers (so a longer cable doesnt matter).

 

[Rapa Nui]

In my case, the issue is that I don't park my car within 20 feet of an exterior outlet of any kind, and even getting an outlet installed on the outside of the house is too far away. Presumably there is room in the average garage to set up a charger reasonably close to the charging port, although even in this situation, I've seen that people have had to get fairly creative so the cable doesn't cross the path of another vehicle. Additionally, if the charger/outlet is in the garage, it is protected from the elements.

If I had only the mobile charger, as it stands, I would have no way to charge the car at home. If I parked the car in a typical garage, I'd at least (most likely) have access to a regular power outlet.

Charging at work is not an option, so if I want to charge at home, I need an electrician to come out and install something somewhere, although it's not immediately obvious which something or where it should go. If I'm a Tesla proponent, I'm willing to deal with this issue (and the added expense), but it's a lot to ask of someone who is used to the "convenience" of stopping at a gas station on the way home. At least they are used to that, and it doesn't require a lot of thought...or someone to come out and work on their house.

 

[jjrandorin]

Ok, I see what you are saying now. I have a couple of core beliefs on this however.

1. Every product is not ment for "everybody" meaning that there is no reason to expect that everyone will or should be driving an EV vs a gas car unless its something they want to do, until they cant get gas vehicles any longer.

2. If you told someone they could jump through a few hoops and have a "personal gas pump" at their home, most people would at least explore how they could make that happen.

The "plan for the masses that dont have garages" is either to use public chargers, figure out if they want to explore trying to charge at home, or continue to drive a gas vehicle. All valid choices.

 

[mrau]

is it still true there's a 30% REBATE on charger installations in the US? If it's a write-off, I don't itemize,

It is a 30% TAX CREDIT. No need to itemize, but you do have to file a tax return. The credit is 30% of the cost of equipment and labor to install charging unit. Max credit is $1,000 (if your total cost was about $3,300). Save your receipts. This tax credit will expire at the end of 2021.

 

[rjpjnk]

Can you trench a cable run out to where you park your car and install a Wall Charger there on a post?

 

[Rapa Nui]

Every product is not ment for "everybody" meaning that there is no reason to expect that everyone will or should be driving an EV vs a gas car unless its something they want to do, until they cant get gas vehicles any longer.

There is every reason to expect the vast majority of vehicles will be electric in the near future. And even if that isn't true, that's Tesla's goal, and even if the timeline is off, the problem will have to be solved at some point. Tesla is pretty forward-thinking in most ways, I would hate to see it go down Apple's exclusive path, (eg, changing the ports on every iteration of each device).

This should be a no-brainer. You should be able to say, "I want that car" and there should be an obvious path. I know the tech is still new-ish, but it seems like this is a fundamental issue that should get tackled early on in the process.

I can't imagine Elon saying "this car isn't for you if you have too much shrubbery"!

It is a 30% TAX CREDIT.

Thanks, that is good news. I wonder if it would cover the panel replacement I'll need to get up to code.

Can you trench a cable run out to where you park your car and install a Wall Charger there on a post?

Nope on both the trench and the post. Neither solution works.

 

[jjrandorin]

I still dont understand what you are saying. I thought I did, but I dont. You can either charge at home, or at one of the many superchargers. It seems that you are equating the length of the charging cable, from tesla directly, as some sort of impediment to charging.

I must be misunderstanding, because that couldnt be what you are saying. "The masses" will either charge at home, or charge at public chargers / superchargers (or if neither of those work for them for some reason, purchasing a ICE vehicle).

 

[Rapa Nui]

You can either charge at home, or at one of the many superchargers. It seems that you are equating the length of the charging cable, from tesla directly, as some sort of impediment to charging.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Well, in a roundabout way. It's about ease of charging in a non-garage environment, and that boils down to the length of the cable.

It's really more about the garage than the cable length, but the cable length is the thing Tesla has control over, and they aren't offering anything in the way of flexibility.

Of course, in the bigger picture it's about selling a vehicle with a different set of maintenance issues to a population that's set in their ways. Charging at a supercharger that takes much longer to refuel at than a gas station is extraordinarily unappealing to anyone who isn't motivated to get an electric vehicle for other reasons.

The response to that is, "well, just charge at home", but it turns out that's a complicated logistical problem for many potential customers. If the solution were simply "just buy this $500 thing and have it installed by someone who will know exactly what to do", that's not a great answer, but it's a simple one.

The issue is that it's NOT entirely clear what to do, there's a very good chance an electrician won't be prepared to answer the question most effectively either, and for some people the whole thing is just impossible.

 

[jjrandorin]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Well, in a roundabout way. It's about ease of charging in a non-garage environment, and that boils down to the length of the cable.

It's really more about the garage than the cable length, but the cable length is the thing Tesla has control over, and they aren't offering anything in the way of flexibility.

Of course, in the bigger picture it's about selling a vehicle with a different set of maintenance issues to a population that's set in their ways. Charging at a supercharger that takes much longer to refuel at than a gas station is extraordinarily unappealing to anyone who isn't motivated to get an electric vehicle for other reasons.

The response to that is, "well, just charge at home", but it turns out that's a complicated logistical problem for many potential customers. If the solution were simply "just buy this $500 thing and have it installed by someone who will know exactly what to do", that's not a great answer, but it's a simple one.

The issue is that it's NOT entirely clear what to do, there's a very good chance an electrician won't be prepared to answer the question most effectively either, and for some people the whole thing is just impossible.

There isnt a licensed electrician on the planet who can not inform people of what would need to happen at their residence to get some form of charing there. The cost will vary, but in general, an electrician will be able to tell someone what they need to do to get charging at their residence. Condos and such have more challenges, but single family homes dont, for the most part.

If an electrician cant tell you what needs to happen to get charging at your residence, then they shouldnt be an electrician. It doesnt need to be a wall connector, its no different than putting in an outlet for a piece of shop equipment or something.

 

[Rapa Nui]

If an electrician cant tell you what needs to happen to get charging at your residence, then they shouldnt be an electrician.

The electrician needs to be familiar with the particular requirements of the vehicle you're purchasing. They will surely know how to install whatever box you ask them to, but the average electrician probably wouldn't have specific advice regarding whether or not a Tesla-branded charger is the best choice. Mine surely didn't.

He also didn't have any immediate advice regarding the placement of the box, because that's not an issue of being a competent electrician, that has to do with the specifics of cable storage and such.

We all know you need some kind of charger outlet within a reasonable range of the car, but it takes some study to figure out which is the best choice, and it's dependent on the model of vehicle.

 

[rjpjnk]

Nope on both the trench and the post. Neither solution works.

Well if you can't install the charger cable near where you park the car, and you also can't park the car near your garage, and you still want to charge from home, then how about an EVSE with a longer cable or an extension cord?

An extension cord like this maybe:

Amazon.com: Ceptics 25-Ft 50-Amp Auto EV Extension Cord (Recommended for Tesla Users | Tesla Model 3/S/X/Y) | Nema L14-50 - UL Listed - 50A, 125/250V: Home Improvement

Buy Ceptics 25-Ft 50-Amp Auto EV Extension Cord (Recommended for Tesla Users | Tesla Model 3/S/X/Y) | Nema L14-50 - UL Listed - 50A, 125/250V: Charging Stations - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

I realize it's not convenient to have to roll it out and back up again every day, but I see no other option.

If this doesn't work either than perhaps an EV is just not the right choice?

 

[Black306]

How about something like this…

Outside EV Charging Kiosk

My parents bought a 80yo suburban farmhouse in 1955. I loved the oak shingles. When freshly painted, the cuts from the circular saw made them look brand new! When I went back to look at the house, in 2010, I saw the new owners covered it in vinyl siding! UGH! I see your beautiful roof as a...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Rapa Nui]

Well if you can't install the charger cable near where you park the car, and you also can't park the car near your garage, and you still want to charge from home, then how about an EVSE with a longer cable or an extension cord?

I think the proper solution is the Tesla Wall Charger, but the cable juuuuust barely reaches. That's what caused the indecision.

It would be nice if there were a longer cable available, but there isn't. The Tesla-specific extension cords seem to be vaporware and perhaps not approved by Tesla. Building my own box would leave room for flexibility, but I don't want to leave the mobile charger out in the elements.

So the current plan is to get the charger as close to the car as possible, but the configuration of the house, shed, and driveway make this complicated.

I was naive to the complexity of the issue. Solving one problem creates another. I didn't expect "maybe just don't get the car" to be a potential suggestion. At first blush, this would seem like a fairly simple issue to resolve.

Also in thinking about Tesla's part in the issue, another thing they have control over is the location of the charging port on the vehicle. I read some analysis and most people seem happy with the Leaf's placement of the charger in the center front of the car. It seems to be the most flexible location, although every location creates issues for some people.

None of this is rocket science, but it's a complexity that isn't immediately obvious when you hear someone say, "It's so convenient, I just charge my car at home and never go to fuel stations!".

How about something like this…

That's one sweet birdhouse!

I've got to leave the cable exposed for the most part, so I'll need a hook and probably some kind of weatherized box, but I don't think I'll come up with anything that pretty. He's shamed us all!

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

The previous "Gen 2" wall charger had a much longer cable (24') and can be found 2nd hand.

If the front/rear location of the charge port is a factor maybe you can just back into the driveway easily enough? Tesla has a much better backup camera than most, so it might be easier than you think.

The Leaf/Bolt/Volt/etc. have their charge port in front because they are FWD chassis with all of the electronics packed under the hood and have relatively low charge current limits. Tesla mounts their charge inverter under the back seat and supports charge currents over 500 Amps so the wiring is pretty substantial and the tail light is the most logical location for it. Plus Tesla actually tries to make their cars look good.

 

[Long Ranger]

It's only an extra foot or two to put the charger on the inside and drill a hole to run the cable through.

That may not be allowed by the electric code. Don’t know about your local rules, but generally you can’t have flexible cable like the charging cord passing through walls.

 

[Rocky_H]

There isnt a licensed electrician on the planet who can not inform people of what would need to happen at their residence to get some form of charing there. The cost will vary, but in general, an electrician will be able to tell someone what they need to do to get charging at their residence. Condos and such have more challenges, but single family homes dont, for the most part.

That seems oversimplified and not universally true. They can know it up to a point of installing something in a building that the homeowner owns--obviously. But helping them to problem solve solutions to be able to use it if the car can't be closer than 30 feet from that building? that's definitely not in the electrician's purview. That requires knowing lots of different EVSE products out in the market and the various features and amenities of each. I linked to one that has a 50 foot cord, but I only knew of it because I saw someone mention it in another thread. I would have had to go take time to research that if I hadn't already seen it elsewhere. That's not really the electrician's gig to help a homeowner pick out the appliances they want installed.

It would be nice if there were a longer cable available, but there isn't. The Tesla-specific extension cords seem to be vaporware and perhaps not approved by Tesla. Building my own box would leave room for flexibility, but I don't want to leave the mobile charger out in the elements.

So the current plan is to get the charger as close to the car as possible, but the configuration of the house, shed, and driveway make this complicated.

Sorry--what is complicated? I already gave the link earlier to a charging station with a 50 foot cord. There's an easy solution.

 

[jjrandorin]

That seems oversimplified and not universally true. They can know it up to a point of installing something in a building that the homeowner owns--obviously. But helping them to problem solve solutions to be able to use it if the car can't be closer than 30 feet from that building? that's definitely not in the electrician's purview. That requires knowing lots of different EVSE products out in the market and the various features and amenities of each. I linked to one that has a 50 foot cord, but I only knew of it because I saw someone mention it in another thread. I would have had to go take time to research that if I hadn't already seen it elsewhere. That's not really the electrician's gig to help a homeowner pick out the appliances they want installed.

Sorry--what is complicated? I already gave the link earlier to a charging station with a 50 foot cord. There's an easy solution.

I agree with you, but when I posted that I was coming from a place of "the challenge presented here isnt about the cable, is it?" An electrician can tell someone how much charging they can get at their residence, but not about wall connectors, or WHICH plug is best, etc. that does require some research on the owners part.

 

[Rapa Nui]

generally you can’t have flexible cable like the charging cord passing through walls.

Argh! You guys are killing me!

Anyway, thanks, good to know. More research, more complexity.

Sorry--what is complicated? I already gave the link earlier to a charging station with a 50 foot cord. There's an easy solution.

That would be a great solution if I totally trusted that product. It says it's "splash resistant" which isn't the same as the tested Tesla charger, there are typos on the page, only 26 reviews, and (most importantly), it requires an extra adapter which they currently don't have in stock.

Maybe this will be the ultimate solution, but at the moment it seems like an expensive gamble.

"the challenge presented here isnt about the cable, is it?"

And, again, it is entirely about the cable. If the default Tesla cable were a bit longer, this thread wouldn't exist at all, because I would just have the Tesla charger installed in the most convenient location and everything would be fine.

The previous "Gen 2" wall charger had a much longer cable (24') and can be found 2nd hand.

This would probably do the job, although starting off with a discontinued hand-me-down is a bit concerning. I wonder why they stopped offering it. If they determined most of their initial customers preferred a shorter cable, that would explain the change, but why remove the opportunity to get the longer cable? Was it a tech problem or just streamlining?