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I suppose the other point worth considering might be liability. If someone installs, or has installed, a power outlet (be it a dedicated 13 A socket, commando socket or a charge point) that is intended to be used primarily for charging a car, and they don't ensure that it complies with the requirements of Section 722 in the wiring regs, then what happens if there is a serious fault?

I honestly don't know, but I suspect that insurers might try and check to see whether the work has been done according to the regs, with the installation certificate lodged on the building control database. Easy to check to see if there's been a Part P chit lodged, as it's all done digitally now. If there is a Part P chit lodged, and the installation is found to be non-compliant (and a fair few aren't, especially older installations) then my guess is that action might be taken against the installer. If there isn't a Part P ticket lodged, then maybe action might be taken against the householder.
 
This is very interesting. I had a 32a isolated commando installed which connects to another CU with type A rcd. I was told the type A wasn't needed but installed on my insistence. The sparky also didn't install the earth rod I had saying it wasn't needed. Iirc he said the earth is already supplied from outside and a tt installation isn't necessary. Armoured Cable was used, but instead of a Henley block, I noticed the tails were joint from the main CU to the 'chargers' CU.

I plan on using the umc with the blue adapter to charge at 32a (which I mentioned before installation). We are planning on moving btw. However reading this thread I'm second guessing if that is the best way to go about it and not just plugging on via the 3 pin.

Would I be better off getting the ohme smart cable which claim to have dc protection?
 
One reason for insisting on a more 'safe' solution for dedicated installations is that these installations are likely to remain in use for 20-50 years, but UMC use ought to drop off a bit over time as more of the people with EVs start to get better access to dedicated points (e.g. all new housing stock).
 
Given everyone else has rather gone down a safety/regs rabbit hole here, charging at 16A or even 10 on the UMC is pretty OK. I'm still on a 16A commando connection to the UMC and its only bit me once in 8 months on a weekend of long trips. Even then it just meant 5 mins longer at a supercharger I needed to stop at anyway. I also survived 4 months of lock down just on a 3 pin plug. Obviously doing less miles, but unless you are consistently using more miles than you can add in a night eg for a commute, its totally fine. Or was for me.

The step from 10A 3pin up to 16A commando is quite significant. There is a ~2A baseload of the car being on, so you are only putting 8A into the battery on the 3 pin, but 14A on the commando. Which almost doubles your actual charge rate. 3 pin is ~48 hours to add a battery full, commando is closer to 24.
 
This is very interesting. I had a 32a isolated commando installed which connects to another CU with type A rcd. I was told the type A wasn't needed but installed on my insistence. The sparky also didn't install the earth rod I had saying it wasn't needed. Iirc he said the earth is already supplied from outside and a tt installation isn't necessary. Armoured Cable was used, but instead of a Henley block, I noticed the tails were joint from the main CU to the 'chargers' CU.

I plan on using the umc with the blue adapter to charge at 32a (which I mentioned before installation). We are planning on moving btw. However reading this thread I'm second guessing if that is the best way to go about it and not just plugging on via the 3 pin.

Would I be better off getting the ohme smart cable which claim to have dc protection?

To be fair, the electrician may not have been fully aware of the wording of the regulations, and may have assumed that the normal protection requirements for an outdoor outlet applied. Right at the top of Section 722 in BS7671:2018 is a paragraph titled "scope", which states "The particular requirements of this section apply to circuits intended to supply electric vehicles for charging purposes".

Because the wording makes it clear that this section applies to any circuit that is intended to charge a vehicle, there's no way to avoid having to install the appropriate protection device(s) and still have the installation compliant with the regs.

There are devices available now that can provide the required level of protection, including devices that don't require an earth electrode to be installed. Probably worth adding that this applies to houses with TN installations, not those that have TT installations (TN is where the protective earth is supplied by the incoming cable, either combined with the neutral, or as a separate conductor, TT is where the protective earth is provided at the installation, with an earth electrode).

Here's a link to the text of Amendment 1 to BS7671:2018, that happens to include all the text in Section 722 (it changed in Amendment 1 to make meeting the requirements a bit easier): https://electrical.theiet.org/media/2422/bs-7671-2018_a1_2020-inc-corrigendum-may-2020_read-only.pdf Paragraph 722.411.4.1 is really the key one for most TN installations, as it lists the methods that can be used to protect the circuit.

In terms of safety, there's no significant difference between using the UMC plugged in to a 13 A outlet and using it plugged into a 32 A commando, other than the normal one of making sure the 13 A outlet is in good condition and doesn't run hot after prolonged charging. There's a known weakness in the design of 13 A plugs, that causes the normal heat build up from the fuse to heat up the line pin of the plug, and this can then lead to the spring tension in the socket loosening a bit, which in turn then tends to make that pin run hotter. This is only normally a problem with older outlets, where the spring contact tension might already be weakened a bit through age and use.

The electric shock risk from a PEN fault would be the same for both, and TBH it's pretty unlikely, but clearly pretty dangerous if it does occur.
 
To be fair, the electrician may not have been fully aware of the wording of the regulations, and may have assumed that the normal protection requirements for an outdoor outlet applied. Right at the top of Section 722 in BS7671:2018 is a paragraph titled "scope", which states "The particular requirements of this section apply to circuits intended to supply electric vehicles for charging purposes".

Because the wording makes it clear that this section applies to any circuit that is intended to charge a vehicle, there's no way to avoid having to install the appropriate protection device(s) and still have the installation compliant with the regs.

There are devices available now that can provide the required level of protection, including devices that don't require an earth electrode to be installed. Probably worth adding that this applies to houses with TN installations, not those that have TT installations (TN is where the protective earth is supplied by the incoming cable, either combined with the neutral, or as a separate conductor, TT is where the protective earth is provided at the installation, with an earth electrode).

Here's a link to the text of Amendment 1 to BS7671:2018, that happens to include all the text in Section 722 (it changed in Amendment 1 to make meeting the requirements a bit easier): https://electrical.theiet.org/media/2422/bs-7671-2018_a1_2020-inc-corrigendum-may-2020_read-only.pdf Paragraph 722.411.4.1 is really the key one for most TN installations, as it lists the methods that can be used to protect the circuit.

In terms of safety, there's no significant difference between using the UMC plugged in to a 13 A outlet and using it plugged into a 32 A commando, other than the normal one of making sure the 13 A outlet is in good condition and doesn't run hot after prolonged charging. There's a known weakness in the design of 13 A plugs, that causes the normal heat build up from the fuse to heat up the line pin of the plug, and this can then lead to the spring tension in the socket loosening a bit, which in turn then tends to make that pin run hotter. This is only normally a problem with older outlets, where the spring contact tension might already be weakened a bit through age and use.

The electric shock risk from a PEN fault would be the same for both, and TBH it's pretty unlikely, but clearly pretty dangerous if it does occur.
Thank you for this, I thought this was the case too. Sounds like I do have a TN supply but the sparky didn't feel it necessary to install the earth rod.

He did however make me change my main CU in order to comply with regs, strange he didn't heed my advice on installing the earth rod and made me feel like I didn't know what I was talking about when I was being persistent in it being installed. Would it be worth getting him/ another sparky out to install the rod for compliance/ safety? Could I do this myself by removing the earth to the 'chargers cu' and running it the rod?

TBH, the additional outlet outside would have been a cheap and simple installation without the need for a sparky, nor changing, and adding an additional CU. However, I wanted to be sure it was safe to use, and separate any issues with the house, which I still don't have.
 
Just to be clear, installing an earth electrode isn't an automatic fix, or way to make the installation comply with the regs. It may or may not form part of the solution, but not all of it, as there is also a requirement to disconnect the live conductors (line and neutral) AND the protective earth conductor, in the even of a fault. The latter point is the gotcha, as most RCDs and RCBOs in domestic installation will only be 2 pole, so will not disconnect the PE to the outlet.

The method I've used is to use a DC tolerant residual current sensing device, coupled with a 3 pole contactor, with that being protected in terms of the required high fault current disconnect by a 2 pole Type A RCBO. The 3 pole contactor allows compliance, because in the event of a fault the sensor will disconnect the line, neutral and PE from the vehicle. The reason for needing to disconnect the PE is because of the touch voltage problem - the car body needs to be disconnected from the incoming PE if that has floated up to a high voltage because of a PEN fault.

Any outdoor circuit has to be installed by a Part P accredited electrician, with the Part P installation certificate lodged digitally on the building control accessible database, so there is no lawful option to install a new DIY outdoor circuit. That's not specific to car charging, it applies to any outdoor circuit, and has done for quite a few years now, since the introduction of Part P of the building regs. We encountered this problem when selling our last house, as I'd installed an outdoor weatherproof outlet, connected as a radial to a spare MCB in the consumer unit. The surveyor for the purchaser picked it up, and although I'm a competent person, I wasn't Part P registered, so I opted to disconnect the power outlet from the CU before sale, just to avoid the hassle it was likely to cause. I left the wiring in place, labelled, so the purchasers could get it reconnected if they wished.

By the same token, DIY of any outdoor outlet for a charge point is also unlawful, so needs to be done by a competent person that holds a current Part P accreditation (unless you live in Scotland, where they are thankfully free from all this Part P stuff). Fitting something like the matt-e device (https://matt-e.co.uk/ ) is pretty easy, and is reputed to meet the requirements. I've never installed one, mind, but it does look to be pretty straightforward, and doesn't require installing an earth electrode. An alternative might be to replace the existing RCD with one of these, although they are a fair bit bigger: Electric Vehicle Charging | Western Automation

EDITED TO ADD:

As an afterthought, it's fine to DIY any existing circuit, at least as far as Part P is concerned. It still needs to be done by a competent person, but as no paperwork has to be lodged anywhere for just minor changes to something that already exists that means a competent DIY'er can do the work. Should have mentioned this earlier, as it's how I wired up lots of outdoor stuff here. When we built the house I ran several spare runs of cable around, anywhere I thought we might want to connect something later. All these runs were terminated in weatherproof junction boxes, and were inspected, tested and included on the Part P chit. This meant I could legally connect things up later, without needing to get a Part P chap in again, as all I was doing was working on an "existing circuit".
 
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Just to be clear, installing an earth electrode isn't an automatic fix, or way to make the installation comply with the regs. It may or may not form part of the solution, but not all of it, as there is also a requirement to disconnect the live conductors (line and neutral) AND the protective earth conductor, in the even of a fault. The latter point is the gotcha, as most RCDs and RCBOs in domestic installation will only be 2 pole, so will not disconnect the PE to the outlet.

The method I've used is to use a DC tolerant residual current sensing device, coupled with a 3 pole contactor, with that being protected in terms of the required high fault current disconnect by a 2 pole Type A RCBO. The 3 pole contactor allows compliance, because in the event of a fault the sensor will disconnect the line, neutral and PE from the vehicle. The reason for needing to disconnect the PE is because of the touch voltage problem - the car body needs to be disconnected from the incoming PE if that has floated up to a high voltage because of a PEN fault.

Any outdoor circuit has to be installed by a Part P accredited electrician, with the Part P installation certificate lodged digitally on the building control accessible database, so there is no lawful option to install a new DIY outdoor circuit. That's not specific to car charging, it applies to any outdoor circuit, and has done for quite a few years now, since the introduction of Part P of the building regs. We encountered this problem when selling our last house, as I'd installed an outdoor weatherproof outlet, connected as a radial to a spare MCB in the consumer unit. The surveyor for the purchaser picked it up, and although I'm a competent person, I wasn't Part P registered, so I opted to disconnect the power outlet from the CU before sale, just to avoid the hassle it was likely to cause. I left the wiring in place, labelled, so the purchasers could get it reconnected if they wished.

By the same token, DIY of any outdoor outlet for a charge point is also unlawful, so needs to be done by a competent person that holds a current Part P accreditation (unless you live in Scotland, where they are thankfully free from all this Part P stuff). Fitting something like the matt-e device (https://matt-e.co.uk/ ) is pretty easy, and is reputed to meet the requirements. I've never installed one, mind, but it does look to be pretty straightforward, and doesn't require installing an earth electrode. An alternative might be to replace the existing RCD with one of these, although they are a fair bit bigger: Electric Vehicle Charging | Western Automation

EDITED TO ADD:

As an afterthought, it's fine to DIY any existing circuit, at least as far as Part P is concerned. It still needs to be done by a competent person, but as no paperwork has to be lodged anywhere for just minor changes to something that already exists that means a competent DIY'er can do the work. Should have mentioned this earlier, as it's how I wired up lots of outdoor stuff here. When we built the house I ran several spare runs of cable around, anywhere I thought we might want to connect something later. All these runs were terminated in weatherproof junction boxes, and were inspected, tested and included on the Part P chit. This meant I could legally connect things up later, without needing to get a Part P chap in again, as all I was doing was working on an "existing circuit".
Thank you very much for this. I wasn't aware I could run wires and get this tested at the time of doing up the house. I'd definitely remember this for the next one!

Although a pen fault is considered unlikley I would still like to be protected. The matt-e does look straight forward - would I still need to get a sparky in to install?

I may elect to get the smart ohme cable which albeit doesn't allow my current install to "comply' with regs, it does provide the DC protection I'd want, which please correct me if I'm wrong should allow my CU with type A to cut off the power (as there shouldn't be any dc leakage?

I suppose a "spare" charger wouldn't hurt.
https://ohme.odoo.com/web/content/1...84ba53f80f0d9a9915a947260711063&download=true

The irony is, anyone without an EV wouldn't have any protection at all, but using a 3pin is still considered "safe" to charge as it's a temporary solution.
 
The key issue isn't isolating the power, in the event of a PEN fault, it's in breaking the earth connection to the car bodywork, as that's where the risk is in this scenario. If the incoming protective earth (which will be from the neutral in the meter box in a TN-C-S installation) has floated up to a potentially dangerous voltage, then isolating the line and neutral downstream from the company fuse won't make things safe, as the car body will still be connected back to the neutral at the supply, via the protective earth conductor. This is why the regs state that the protective earth needs to be disconnected, in addition to the line and neutral.

If you're competent, and ensure you isolate the supply, check it's properly isolated and feel OK about the work, then there's no reason why you shouldn't DIY install something like the O-PEN device. The installation looks pretty straightforward and they provide reasonably good instructions: https://matt-e.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/SP-EVCP-Installation-Manual-v1.3-Dec-2019-A5.pdf

Apart from the obvious stuff, the only other key thing to watch is that all the terminal are properly tightened, and then re-tightened a while later, just to be sure they are still tight.

You're right about a portable charge point still being considered safe, but it's just an anomaly within the way electrical safety is regulated. The wiring regs are only concerned with the installation; all the fixed wiring. Anything that plugs into fixed wiring is considered to be an appliance, and subject to a different set of regulations. I guess the key phrase in the wiring regs is this one, though, when considering the level of protection needed for vehicle charging:

722.411.4.1 A PME earthing facility shall not be used as the means of earthing for the protective conductor contact of a charging point located outdoors or that might reasonably be expected to be used to charge a vehicle located outdoors unless one of the following methods is used:
(followed by the list of protection methods that are allowable).

This means that, according to the regs, any outlet that might be expected to be used to charge a vehicle needs to have this level of additional protection, including something like a normal outdoor 13 A outlet located by a garage or drive, I suspect.
 
So many variables so it's quite difficult to answer the original OP question.

I was very keen to get the charger sorted before the car came and very happy with the Zappi2 installed. However, what with lockdown, a 13 amp charger at work and a free charger 2 mins walk from me, I really needn't have panicked. If I had to, I could currently manage without my home charger. I only use it currently to dump the excess solar in the car.

In short, wait 'till you get the car and see then how things go for your particular circumstances.
 
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I am taking delivery on my M3 LW in 2 weeks. For the first month or so I intend to make do with using the Mobile Connector and connecting to an outdoor weather proofed 3-pin socket. However I am concerned that the cover for the socket won't fit with the diameter of the cable. Is anybody able to share what the diameter is of the cable is just below the 3-pin plug please?
 
Do you know the make of the outdoor socket? Some are a tighter fit than others, and the other key factor is whether or not it's a switched outlet or not. Outlets without a switch are generally easier to use, as the socket is central in the housing, meaning that the cable runs straight down, giving a bit more room where the seal is.

I can confirm that the UMC plug will easily fit into a BG weatherproof single outlet without a switch, but is a tight fit into the same outlet with a switch.
 
Hi Everyone,

hope all is well, I’ve placed an order for a long range model 3 to replace my current lease car through Knowls (NHS) and was planning to get w charger fitted on the garage wall in front of the drive. The garage has electricity supplied (however just found out it’s only a 20amp connection) does anyone know if you can run a charge of 20amps?

My other option is straight out the front of the house (the fuse box is in the downstairs toilet) but I didn’t really want to park the car out the front.

last solution would be to fit a weather proof socket and just “trickle” charge?

To add complication looking to move around June next year (2021)

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome!

Gareth
Firstly how many miles are you likely to be doing daily and w/e and would you have any surprise long trips?
Secondly the 20 amps sounds odd. Do you have any photos of 1) the garage consumer unit and 2) the main consumer unit breaker supplying garage.
 
Do you know the make of the outdoor socket?

it’s like this one:

upload_2020-8-24_18-37-56.png


https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-...dp-weatherproof-outdoor-switched-socket/67928
 

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Should be fine. I've not explicitly tested the switched 2 gang version of the BG outlet, but it looks as if it's a better arrangement (as far as getting the plug lead out through the seal) than the single gang switched version. I use the single gang unswitched version on an extension lead, and this gives an idea of the space available when a portable charge point is plugged in (this happens to be a BMW one, but it's similar to the Tesla UMC plug).

BG outlet.JPG
 
Should be fine. I've not explicitly tested the switched 2 gang version of the BG outlet, but it looks as if it's a better arrangement (as far as getting the plug lead out through the seal) than the single gang switched version. I use the single gang unswitched version on an extension lead, and this gives an idea of the space available when a portable charge point is plugged in (this happens to be a BMW one, but it's similar to the Tesla UMC plug).

Ok thanks. Suspect I will need to widen the seal to get the UMC’s plug cable to fit and close the cover
 
Ok thanks. Suspect I will need to widen the seal to get the UMC’s plug cable to fit and close the cover

Should be fine, no need for any modification at all. The clip will be tight to latch home, but just pushing the cover in whilst getting it to go over-centre helps a lot, as does a slight smear of silicone grease on the cover latch (also put a bit on the hinge pins at the top, stops them squeaking).

Once the cover has been latched over the thicker UMC cable once or twice it will get easier to close. I'd not modify the seals at all, they can accommodate thicker cable than that on the UMC, I've forced the cover closed on a plug fitted with 2.5mm² H07RN before now.