JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Not sure how it would be implied since the two native speakers have different interpretations of it and no definitive proof either way as of yet.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
I don't understand what you mean. But I don't have obligation to convince you anyway. You can choose whatever you feel comfortably to believe.
Last edited:
It does not make sense to give discount the way they describe.
Having said that, I would not be surprised if Chinese public and media interprets and promotes it as a discount, and then buyers get disappointed when told otherwise at the point of purchase.
Opportunities for misunderstanding abound
Possibly, but there is no proof for the other side either. Both options ($12.5k raw discount if you trade versus trade in offer of $12.5k) are equally nonsensical when interpreted in Western markets so that doesn't tell me anything either. So at this point I am inclined to believe those who are native readers are more likely right than those who are speculating.
Why would you think a discount promotion doesn't make sense? Companies do this all the time and make sense, why Tesla should be different? China had a misleading market last year as scalpers contributed to most orders early 2014. It took Tesla about a year to learn that the discrepancy between the fame and popularity of their product in the media and the number of real customers' orders was huge. This year Tesla China is gaining quite some momentum and they want to keep it that way so they introduce this promotion to boost their Q1 2015 sales to China so that we won't see too much of a drop of Model S deliveries in Q1 2015 because, clearly, Tesla is going extra miles of boosting Model S sales Q4 2015 to a level that is not sustainable in the near future (with in a year), all thanks to the delayed ramp up of Model X. Plus, if my speculation of the purchase tax exemption is true, even with a 12.5k discount, Tesla is basically using advance knowledge of the tax policy to mask it as a discount promotion because, after the formal change of this purchase tax, the price customers pay will be lowered by approximately the same amount of the advertised discount.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Both sides are speculating absent of any official text by Tesla clarifying the conditions.
Here's the only official original text that was quoted so far and the given translation by the "other side":
The Chinese text of the fine print is not given and no link to the actual statement is given. This may reveal a bit about me, but I can read Chinese natively. The Chinese statement refers clearly to a trade in. It does not say anything about being able to just sell the car yourself elsewhere and claim a discount (as was mentioned by one of them). It also says "up to 80k". So far there are no details posted from Tesla officially about how to claim that full 80k and in what conditions would it be lower.
Giving promotional discounts is a common practice. I am not questioning that part.
It is questionable and hard to believe the described discount, hence poor translation / interpretation is more likely explanation.
I have never come across a discount that is conditioned upon customer's goods sales. It is especially bizarre to discount the new car price for the value of sold car.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a trade in duck
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I'm only trying to find the truth. I'm comfortable whatever it turns out to be. You don't have any obligation, but if you wish to be taken seriously then providing definitive proof of your statements would be helpful.
The point is that both of the native speakers are saying different things.
As far as I understand, they both agree that it's a discount and the customer retains the full value of their traded-in car.
At least we learn for this episode that Tesla China is much more in lockstep with the headquarters than it used to : they seem to communicate equally bad.
It is my experience that poor communication between English speaking HQ and Chinese branch (or a branch in any other Asian language speaking country) is to be expected.
All multinational businesses that I worked for had branches in China and some other Asan countries. Often back office functions for a multinational business that operates in Australia are located in China or Malaysia or similar due to much lower cost. That puts me in a situation to deal on a daily basis with these remote functions that are staffed by locals that speak school level English only (not fluent).
Asian languages including Chinese languages and cultures are all quite remote to English language and culture. That makes communication problems multilayered. Poor translation gets overlayed with incorrect interpretation due to different cultural filters and all that gets overlayed with different poorly understood behaviours/reactions.
Often added delays and inefficiencies due to communication problems outweigh cost savings due to lower cost labour.
In summary, this problem is in no way unique to Tesla nor is it Tesla's fault. Many businesses deal with this problem by appointing people fluent in both languages. Individuals that have job specific skills and are fluent in both languages may be scarce.
I am talking about the communication Tesla China<>Tesla Chinese speaking customers. If you are rolling out an incentive program and you don't manage to make something this basic clear while the program becomes public knowledge, you are doing it wrong.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Fallenone says it's related to a trade in, maoing says you get the discount even if you don't trade in. I think the only thing anyone agrees on is it's all rather confusing at this point.
Krugerrand
Meow
I don't think it matters how it's done, presented, said, described or otherwise. Language can be tricky and not everyone comes to the table with the same comprehension skills, or willingness, or openness, or unbiased attitude often required to fully understand. We've got two people telling us what the program is, neither work for Tesla (are either customers?) nor seem to be able to agree what the text says and they both speak the language. It happens on this forum every single day, and on every other Internet forum, in every media news outlet etc... But it's just easier to blame Tesla for all the communication issues because they've had problems in this arena before.
Update on this trade-in discount. On the same forum that posted the original information we've discussed for a few days, a new thread posted by someone who says he's a Tesla employee gives more detail:
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-47099754-1.html
I sent him a friend request on WeChat (most popular social app in Chinese community) to ask more details. If you want to ask any questions, I'd be happy to relay them to him (whether he responds is another thing).
My translation of the key points of his post:
1. You need a car to be traded-in for (it can be yours or direct relatives).
2. The order needs to placed between 11/15/2015 and 12/31/2015. However, if the order was placed after the price bump in China (FX reason a while ago), but you completed both trade-in and delivery of the car between 11/15/2015 and 12/31/2015, you still get the discount.
3. The car to be traded-in needs to meet certain criteria to prevent people abusing this policy (not bought within 3 months, not on lease, etc.)
4. Offer does not apply to discounted cars (showroom car etc.)
5. Must go to a store to get this offer.
6. The traded-in car must be ICE or hybrid. BMW i8 qualifies too!
7. Have enough money to buy a Model S after discount.
The discount varies from 70 to P90D from 50k CNY to 80k CNY. The more expensive the car, the more discount.
Also, since the discount is applied directly to the purchased price, customer will also save some purchase tax. A 80k CNY discount is a saving of 6.8k CNY on the purchase tax.
The referral program can be combined with this offer.
Last but also very important, this person says:
The price Tesla pays for the trade-in, as usual, should be quite higher than a normal market price. Original text below
那就是二手车收购的价格,按照特斯拉一贯以来,以客户为宗旨的尿性,收购的价格应该会比正常的市场收购价格高不少
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-47099754-1.html
I sent him a friend request on WeChat (most popular social app in Chinese community) to ask more details. If you want to ask any questions, I'd be happy to relay them to him (whether he responds is another thing).
My translation of the key points of his post:
1. You need a car to be traded-in for (it can be yours or direct relatives).
2. The order needs to placed between 11/15/2015 and 12/31/2015. However, if the order was placed after the price bump in China (FX reason a while ago), but you completed both trade-in and delivery of the car between 11/15/2015 and 12/31/2015, you still get the discount.
3. The car to be traded-in needs to meet certain criteria to prevent people abusing this policy (not bought within 3 months, not on lease, etc.)
4. Offer does not apply to discounted cars (showroom car etc.)
5. Must go to a store to get this offer.
6. The traded-in car must be ICE or hybrid. BMW i8 qualifies too!
7. Have enough money to buy a Model S after discount.
The discount varies from 70 to P90D from 50k CNY to 80k CNY. The more expensive the car, the more discount.
Also, since the discount is applied directly to the purchased price, customer will also save some purchase tax. A 80k CNY discount is a saving of 6.8k CNY on the purchase tax.
The referral program can be combined with this offer.
Last but also very important, this person says:
The price Tesla pays for the trade-in, as usual, should be quite higher than a normal market price. Original text below
那就是二手车收购的价格,按照特斯拉一贯以来,以客户为宗旨的尿性,收购的价格应该会比正常的市场收购价格高不少
Last edited:
I think I said same thing with Fallenone. I didn't say customer can get discount without trade in.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Here's the direct link to the Tesla website:
http://www.tesla.cn/blog/特斯拉推出燃油汽车置换ModelS优惠政策
The website doesn't mention the details that the forum post does.
Assuming the forum post is from a Tesla employee (his post is written in a really unprofessional manner with lots of jokes, so does not read like a normal PR person), it is pretty clear that you must trade in the car and that there will be plenty of conditions that makes it so you can't just go out and buy a cheap car right now and get the discount (he did not lay out the details, only a few examples like a recently purchased second hand car or leased vehicles not apply). The discount is lower for cheaper models, but he does not say the exact amount in his post.
He also says it does not apply to orders before a recent price increase, so perhaps this program is to cover for that. I haven't been following the China prices, maybe the price increase was more than this discount.
http://www.tesla.cn/blog/特斯拉推出燃油汽车置换ModelS优惠政策
The website doesn't mention the details that the forum post does.
Assuming the forum post is from a Tesla employee (his post is written in a really unprofessional manner with lots of jokes, so does not read like a normal PR person), it is pretty clear that you must trade in the car and that there will be plenty of conditions that makes it so you can't just go out and buy a cheap car right now and get the discount (he did not lay out the details, only a few examples like a recently purchased second hand car or leased vehicles not apply). The discount is lower for cheaper models, but he does not say the exact amount in his post.
He also says it does not apply to orders before a recent price increase, so perhaps this program is to cover for that. I haven't been following the China prices, maybe the price increase was more than this discount.
I was hoping Tesla website getting an update after 11/15/2015 but apparently there's no update.
This forum is for owners and fans, so you don't need to be that stiff I think. But yes, I don't think he's a PR person, just a salesperson.
The price increase he mentions is about 5%, due to the sudden drop of CNY to USD in August this year Tesla increased the price in China sometime in September as I remember, could be October though. The discount is more like 7%.
This forum is for owners and fans, so you don't need to be that stiff I think. But yes, I don't think he's a PR person, just a salesperson.
The price increase he mentions is about 5%, due to the sudden drop of CNY to USD in August this year Tesla increased the price in China sometime in September as I remember, could be October though. The discount is more like 7%.
Another update:
I asked the guy who posted the details about the trade-in discount. He told me the customer needs to bring the old car to a Tesla China store, staff examine it and give a quote. The customer can sell it to Tesla but if the customer sold it to a third party dealer, as long as all proofs are presented, the customer still gets the 50k-80k CNY discount.
I asked the guy who posted the details about the trade-in discount. He told me the customer needs to bring the old car to a Tesla China store, staff examine it and give a quote. The customer can sell it to Tesla but if the customer sold it to a third party dealer, as long as all proofs are presented, the customer still gets the 50k-80k CNY discount.
chickensevil
Active Member
This really seems like something Tesla is getting kickbacks for. If it was just a "bring in a trade in" then they would likely include all cars as opposed to just ICE or Hybrids... wouldn't they? And since the discount appears to scale based on which car you get, it seems like the discount is almost a percentage based on the price which feels like a tax that Tesla would normally have to pay, but for some reason are not going to have to, and are now passing that savings on to the customer in some form? Maybe the Chinese government told Tesla that for every person they convert to an EV they get X tax break? Wouldn't surprise me if this was happening.
It just seems really odd to me that they are doing this the way that they are doing this (not so much just the discount bonus, but the stipulations behind it). Also, if I am not mistaken license plates are titled to an individual, not a vehicle, right? So if you are a new owner you would be going to a license plate lottery system. But since this is geared toward converting current drivers, they must therefore have a license plate in their name already right? So they are getting more people off oil and into EVs which is directly in line with what the Chinese government is trying to push. This is why it feels like there is more to this story than we are seeing.
If it turns out to just be a trade in thing, whatever... I'll accept that, if just feels like there is something else going on here.... very odd.
It just seems really odd to me that they are doing this the way that they are doing this (not so much just the discount bonus, but the stipulations behind it). Also, if I am not mistaken license plates are titled to an individual, not a vehicle, right? So if you are a new owner you would be going to a license plate lottery system. But since this is geared toward converting current drivers, they must therefore have a license plate in their name already right? So they are getting more people off oil and into EVs which is directly in line with what the Chinese government is trying to push. This is why it feels like there is more to this story than we are seeing.
If it turns out to just be a trade in thing, whatever... I'll accept that, if just feels like there is something else going on here.... very odd.
Similar threads
- Locked
