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Climate Change Denial
- Thread starter mspohr
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"The much greater mass of Venus’ atmosphere translates into much greater adiabatic compression which, in turn, produces much higher surface temperatures. (On Earth, temperatures at Death Valley and the Dead Sea are hotter than elsewhere because of their negative elevation relative to sea level and the resulting increase in adiabatic compression.)"No. While compressing a gas heats it, on Venus it then radiates that heat into space and in a short time you have cold much less dense atmosphere in the absence of the greenhouse effect.
Here let me show you the physics so it’s harder for your to deny it.
Stefan-Boltzman Law
J* = sigma*T^4
Where J* is in watts/m^2
Sigma is a constant
And T is the temperature to the fourth
The average energy reaching the top of the Venusian atmosphere is 662w/m^2 but only 25% make through due its albedo (you can verify this yourself by simply looking at it. Venus is very bright because it reflects so much light due to the Sulfer dioxide in the upper atmosphere)
So
662 W/m^2 * .25 = 165.5W/m^2 at the surface.
Now we know the temperature at the surface is 735K
j* = sigma* 735^4
J* = 16500 W/m^2
16500 W/m^2 does not equal 165 W/m^2 so this system is not anywhere near equilibrium. Therefore, in the absence of the greenhouse effect which you deny CO2 is cable of, the hot side (the surface) is going to cool until is in equilibrium around 232K.
It sure seems like your adiabatic compression model doesn’t conform to known physics.
Your dog and pony show with the equation has nothing to do with adiabatic compression.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
What's the source of the compression? Death Valley is hot because there's more atmosphere to insulate it... has nothing to do with 'compression'. Compression causes heat not pressure. The SCUBA tank in my garage got hot when I filled it a week ago. Why is it now no hotter than the garage?
But... simple yes/no question. Does CO2 absorb and re-emit IR light in the same spectrum as Earth radiates into space?
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Or maybe a valley is like a bowl... heat and pollution tend to stay in place due to limited effect from wind... unlike top of a mountain where heat and pollution just blows away? LA, incidentally, also has this effect because hot air and pollution is pushed in-land and the mountains prevent it from escaping, thus LA gets very hot and smoggy. It is just common sense, common sense lacking when you are grasping at straws to justify the answer. LOL
You don’t seem to understand thermal equilibrium. An atmosphere @ 730K cannot maintain its temperature when it’s only receiving 1% of the energy it’s losing. Without another source of energy source or an insulator to reduce the energy loss the temperature will decrease.
This is what I mean about physics denial. You apparently deny the 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics exists.
Edit: you do realize that Death Valley cools at night right? In the summer it loses almost 1/3 of its heat.
While on Venus the night time temperatures average about 698K a measly 4.5% change from the global average.
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No no. He’s got a point. I went ahead and ran my compressor and the tank got warm. I also took a bottle of compressed air, used it and it got cold.
Thanks to @MitchP85D i know that compressed gases always maintain their temperature. So the compressor tank will stay hot forever and the compressed air can will stay cold.
I thought about using them to make infinite hot and cold drinks but now I’m thinking of putting a sterling engine between them and making a perpetual motion machine.
Think of the compressed can of guess in your garage. What is the ambient environment around that compressed can of gas? Now, think of an air parcel (how meteorologists think) on the surface of Venus. What is the ambient environment around that air parcel? Put that in your pipe and smoke it a while.No no. He’s got a point. I went ahead and ran my compressor and the tank got warm. I also took a bottle of compressed air, used it and it got cold.
Thanks to @MitchP85D i know that compressed gases always maintain their temperature. So the compressor tank will stay hot forever and the compressed air can will stay cold.
I thought about using them to make infinite hot and cold drinks but now I’m thinking of putting a sterling engine between them and making a perpetual motion machine.
Because the compressed can of gas has an ambient environment that is colder than the can. On the surface of Venus, the atmosphere on the surface IS that compressed can of gas. An air parcel on the surface of Venus is surrounded by other air parcels of similar pressure and temperature. The surface air parcel cannot radiate heat to ambient air parcels because the ambient air parcels have the same temperature. So your compressed can in the garage idea is false.
A compressed can of gas that is in an environment that has the same temperature as the can will not lose heat.
OK, so what happens if the can of air is compressed while the can is insulated? (Greenhouse gas effect).
Now, do you understand? Can't believe you were a weather forecaster. LOL
Attention all of you global warming alarmists fixated on the Venus analogy:
"Unlike the Earth, however, Venus is always entirely covered with clouds. Neither the planet surface nor the lower atmosphere has any opportunity to radiate heat directly into space. Venus radiates heat directly into space only from its cloud-tops and upper atmosphere."
This obliterates the compressed can in a garage idea.
homeclimateanalysis.blogspot.com
Adiabatic compression rules.
"Unlike the Earth, however, Venus is always entirely covered with clouds. Neither the planet surface nor the lower atmosphere has any opportunity to radiate heat directly into space. Venus radiates heat directly into space only from its cloud-tops and upper atmosphere."
This obliterates the compressed can in a garage idea.
Venus
UPDATE: Initial version of this post used diatomic gas equation for the compression of CO2. Have now corrected this oversight, and find that...
homeclimateanalysis.blogspot.com
Adiabatic compression rules.
Attention all of you global warming alarmists fixated on the Venus analogy:
"Unlike the Earth, however, Venus is always entirely covered with clouds. Neither the planet surface nor the lower atmosphere has any opportunity to radiate heat directly into space. Venus radiates heat directly into space only from its cloud-tops and upper atmosphere."
This obliterates the compressed can in a garage idea.
Venus
UPDATE: Initial version of this post used diatomic gas equation for the compression of CO2. Have now corrected this oversight, and find that...
Adiabatic compression rules.
OK, looks like you lost in 4D chess. You just made the care for global warming due to greenhouse gas effect. LOL
An air parcel on the surface of Venus does not have insulation around it. Your "what if" is pointless.
You didn't read this:
"The atmosphere of Venus will heat up as it descends from the tropopause to the surface, and it will be hottest if it does not lose any heat on the way down. The pressure rises from 10 kPa in the tropopause to 9,300 kPa at the surface. The temperature starts at 240 K. Adiabatic compression of an ideal diatomic gas would heat the gas to 1700 K. If we use p−0.25T1.25 as an approximation for CO2, we estimate a final temperature of 941 K."
If the atmosphere of Venus was made of a diatomic gas, the temperature at the surface would be hotter than an atmosphere made of CO2.
"Our DAET model demonstrates therefore that the observed high air temperatures of Venus are due to the mass motion ADIABATIC HEATING of descending air in a gravity field, and not due to a process of thermal radiant energy flux impediment by atmospheric thermal radiant opacity."
Yet another technical paper supporting adiabatic heating as the reason for the surface of Venus being so hot.
Are you global warming alarmists beginning to notice a pattern yet?
Yet another technical paper supporting adiabatic heating as the reason for the surface of Venus being so hot.
Are you global warming alarmists beginning to notice a pattern yet?
Did they have to stop the wind turbine again? LOL
KPRC Click2Houston: Power outages reported across Houston area due to severe weather.
www.click2houston.com
KPRC Click2Houston: Power outages reported across Houston area due to severe weather.
CenterPoint expects to have majority of remaining customer outages restored by the end of the day
Hundreds of thousands of customers are without power as Hurricane Nicholas rolls through the Houston area.
www.click2houston.com
Lost power twice this week. The good news is they are supposed start work installing our generator today.Did they have to stop the wind turbine again? LOL
KPRC Click2Houston: Power outages reported across Houston area due to severe weather.
CenterPoint expects to have majority of remaining customer outages restored by the end of the day
Hundreds of thousands of customers are without power as Hurricane Nicholas rolls through the Houston area.
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