Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[JRP3]

The linked studies in the article are not written by vegans. You keep trying to use this strawman every single time you are presented with evidence you don't like, and every single time I'll point out that using your logic I can just dismiss every single thing you ever post because you eat meat. Can you not see how monumentally stupid your "argument" becomes? The fact is that the Inuit were not a healthy population.

 

[Swampgator]

The linked studies in the article are not written by vegans. You keep trying to use this strawman every single time you are presented with evidence you don't like, and every single time I'll point out that using your logic I can just dismiss every single thing you ever post because you eat meat. Can you not see how monumentally stupid your "argument" becomes? The fact is that the Inuit were not a healthy population.

I have read the source studies. You just did a google search and pulled up the first article you like. It's written by a weak, puny looking, vegan influencer that happens to be an MD.

Here is a quote from the conclusion of the 500 year old Inuit paper:

While we cannot know the incidence of ancient ischemic events, cardiovascular deaths were rare among mid-20th century Inuit people, similar to contemporary Amazonian Tsimane people, who have low-grade atherosclerosis and low incidence of cardiovascular death.7-9 The etiologic complexity of atherosclerosis confounds identification of single factors, such as ω-3 fatty acids, as causal or protective. Other factors may include environmental smoke,10 which is produced by indoor fires used by Inuit and many other ancient peoples who also incurred atherosclerosis.

 

[JRP3]

It's written by a weak, puny looking, vegan influencer that happens to be an MD.

What does his strength, size, and appearance have to do with anything? Nothing. You can find similar data from other sources which show the same thing. Maybe even some written by big burly men since that seems to matter.

 

[Swampgator]

What does his strength, size, and appearance have to do with anything? Nothing. You can find similar data from other sources which show the same thing. Maybe even some written by big burly men since that seems to matter.

I just added that to get under your skin Sensitive much?

But also I wanted to point out that this long time Vegan influencer does not look to be at the Apex of human health.

 

[JRP3]

I just added that to get under your skin

Sure, that's the reason...

But also I wanted to point out that this long time Vegan influencer does not look to be at the Apex of human health.

Looks perfectly healthy to me, lean and energetic. He's a Dr. with extensive knowledge of nutrition, not a fitness model.

 

[David_Cary]

I thought it was a bit fitting. After I wrote my post, I went to the office.
I saw a patient that went from 450 pounds to 250 pounds over 8 years. She was there for FU for a not weight related operation.

I was truly impressed so I asked her how it happened. An MD asked her if she wanted to live or die. Kudos to the MD.
She eats a mostly plant based diet. She eats chicken one time a week and shrimp 3 times a month.

Anecdote for sure but the timing was interesting to say the least.

And vegans can do fine without supplements. I would probably take B-12 just to be sure but many don't. They can write papers too and probably have greater than average intelligence. I know 3 MDs personally that are vegans. One I actually think might be smarter than me

One is a cardiologist who suffered a heart attack a few years ago - went vegan. Feels great (and I can say looks much better). Another is a trauma surgeon that I have known for 20+ years. We did Atkin's together in our 30's. He got a cholesteatoma - he has a genetic hyperlipidemia. He was a junior olympic swimmer at Stanford and now does Ironman's. He is 52. The last is a bariatric surgeon - younger. Changed a few years back - I asked her about it and she just felt that the preponderance of the data favored it. I didn't necessarily agree at the time....

Not one does it primarily (if at all) for environmental or ethical reasons. None were born into it. And I don't live in California.

 

[Swampgator]

And vegans can do fine without supplements. I would probably take B-12 just to be sure but many don't

Dangerous statement. In fact, could be fatal to someone who follows your advice.
How prevalent is vitamin B(12) deficiency among vegetarians? - PubMed - NCBI

Vitamin B12 deficiency anemia - Wikipedia

 

[Swampgator]

Sure, that's the reason...

Looks perfectly healthy to me, lean and energetic. He's a Dr. with extensive knowledge of nutrition, not a fitness model.

I'll take my advice from Dr Naiman instead.

 

[SR22pilot]

The military view of climate change.

Military perspective on climate change could bridge the gap

 

[mspohr]

The world is failing to ensure children have a 'liveable planet', report finds

The world is failing to ensure children have a 'liveable planet', report finds

Every country in the world is failing to shield children’s health and their futures from intensifying ecological degradation, climate change and exploitative marketing practices, says a new report.

The report says that despite dramatic improvements in survival, nutrition, and education over the past 20 years, “today’s children face an uncertain future”, with every child facing “existential threats”.

 

[mspohr]

Red-state Utah embraces plan to tackle climate crisis in surprising shift

Red-state Utah embraces plan to tackle climate crisis in surprising shift

In a move to protect its ski slopes and growing economy, Utah – one of the reddest states in the nation – has just created a long-term plan to address the climate crisis.

Project lead Thomas Holst, an energy analyst, never expected to be at the helm of an effort like this. A few years ago, the Utah legislature passed a resolution urging the EPA to “cease its carbon dioxide reduction policies, programs, and regulations until climate data and global warming science are substantiated”.

But now the perspectives of some state lawmakers – and of Holst, who spent most of his career in the oil and gas industry – have shifted.

Other red states and municipalities are slowly starting to address global heating. After banning the words “climate change” from state environmental agencies, Florida now has a chief resilience officer tasked with preparing for sea level rise. After a year of disastrous flooding, Nebraska lawmakers advanced a bill to develop a climate change plan for a full legislative debate.

 

[mspohr]

Fat and sugar make you stupid.
Researchers find a western-style diet can impair brain function

Researchers find a western-style diet can impair brain function

Consuming a western diet for as little as one week can subtly impair brain function and encourage slim and otherwise healthy young people to overeat, scientists claim.

Researchers found that after seven days on a high fat, high added sugar diet, volunteers in their 20s scored worse on memory tests and found junk food more desirable immediately after they had finished a meal.

 

[JRP3]

Dangerous statement. In fact, could be fatal to someone who follows your advice.
How prevalent is vitamin B(12) deficiency among vegetarians? - PubMed - NCBI

Vitamin B12 deficiency anemia - Wikipedia

The general population has a high rate of B12 deficiency, so many people could benefit from supplementation.

Oddly, the researchers found no association between plasma B12 levels and meat, poultry, and fish intake, even though these foods supply the bulk of B12 in the diet. “It’s not because people aren’t eating enough meat,” Tucker said. “The vitamin isn’t getting absorbed.”

B12 Deficiency May Be More Widespread Than Thought : USDA ARS

Seems to be genetic differences in absorption as well.
Genetic Variants Associated With Vitamin B12

Finally, there are a number of plant based sources of bio-available B12

. Conclusions
A survey of naturally occurring and high Vitamin B12-containing plant-derived food sources showed that nori, which is formed into a sheet and dried, is the most suitable Vitamin B12 source for vegetarians presently available. Consumption of approximately 4 g of dried purple laver (Vitamin B12 content: 77.6 μg /100 g dry weight) supplies the RDA of 2.4 μg/day. In Japan, several sheets of nori (9 × 3 cm2; approximately 0.3 g each) are often served for breakfast. A large amount of nori can be consumed as certain forms of sushi (vinegared rice rolled in nori). In particular, hand-rolled sushi made by wrapping rice and fillings with nori is easy to prepare and facilitates the consumption of a large amount of nori. When dried purple laver was treated by toasting until the laver’s color changed from purple to green, the toasting treatment did not affect the Vitamin B12 contents [57]. Dried purple lavers could also be a suitable food item for integration in Italian, French, and other forms of western cuisine. Dried purple laver is also a rich source of iron and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (Figure 4). Dried purple laver is a natural plant product; therefore, it is suitable for most vegetarian groups.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042564/

Independent third-party laboratory testing has confirmed that Parabel's water lentil crop and the ingredient LENTEIN® plant protein contain the natural bioactive forms of Vitamin B 12 adenosylcobalamin, methycobalamin, and hydroxocobalamin. The water lentil, or duckweed as it is commonly called, was shown to contain approximately 750 % of the US recommended daily value of the bioactive forms of Vitamin B12 (per 100 grams of dry plant).

Parabel Announces Natural Plant Source of Vitamin B12 in Water Lentils and LENTEIN® Plant Protein

 

[JRP3]

I'll take my advice from Dr Naiman instead.

Of course you would

 

[mspohr]

'The worst thing is the waiting': flood-hit communities tell of stress

'The worst thing is the waiting': flood-hit communities tell of stress

The scale of the flooding in Gillender’s village has been unprecedented and there are record levels of water in rivers nearby. She fears life there may become untenable if the climate crisis is not taken seriously. But for now, her most immediate concern is dealing with her insurance claim as she assesses the damage to her 500-year old cottage.

“The worst thing about flooding is the waiting and watching as the water rises foot after foot deep,” she said. “There’s nothing you can do. Once it has happened you’re completely isolated because you can’t go out and are left alone with the painful, disruptive aftermath.”

But people such as Rory Deighton, a 49-year-old NHS worker, are looking towards Westminster for real action. “If we get nothing again from a central government that ignores climate change, does not act on grouse shooting or discuss farming practices, and does not focus on how we can prevent flooding, then people will just ask: what’s the point?”

 

[mspohr]

World leaders urged to 'step back from precipice' of ecological ruin

World leaders urged to 'step back from precipice' of ecological ruin

Humanity’s ongoing destruction of nature threatens the survival of our species, a group of former foreign ministers has warned, calling on leaders to step back from “the precipice” of irreversible ecological ruin and protect the planet.

The planet’s rapidly warming oceans must be the focus of increased conservation efforts due to their importance in producing oxygen and food for billions of people, the former ministers added, as governments prepare to begin negotiations for a Paris-style UN agreement on nature next week.

 

[mspohr]

Sea Levels Around The US Aren't Just Rising, They're Accelerating Year on Year

The worst case scenario for sea level rise in the United States is more than just a dim possibility. It's becoming more likely.
An annual "report card" for the US coastline shows sea levels are speeding up in most places measured.

 

[Swampgator]

The general population has a high rate of B12 deficiency, so many people could benefit from supplementation.

B12 Deficiency May Be More Widespread Than Thought : USDA ARS

Seems to be genetic differences in absorption as well.
Genetic Variants Associated With Vitamin B12

Finally, there are a number of plant based sources of bio-available B12

Vitamin B12-Containing Plant Food Sources for Vegetarians

Parabel Announces Natural Plant Source of Vitamin B12 in Water Lentils and LENTEIN® Plant Protein

Well at least you agree with something I said so far

 

[David_Cary]

Dangerous statement. In fact, could be fatal to someone who follows your advice.
How prevalent is vitamin B(12) deficiency among vegetarians? - PubMed - NCBI

Vitamin B12 deficiency anemia - Wikipedia

And you are an MD? Oh right, you aren't.
Because the streets are filled with B-12 related fatalities. Are you really replying to me a link from wikipedia?

The streets are filled with deaths from cardiovascular disease.

But if you wan't to compare fatalities from B-12 deficiency to cardiovascular disease (or diabetes or colon cancer or whatever), lets have at it.

I am curious what those articles (in the review from your pubmed link) use to define B-12 deficiency. As you may or may not know, normal typically gets defined as the range that 95% of a population is in. That doesn't actually make those outside that 95% in any way pathologic. I am certainly open to the possibility that vegans have some B-12 deficiency. And I also said that I would take some just to be safe.

The majority of the B-12 deficiency patients are elderly and not vegans or vegetarians.

 

[HVM]

Don't feed trolls. Lol. Lowest bait ever.