Coal and Solar Power

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Well, not quite crickets, but certainly not much yet. I'm aware of one project in Texas, run by NRG Energy: http://www.netl.doe.gov/File%20Library/Research/Coal/major%20demonstrations/ccpi/FE0003311.pdf


Yeah, maybe Elon can start a solar-panel installation company or something.:wink:

Yes, but it's intermittant so he'd also need to be working on storage technology.

 

[richkae]

Refining isn't as "extensive" as I might have guessed. They estimate that for a 22 mpg car, 400g/mi are emitted by your car, and 100g/mi are emitted turning oil in Saudi Arabia into gasoline in your car, for the total of 500g/mi that I quoted above.
Turning natural gas into electricity or compressed hydrogen is less efficient than turning oil into gasoline. Since "MPGe" ignores upstream consumption, the MPGe of BEVs and FCVs is unfairly high. I'm not saying that BEVs are dirty; I'm just saying that on a typical electric grid, they're not > 4X cleaner than a 22 mpg car, nor > 6X cleaner than a BMW M5. If you live in clean energy CA, you could probably claim that the MPGe of a BEV is probably about right (4X better than a 22 mpg car). but then the average emissions of the grid might not be fair, either: if my car uses more electricity, does that mean that CA is going to build more clean energy plants, or will it build more natural gas plants? i.e., what are the marginal carbon emissions of the grid?

It is important to note that the biggest single source of imported "crude" into the US is actually Canadian tar sands oil - and it is growing every year.
The heavier the oil, the more energy it takes ( and thus more CO2 emitted ) to refine it. Tar sands actually take a ridiculous amount of energy to get out of the ground.
I don't have the numbers, but the total for getting it out of the ground and into your tank might be more than what is emitted by the car.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

It is important to note that the biggest single source of imported "crude" into the US is actually Canadian tar sands oil - and it is growing every year.
The heavier the oil, the more energy it takes ( and thus more CO2 emitted ) to refine it. Tar sands actually take a ridiculous amount of energy to get out of the ground.
I don't have the numbers, but the total for getting it out of the ground and into your tank might be more than what is emitted by the car.

This is what boggles my mind. At some point it will take more energy to extract, refine, and transport gasoline (never mind the combustion) than it would to transmit, charge, and propel an EV 30 miles. If it doesn't already in some cases.