Powerwall outdoor in cold climate: My powerwall is being installed in Bailey, CO 8400ft elevation, on covered outdoor deck, and I’m worried about cold temperatures. I see there is a cold weather kit. I was also considering an insulated enclosure of some nature. I recorded -11F lows earlier this year. (FYI- I don’t have an option to mount indoors anywhere). Has anybody have similar conditions, with info to share? Has anybody insulated to help mitigate problem?
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Cold powerwall
- Thread starter Chinarado
- Start date
We're in Denver metro area, so far less likely to see an issue over the limits, but we did have one 2-day stretch last winter with pretty extreme low temps. Enough so that we pulled the electric car into the garage, and gave the diesel a drink of fuel winterizer since it stayed outside.
Our Powerwall is due to be installed in the coming weeks, facing East, so it will get some morning sun. I'm not inclined to worry too much about it, frankly, but we don't have the same low temps that the OT is considering. I suppose in a pinch we could fire up a propane heater and point it at the Powerwall. That would prolly suffice. Or build some kind of cabinet to cover it. Even wrapping it in hard foam core insulation might work. You could throw that together pretty quickly.
I am curious to hear from others as well. No one has Powerwalls installed outside in very cold areas? Really?
Our Powerwall is due to be installed in the coming weeks, facing East, so it will get some morning sun. I'm not inclined to worry too much about it, frankly, but we don't have the same low temps that the OT is considering. I suppose in a pinch we could fire up a propane heater and point it at the Powerwall. That would prolly suffice. Or build some kind of cabinet to cover it. Even wrapping it in hard foam core insulation might work. You could throw that together pretty quickly.
I am curious to hear from others as well. No one has Powerwalls installed outside in very cold areas? Really?
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From other posts it sounds like the Powerwall severly limits or stops charging altogether as the temperatuer goes below freezing. I would imagine discharge rates would similarly be impacted. See this thread for example:
teslamotorsclub.com
Powerwall charge rate materially impacted by temperature?
I had a few issues that were stuck in tier-2 hell for several months that finally got resolved with a service visit yesterday. But 1 issue still seems to persist. It looks like the Powerwall charge rate is capped, and the rate that it's capped at seems to fluctuate during the day. As an...
teslamotorsclub.com
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Nice location!
The fundamental issue is that lithium ion chemistry does not charge well below freezing; bad things happen when lithium ion batteries try to charge cold. Tesla recommends the cold weather kit, but it is pretty minimal, and dependent on parasitic heat loss from the home, which may not be much if the house is well built.
I would be thinking about a wintertime add of extra insulation, a sheet of foam, an enclosure with insulation, with a temperature controlled cooling fan, whatever it takes to help keep the internal temperature up during the winter.
I assume that the internal controls in a Powerwall will trickle charge/heat the battery to get the internal temperatures up before allowing significant charge. I believe the vehicles do this routinely.
You can help your batteries in the wintertime by grid charging / usage timed such that when the sun comes up, the batteries are already warm and able to accept full charge rates. (But that assumes sufficient winter insolation, PV size, and / or the grid being present)
My suspicion is that it is a minor energy issue until the power is lost, and then it gets to be more of shutdown issue if the batteries run down during overcast, e.g. a storm.
All the best,
BG
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This post outlines the dangers very well. The real danger is if you get into a prolonged outage, without solar to recharge the battery or with temps so cold that it cannot recharge.Nice location!
The fundamental issue is that lithium ion chemistry does not charge well below freezing; bad things happen when lithium ion batteries try to charge cold. Tesla recommends the cold weather kit, but it is pretty minimal, and dependent on parasitic heat loss from the home, which may not be much if the house is well built.
I would be thinking about a wintertime add of extra insulation, a sheet of foam, an enclosure with insulation, with a temperature controlled cooling fan, whatever it takes to help keep the internal temperature up during the winter.
I assume that the internal controls in a Powerwall will trickle charge/heat the battery to get the internal temperatures up before allowing significant charge. I believe the vehicles do this routinely.
You can help your batteries in the wintertime by grid charging / usage timed such that when the sun comes up, the batteries are already warm and able to accept full charge rates. (But that assumes sufficient winter insolation, PV size, and / or the grid being present)
My suspicion is that it is a minor energy issue until the power is lost, and then it gets to be more of shutdown issue if the batteries run down during overcast, e.g. a storm.
All the best,
BG
If the battery gets exposed to very cold temperatures, it has an internal heater, but this heat source will quickly drain down what power is left in the ESS in a storm blackout in wintertime.
I would certainly build some sort of doghouse and add insulation to it to prevent a no-charge or non-recoverable battery condition if I had to put my ess outdoors in your climate.
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There's a significant difference between the Powerwall being able to survive a wide temperature range without permanent damage and being able to operate efficiently throughout that temperature range.
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I would be extremely surprised if the charging was not locally tailored. In fact, it basically has to be locally determined to allow for differences in the aging of individual cells in a pack. I wouldn't sweat it.
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I am in the same situation of prior installed 3 PWs indoors, but changing code means next one outdoors. Tesla gave me the same story about “minimal“ power drain to precondition for charging. Weather kit is simply some sort of rubberized film over Pw. I live in NH where temps go negative almost every winter. Have spoken to a few local solar companies here and in Vermont. None will install PWs outside a home. My outdoor location gets no sun (under an overhang). Have thought about building an insulated box around the unit, but seems like a costly experiment if it doesn’t work. If the outdoor PW is negatively impacted by cold to Possibly the point of not working, would it negatively effect my other PWs?
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Your outdoor unit will consume a little more power, but I would not sweat it. I would install it first, and then see if you need to do anything. You can certainly take a few steps to keep more of the heat in during the worst of the winter. Even a few inches of rigid foam against the outer wall will slow the heat loss significantly. I would start with a foam panel and some 1" straps and see how it goes, but don't forget to remove it when it warms up.
Of course that is all predicated on an installer that is willing to do the installation...
BG
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I saw that you are in NH as well. Tesla keeps pushing me to get another Powerwall even though it would be outside on the north side our garage under a roof. The severe cold temps here make me weary to install it. None of the local companies will place one outside. Do you know of anyone who has one outside and if so would They recommend it? Due to new regs I can’t put one inside.
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jhn_
Member
We have 3 PW2s mounted inside an unheated, attached garage in New England. Some heat from the home makes it warmer in the garage than directly outside, but it can get plenty cold. Our install was over three years ago before the cold weather kit existed.
This morning it is 17F outside and 32F in the garage. Generally it’s 10-20F warmer in the garage than outside. But we still see plenty of colder days in our winter climate that means where the PWs are operating in the 20F to 32F range in the garage and there has been no noticeable impact in that range to operations. I assume the PWs are able to heat themselves sufficiently for that.
It’s not -14F at over 8000ft. Don’t forget wind exposure too, that can sap heat very quickly. But I have a feeling the limit of operation is somewhere between my use case and the OPs. Tesla does only rate them to -4F.
This morning it is 17F outside and 32F in the garage. Generally it’s 10-20F warmer in the garage than outside. But we still see plenty of colder days in our winter climate that means where the PWs are operating in the 20F to 32F range in the garage and there has been no noticeable impact in that range to operations. I assume the PWs are able to heat themselves sufficiently for that.
It’s not -14F at over 8000ft. Don’t forget wind exposure too, that can sap heat very quickly. But I have a feeling the limit of operation is somewhere between my use case and the OPs. Tesla does only rate them to -4F.
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Don't know of any other PW installs near me. It'll take some heating on their part to keep them warm outside. Revision Energy is probably the big PW installer in the region. There is a smattering of small solar companies in NH which you probably know about. You can also try Catamount Solar out of VT. If you're in southern NH, there are probably some Mass companies as well. Call around and ask for the service rep to see what they say.
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