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Considering a Model 3 in NJ

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
475
253
NJ
I'm most likely going to get a Model 3. The main decision is battery. I typically drive under 200 miles per week, so I don't think I'd need the extended range, but in very cold (frigid) weather does the mileage suffer? The northern NJ winters haven't been too bad lately, but you never know.
I've read many posts saying the rear wheel drive is sufficient, due to the weight distribution. Have any standard range owners out there had problems with snowy hills or icy roads? Do any standard range owners regret their decision?
Thanks!
 
Sounds like this will be your first EV. The first rule of thumb is always “get the most range you can afford”. Although with Tesla’s supercharging network, it’s really not that big of a deal. Cold weather takes a big toll on battery, sometimes as much as 40% less (depending on road conditions, heat usage, and speed). If you can charge at home, then you’ll have a full tank of gas every time you leave in the morning.

Good luck!
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
475
253
NJ
Thanks! Yes, first EV (Hybrid driver)
Actually, my office complex has complimentary EV chargers, I'm always the first person in the office each morning (sleep is overrated!), so I can easily charge here. One other (minor) consideration, is the extended range bumps me over the NJ EV Rebate (55,000 MSRP cap), so I'd have to juggle the AutoPilot purchase from sticker, to aftermarket. Not a big deal, but then it becomes taxable (NJ EV cars are sales tax free).
Thanks for your advice
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,718
9,765
Visalia, CA
...I don't think I'd need the extended range... Do any standard range owners regret their decision?...
If you can afford it, I would advise getting the longest range.

It's fine if you can't afford longer range but if you can, I wouldn't base my decision that I could go with a lower range such as 150 mile Nissan Leaf.

If I can't afford the range, I could reason that the average US commuting distance is about 16 miles so any limited range EV would cover that number.

For the past 9 years since 2012, I've heard lots of regrets that they didn't buy a longer range and stuck with the shorter range but I've never heard any regrets for spending more money on the longer range.

Don't get me wrong. People can do fine with shorter ranges such as 150 mile Nissan Leaf, but it's not as convenient as having a longer range because after all, there are no Superchargers in every corner of the streets.


...in very cold (frigid) weather does the mileage suffer?...
Yes. Same with gasoline cars but we don't notice that because there are so many gas stations to fill your car up at any time.

...The northern NJ winters haven't been too bad lately, but you never know...
If you don't have Southern California weather that seldom goes to the lowest temperature of 38F, then I would say buy your EV with winter mileage reduction in your mind.

...I've read many posts saying the rear wheel drive is sufficient, due to the weight distribution....Have any standard range owners out there had problems with snowy hills or icy roads?...

What more important is snow tires. It doesn't help much if you don't have snow tires in AWD. So, if you can afford it, get 1 set of winter tires and another for summer.
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
475
253
NJ
If you can afford it, I would advise getting the longest range.

...


What more important is snow tires. It doesn't help much if you don't have snow tires in AWD. So, if you can afford it, get 1 set of winter tires and another for summer.
Thanks! Great advice! I'm sold (do you guys work on commission?? :))
I've never toggled snow/summer tires, but will probably consider doing it. Where do you store the tires? How do you transport it to the station with a Model 3? Make 4 trips??? (lol)...Seriously, how big a PITA is the tire change over?
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,718
9,765
Visalia, CA
...Actually, my office complex has complimentary EV chargers, I'm always the first person in the office each morning (sleep is overrated!), so I can easily charge here. One other (minor) consideration, is the extended range bumps me over the NJ EV Rebate (55,000 MSRP cap), so I'd have to juggle the AutoPilot purchase from sticker, to aftermarket. Not a big deal, but then it becomes taxable (NJ EV cars are sales tax free).
Thanks for your advice

Because
1) it is your first EV
2) you don't drive much
3) you want an incentive/rebate
4) you have office chargers

I would say it's reasonable to get a lower range Tesla for the above reasons.

By the time you are familiar with your Tesla and then drive a lot and need more battery capacity especially in winters, maybe by that time the incentives/rebates are all gone and you might need to trade in for a new higher range.
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
475
253
NJ
I keep cars forever! Driving a new Camry Hybrid that I bought in 2007 (before that it was a 1996 Avalon...and a 1986 Camry)
I'm not one of these "new car every two years" type of drivers.
As such, I have no problem a little (?) more since I will amortize it over an expected 10-12 year ownership. In my mind, I already spent the money (for the extended range), so I'm prepared for the expense, but was only considering a last ditch effort to save a few bucks. NJ Rebate doesn't start again until July, so I have plenty of time to consider my options.
I'd feel awful if I got the standard range and regretted it for having to make a pitstop on a three to four hour drive (Maryland or Mass., which I visit periodically).
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,718
9,765
Visalia, CA
I've never toggled snow/summer tires, but will probably consider doing it. Where do you store the tires? How do you transport it to the station with a Model 3? Make 4 trips??? (lol)...Seriously, how big a PITA is the tire change over?

Your 4 tires would fit in Model 3 with the rear seat folded down. It's a space problem: You have to find space for 4 tires. If you are handy: know how to use a tire wrench, a torque wrench, a jack, you can do it yourself. If not, any generic tire store can do it for you for a fee (like $50 or free as a courtesy to keep you using tire service there). It's very quick and very simple for a generic mechanic or do-it-yourself owner.

If you don't have space for your extra 4 tires and since you never practiced driving with snow tires, you might as well keep your current routine the same.
 
In my 40+ years of driving and living in the North East, I’ve never jumped on that snow/summer tire routine. I’ve driven RWD BMWs/MBs and a bunch of FWD cars over the years and I’ve been ok. Sure I’ve been stuck or struggled more where others just casually passed by, but with a little bit of persuasion, I’ve gotten myself around snow.
I have no doubt snow tires will make a world of difference, but for me, the pain of storing and switching twice a year makes it a deal breaker.
I would suggest trying it out for 1 winter season and decide from there.
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
475
253
NJ
If you are handy: know how to use a tire wrench, a torque wrench, a jack, you can do it yourself
I'm handy, but if I were to consider snows, I'd get tires (not wheels) and let the garage swap them.

I would suggest trying it out for 1 winter season and decide from there.
That's what I was thinking

With remote access for work, the need to drive in snow/ice isn't that high, so I'll probably decide if/when it becomes an issue.

Where is the edit button on this forum??
is there one?

Thanks!
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
14,194
17,921
Riverside Co. CA
Welcome to TMC, OP (original poster).

One thing you want to consider, is it appears to me that you might be falling into the same "trap" that many new EV purchasers (or people considering purchase) do, which is look at the range the car is supposed to have and say to yourself "I only drive 200 miles a week, this car can go 260 miles, I only need to charge it once a week, and it should be fine".

For one, you wont be charging from 100-0. Thats not how EV driving works, and its not healthy for the battery to constantly be charged to 100%. For daily use, you will be charging to a maximum of 90%, and no one runs an EV down to zero on a regular basis. You will be running the car from a normal charge of 90% to a minimum charge to roughly 20 or 30%. Lets call it 20%.

Thats from 234 miles (90% of 260) to 52 miles (20% of 260). So, when brand new, thats 182 miles as your regular usable range, not 260. Additionally, mileage will NOT roll off at a 1 mile used per 1 mile on the rated range (1:1) rate. That rate is based on the EPA range, and just like most people dont get the rated MPG in gas vehicles, the same goes with EVs. To REALLY over simplify, the only way you will get that 1:1 rated range roll off is to drive about 45-50 MPH.

That 182 miles above is really somewhere between 150-160 miles, at highway speeds, and that does not count a real winter situation, or rain (which cuts EV miles as well, rolling resistance).

So in good weather, you will likely get around 160-165 actual miles. In cold winter weather, you will likely get closer to a 30% loss of 1:1 so thats around 130-140 miles. All of this above leads to the following:

The question is NOT "is 260 miles enough for me". The question is "is 130 miles in the winter enough for me" (and this is when the car is new, not figuring in the battery degradation that will happen over your ownership, since you keep the cars).

All the above is somewhat "detail" on why the recommendation is to buy the most range you can afford. Since the car comes with autopilot, you should consider buying the long range and dropping Full self driving, since there is a budget concern / desire to get to a certain pricepoint for rebates. You can add FSD later if you want, you can not add more range to the car (unlike a gas vehicle, you are not going to "engine swap" (battery swap) a new longer range battery in it right now).

The calculations are the same above for the long range, but you start with 100 more miles.

Now, if you have home charging and only drive 200 miles a week, 130 miles range is likely fine. The model 3 is my first EV, and having owned one since late 2018, I still feel that buying the most range one can afford is the right call. Most people dont say "man I wish my EV got less range", after they have owned it for a while.
 

haroldo

Member
Apr 20, 2021
475
253
NJ
Welcome to TMC, OP (original poster).
---

Now, if you have home charging and only drive 200 miles a week, 130 miles range is likely fine. The model 3 is my first EV, and having owned one since late 2018, I still feel that buying the most range one can afford is the right call. Most people dont say "man I wish my EV got less range", after they have owned it for a while.
Wow, great response, thanks! Really appreciate the information. If there were no hard cap to MSRP for the EV rebate, it'd be a no brainer. As it is, the aftermarket autopilot isn't a problem, although there is sales tax, but considering I'd be able to get charge card points, I guess it comes down to a net ~5% tax on the autopilot (any card companies do better than 2% when used at Tesla?).
So, I think I'd get the extended range.
Again, great reply, thanks!
 
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Thanks! Yes, first EV (Hybrid driver)
Actually, my office complex has complimentary EV chargers, I'm always the first person in the office each morning (sleep is overrated!), so I can easily charge here. One other (minor) consideration, is the extended range bumps me over the NJ EV Rebate (55,000 MSRP cap), so I'd have to juggle the AutoPilot purchase from sticker, to aftermarket. Not a big deal, but then it becomes taxable (NJ EV cars are sales tax free).
Thanks for your advice
I'm confused
MSRP for a Model 3 LR AWD is currently $43,190
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
14,194
17,921
Riverside Co. CA
I'm confused
MSRP for a Model 3 LR AWD is currently $43,190

I believe that the OP is adding the cost of FSD to that, which is why I mentioned that "if there is a budget concern / rebate limit concern, drop FSD since it can be added later".

This is said as someone who has FSD on my car and likes it. I just dont comment on it any longer like most people who like FSD, so the chorus here tends to be "Its not worth it" because those who like it are waay (wayyy) over that discussion here. Even as someone who likes FSD, I would still drop it rather than getting a SR+ car with it, because you can always save up and buy it later, but you cant buy 100 more miles later without trading in the car.
 
I believe that the OP is adding the cost of FSD to that, which is why I mentioned that "if there is a budget concern / rebate limit concern, drop FSD since it can be added later".

This is said as someone who has FSD on my car and likes it. I just dont comment on it any longer like most people who like FSD, so the chorus here tends to be "Its not worth it" because those who like it are waay (wayyy) over that discussion here. Even as someone who likes FSD, I would still drop it rather than getting a SR+ car with it, because you can always save up and buy it later, but you cant buy 100 more miles later without trading in the car.
I have FSD as well and do like it BUT
if he wants the rebate with LR then wait for the upcoming subscription coming soon and if he likes it that much then make the 10K purchase
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
14,194
17,921
Riverside Co. CA
No. It's 47490. You are looking that the fake price "with potential savings"

I always click that off each time I look at pricing, so I forget that is even there. Since their "potential savings" includes more than local rebates, I really hate that they do that. its somewhat misleading at best, and nefarious at worst.
 
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I'm most likely going to get a Model 3. The main decision is battery. I typically drive under 200 miles per week, so I don't think I'd need the extended range, but in very cold (frigid) weather does the mileage suffer? The northern NJ winters haven't been too bad lately, but you never know.
I've read many posts saying the rear wheel drive is sufficient, due to the weight distribution. Have any standard range owners out there had problems with snowy hills or icy roads? Do any standard range owners regret their decision?
Thanks!
I am in New Jersey as well (North). I come from further up north. NJ is not frigid at all. I mean nowhere near as frigid as many other places either in North America or Northern Europe. It's probably "averag-ish" as far as effects of weather on EV is concerned.

I personally would never drive 4 seasons for 2 reasons a) I never did b) it's safer to have winter tires in the winter and it's more efficient to drive summer tires in the summer (or at least optimize tire selection for summer conditions range as opposed to compromise on 4 seasons conditions). IMO.

I went for the LR myself. NJ is probably one of those states where having LR is the least necessary. There are plenty of charging options in many areas so I wouldn't worry about range much. I went with the LR mostly for the dual motors and ruled out the performance to get the rebate.

Also recommend having 2 sets of wheels. I always did that personally. In my case I will be getting the 18" and use the default tires this summer than have the tires swapped for winter tires in Nov and then get a new set of wheels + tires for next spring.
 

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