Could Tesla SuC be used by ALL EVs?

[FlyinLow]

Why couldn’t Tesla make a profit off of non-Tesla EVs by allowing them to create an account, buy an adapter and use the SuC network? The cost of electricity for non-Tesla vehicles could easily be double what it is now, even with the new rate hike, and people that drive the Chevy Bolt, new I-Pace from Jaguar, etc would gladly pay it.

In places where there’s always a line for charging put in the 50 stall plug farms. Tesla needs to make money, and what better way than fulfilling their original mission statement through fast charger availability for all...at a profit?

Food for thought. Or...some smart people are going to build another well planned network of charging stations and make that money.

Instead of different brands of gas we will have different brands of chargers to visit. I’m looking forward to the next 10 years!

 

[mblakele]

Tesla is on record offering access to other automakers on reasonable terms. There were no takers.

 

[Derek Kessler]

Tesla is on record offering access to other automakers on reasonable terms. There were no takers.

That's what we call PR. Make a reasonable-seeming offer knowing full well that nobody will take you up on it. Shrug and go "Well, we tried."

 

[WarpedOne]

Make a reasonable-seeming offer

What was unreasonable about it?

 

[boaterva]

No one had the brains. All fell guilty to ‘not invented here’ syndrome (or cars never needed to come with fuel before so why now...). So they waste money on making their own (or not making their own) charging system. James Cooke mentioned yesterday in his vlog this would make the i-Pace excellent. Jaguar will never have a widespread charging network but it’s about the only thing the car is missing.

 

[boaterva]

What was unreasonable about it?

Right. It was help expand the network according to your usage, I believe. Not sure anyone has details.

 

[bonnie]

I have no doubt that if another manufacturer were to offer to build out additional superchargers, based on cars sold, that Tesla would be open to talking about it. But as said upthread (to the best of my knowledge), hasn't happened.

Besides, can you see GM admitting that the Supercharger network is a competitive edge? Because that's what they'd be doing if they started offering their customers access to the network.

 

[Derek Kessler]

What was unreasonable about it?

I didn't say it was unreasonable, did I?

It was a reasonable offer that had no chance of uptake for one simple reason: Tesla would still control the charger network. No competitor would ever feel comfortable with that. If the offer was to spin Superchargers off into a separate company, maybe it'd have stood a snowball's chance in hell, but "You can pay to use our chargers." was never going anywhere and Elon knew that when he said it.

It was good PR with zero financial risk because nobody was ever going to call.

 

[jrreno]

However I think the OP has very good point regardless of the cooperation of other car makers. Tesla could provide the adapters and an app that allowed Supercharging on their own.
The only question would be if that offering reduced the competitive advantage Tesla has due to their extensive fast charging network.

 

[FlyinLow]

I don’t think Tesla is posturing themselves to be the biggest electric car maker. Why haven’t they bought another factory for the Model 3 to be built in? Maybe with room to add the Model Y.
Why not produce the Semi in yet another factory? GM and Ford have factories in different places around the US. Tesla is going to need to do something to expand profitably.
With Elon calling for a slow down of car deliveries due to mistakes being made in the process I worry. I want them to be able to deliver 5k M3s a week, but they are struggling.
When gas/diesel standards were being formed for national, then world use, I’m sure it looked even more disorganized than the EV charging mess we have now.

 

[Derek Kessler]

I don’t think Tesla is posturing themselves to be the biggest electric car maker. Why haven’t they bought another factory for the Model 3 to be built in? Maybe with room to add the Model Y.
Why not produce the Semi in yet another factory? GM and Ford have factories in different places around the US. Tesla is going to need to do something to expand profitably.

The Fremont factory has a capacity of around 500,000 cars/year. Tesla is nowhere near that mark and won't be for several years. I have little doubt that we will eventually see more Tesla factories, but it'll be driven by local demand more than anything — cars are expensive to ship, so local factories make sense when there's enough demand.

With Elon calling for a slow down of car deliveries due to mistakes being made in the process I worry. I want them to be able to deliver 5k M3s a week, but they are struggling.

Elon was talking about deliveries in Norway only, and due to delivery trucks that had been deemed unsafe.

Tesla is going to continue struggle at this for a while. Manufacturing is hard.

 

[Chuq]

In the US this might be the case (only for vehicles which support 100 kW charging, that is). In other countries that use the 7-pin connector (eg. Europe and most of the rest of the world) it will likely be the other way around - there will be CCS Combo 2 chargers which (warning: speculation follows) Model 3s and refreshed model S & Xs from this year will be able to use natively.

 

[Derek Kessler]

The CCS spec does not permit adapters.

Tesla joined the Charin e.V. committee two years ago, likely to advocate for an allowance of such an adapter, but we've seen no movement there.

 

[Curt]

All EVs?

How about we start with all Teslas?

#RememberTheRoadster

 

[McRat]

Why couldn’t Tesla make a profit off of non-Tesla EVs by allowing them to create an account, buy an adapter and use the SuC network? The cost of electricity for non-Tesla vehicles could easily be double what it is now, even with the new rate hike, and people that drive the Chevy Bolt, new I-Pace from Jaguar, etc would gladly pay it.

In places where there’s always a line for charging put in the 50 stall plug farms. Tesla needs to make money, and what better way than fulfilling their original mission statement through fast charger availability for all...at a profit?

Food for thought. Or...some smart people are going to build another well planned network of charging stations and make that money.

Instead of different brands of gas we will have different brands of chargers to visit. I’m looking forward to the next 10 years!

Tesla could help fund their network by charging fairly high prices to other brands.
I've been saying for years that Tesla should use the SC network as a profit center. It's normally why you acquire assets.
People buy a "Tesla to CCS or CHAdeMO" device that communicates using wifi at the SC and has an encrypted serial number and password. The adapter has a CC associated with it, not a car.
Tesla sells the adapter at a profit, then 'charges' (har) a profit for use by other vehicles.
SCs that are impacted are not available to adapter users. A cellphone app tells the Adapter Owner where the closest allowed SC is. Chargers in the outlying areas which are the most expensive to support per car charge are also the ones most likely to be needed by 100 mile EVs, and can be priced accordingly.

This is both financial and psychological. It creates income from underutilized capital, but it also advertises Tesla's network, charging speed, and how much they would save on charging if they switched to the Tesla brand vehicle.

As far as why automakers have not partnered with Tesla on Superchargers can only be guessed at.
Automaker's intentions are to make profits. Would they sell more EVs if they had SC access? Sure.

But EVs don't currently make a profit. Adding costs associated with a partnership with Tesla just makes that worse, not better.

It's not a grand conspiracy. It's money at this stage. Once EVs are money makers, the business model of remote charging changes.

 

[bro1999]

The CCS spec does not permit adapters.

Tesla joined the Charin e.V. committee two years ago, likely to advocate for an allowance of such an adapter, but we've seen no movement there.

Is that really true? I've heard otherwise from people such as @TonyWilliams
My best guess is the offer to allow other manufacturers access to the SC network was a hollow one, and Elon never had any intentions of actually following up. It did make for good PR though.

 

[FlyinLow]

All EVs?

How about we start with all Teslas?

#RememberTheRoadster

I didn’t realize Roadsters were not able to use the SuC network. Wow.

I’m a person who is enjoying lifetime supercharging with a used car. Someone else paid my SuC bill. I’m thankful and learning.

 

[cwerdna]

Tesla is on record offering access to other automakers on reasonable terms. There were no takers.

Yep. For reference, I usually get my Elon quote about this from Charged EVs | Elon Musk: Tesla is in talks with other automakers about sharing the SuperCharger network (UPDATED).

 

[FlyinLow]

Yep. For reference, I usually get my Elon quote about this from Charged EVs | Elon Musk: Tesla is in talks with other automakers about sharing the SuperCharger network (UPDATED).

After digging in and reading all I can find about this topic, I say let the market work. The open patents gave anyone free access at the beginning, "they" chose not to take Tesla up on the offer. In the last year the SuC network has really matured. Maybe other EV manufacturers missed the boat for now and it is time for Tesla to take advantage of its extremely convenient range extending network. I feel a little selfish having the world available to me, when most non-Tesla EVs never go outside a small radius from home (I'm sure a few adventurous folks use the destination chargers and travel).

I've been observing EVs since about 2010 and this February I decided it was time to put my money where my mouth was. Disappointed in hybrid technology, I chose a used 2014 MS 85 with lifetime super charging since it had the best bang for my buck. The car cost me about 15% more than a Chevy Bolt, but I got the priceless charging network, a much sexier looking car, lots more room, still have a hatch back, sporty performance (rivals my ZO6 Corvette) and a pretty decent Auto Pilot (AP1).

On this crazy network I was easily able to drive 3,000 miles in the last 30 days as a new owner. Easy. Fun. It is true what they say about loving driving again. I met great people on the road and most were positive. Lots of questions from non-owners driving by while I was charging.