Cybertruck, it will be about the Tesla ecosystem around it (non Tesla Nightmare)

[Earl]

customer service????

I can't say I've had a lot of experience with Tesla's Customer Service. I've only had 3 cars with about 200K miles so I really haven't had the need to interface with them very often. Their Roadster service is terrible but, given the age and small number of cars, that is understandable.

- cant ever talk to a human being, all app based, appointments get rescheduled without explanation, often weeks out

Their app approach is a mixed bag. It definitely has improved though. I usually get a response very soon, even on Sunday evenings although it is often a bit nebulous as to what they are thinking we should do.

part availability still a mess, weeks for simple repairs

This is part of the growth pains. Understandable even though, for some things, it has be a problem but is definitely improving. We had an HVAC issue with our Model 3 and they got us in immediately, got us a loaner, and it was fixed the next day. I think one can say it is inconsistent though, especially in big cities where they just can't keep up with the demand.

uber credit only, no loaners

Yah, this is a lame shortcoming. They could at least provide a taxi option with a professional driver.
It isn't much worse than getting a lame Enterprise POJ as a loaner for your nice car like many dealers do though.

warranty work

We haven't had any warranty problems. A couple of minor issues early on that were fixed with no questions. Then we never had to do anything else until long after the warranties had expired so there were no issues there either.

 

[Earl]

I am saying - what ecosystem?

They are the only car company with an ecosystem and it is incredible.

The charging network is great.
They provide cheap home charging stations.
They provide ways to cheaply generate your own fuel as well as energy for the rest of your life.
They provide optimal accessories (eg roof racks) that fit harmoniously with their vehicles as well.
For some of us, they provide the opportunity to buy stock so that our later cars were essentially free
"Ecosystem" is about the best way to describe Tesla.

 

[kpanda17]

They are the only car company with an ecosystem and it is incredible.

The charging network is great.
They provide cheap home charging stations.
They provide ways to cheaply generate your own fuel as well as energy for the rest of your life.
They provide optimal accessories (eg roof racks) that fit harmoniously with their vehicles as well.
For some of us, they provide the opportunity to buy stock so that our later cars were essentially free
"Ecosystem" is about the best way to describe Tesla.

That’s my point
It’s not about the vehicle but everything around it

 

[afadeev]

They are the only car company with an ecosystem and it is incredible.

Have you guys actually owned any other EVs?
I'm on my 3rd, and it's my first Tesla. It ain't that special.
The "ecosystem" is just about the same across all EV brands.
If anything, Tesla's is weaker.

All this paining for mythical "Tesla ecosystem" fjords is pretty comical.

The charging network is great.
They provide cheap home charging stations.
They provide ways to cheaply generate your own fuel as well as energy for the rest of your life.
They provide optimal accessories (eg roof racks) that fit harmoniously with their vehicles as well.

• Tesla's commercial charging network is fine, yet massively overpriced (I avoid it as much as I can). It is now open to all other OEMs, so that is a non-factor.
• Tesla's home charger is generic. It's no better or worse, though more expensive, than any other L2 charger you can buy from Amazon.
• If you are referring to Tesla solar panels, that product is MIA. I was on the wait list to get a price estimate from Tesla on their Solar Roof with Powerwall, until they demanded an upfront non-refundable $1K deposit to proceed with an actual estimate! When I emailed for details, they transferred me to a local contractor who knew absolutely nothing. Then Tesla cancelled on me altogether. Fraudsters!
  • Evidently, I'm not the only one. Tesla had mass-canceled on Solar projects for most customers last year: Tesla cancels solar projects en masse, scales back solar division
• Every OEM sells accessories. I could not care less for the roof racks.

You guys keep listing basic add-ons readily available from every other OEM, and are claiming that only Tesla has them. That's either ignorant, or attempt at humor.

Don't you look at what BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, or Ford are offering with their "Ecosystem" - it will blow you socks off.
Their Ecosystem actually includes service centers that work, will accept service appointments you the spot, will answer your phone calls and questions, and actively lobby for warranty coverage on YOUR behalf against the OEM - pretty awesome and amazing, right?

For some of us, they provide the opportunity to buy stock so that our later cars were essentially free

You are confusing asset allocation with vehicle ownership.
There should be zero correlation between the two, if you are acting in your own best interest.

It’s not about the vehicle but everything around it

To me, it's precisely the opposite.
I bought Tesla 100% for the vehicle.
Everything else around it is either generic, or frankly is turning into dumpster-fire baggage as of late.

To each his own,
a

 

[texas_star_TM3]

They are the only car company with an ecosystem and it is incredible.

The charging network is great.
They provide cheap home charging stations.
They provide ways to cheaply generate your own fuel as well as energy for the rest of your life.
They provide optimal accessories (eg roof racks) that fit harmoniously with their vehicles as well.
For some of us, they provide the opportunity to buy stock so that our later cars were essentially free
"Ecosystem" is about the best way to describe Tesla.

it's great and will be great for Ford/GM/Mercedes/Volvo/Rivian etc. Advantage for Tesla only is therefore gone.

The tesla home charging station is no different than Fords/ VW's / GMs / Bosch etc. it's a level 2 charger installed at home. nothing revolutionary there.

 

[kpanda17]

We see many moves from other EV ownerships to Tesla
And the Tesla global market share shows
For these people it’s better with Tesla

We can debate and debate, on the ecosystem topic, let’s agree to disagree

 

[Earl]

Have you guys actually owned any other EVs?

Yes. 4 others. This ain't my first rodeo. It's just head and shoulders above the rest.

Tesla's commercial charging network is fine, yet massively overpriced

You may not fully grasp the economics of public charging. It requires installation (including massive bureaucratic costs) and Tesla does this at a quality level way higher than any others. It requires regular maintenance, even in remote areas. It also requires electricity and most of those using public charging tend to do so at the times of peak electricity consumption and minimum solar contribution. It really is expensive if you use public chargers at convenient times. EVs are only dirt cheap if you charge at off-peak times.

It is now open to all other OEMs, so that is a non-factor.

Not in this universe yet. Hopefully, Tesla's great ecosystem will eventually envelope the others now that they've been shamed into actually supporting instead of fighting EVs.

though more expensive, than any other L2 charger you can buy from Amazon.

I minimize purchasing from Amazon. I've gotten counterfeit junk too may times and hate the obnoxious drivers who seem to think they are more important than others with whom they share the roads as they double park blocking traffic for the rest of us.
Let's compare with quality ones that are actually UL tested.
Have fun burning your house down.

Tesla solar panels, that product is MIA

Our solar panels are not from Tesla but I know plenty who have theirs. They are kind of the McDonalds of solar but those who have them haven't had any problems. There are a lot of folks competing for some markets so cancellations are likely.
One is not forced to use Tesla's ecosystem.

Every OEM sells accessories. I could not care less for the roof racks

Yes, but they'll kill your aerodynamic efficiency.

BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, or Ford are offering with their "Ecosystem" - it will blow you socks off

Perhaps, too bad they offer such pathetic EVs. i3 anyone? How about a Leaf that charges at 16 amps max, whose battery is effectively dead after 4 years. What does Mercedes even offer? Fords can't even get out of the driveway while waiting for working parts.
And then you get to fuss around for 20 minutes just to get a charging session started after waiting an hour for the one working charger to free up.

If you're happy with the others then good on you. I'm glad someone hasn't given up on them. It won't be good for Tesla to own the whole auto industry.

 

[Earl]

Advantage for Tesla only is therefore gone.

Except that they own it.

The tesla home charging station is no different than Fords/ VW's / GMs / Bosch etc. it's a level 2 charger installed at home. nothing revolutionary there.

Yes, they're starting to catch up with 48 amps or greater after over a decade but they're a lot more expensive. However, Tesla's power sharing is still alone and ahead of the rest.

 

[kpanda17]

Yes. 4 others. This ain't my first rodeo. It's just head and shoulders above the rest.

You may not fully grasp the economics of public charging. It requires installation (including massive bureaucratic costs) and Tesla does this at a quality level way higher than any others. It requires regular maintenance, even in remote areas. It also requires electricity and most of those using public charging tend to do so at the times of peak electricity consumption and minimum solar contribution. It really is expensive if you use public chargers at convenient times. EVs are only dirt cheap if you charge at off-peak times.

Not in this universe yet. Hopefully, Tesla's great ecosystem will eventually envelope the others now that they've been shamed into actually supporting instead of fighting EVs.


I minimize purchasing from Amazon. I've gotten counterfeit junk too may times and hate the obnoxious drivers who seem to think they are more important than others with whom they share the roads as they double park blocking traffic for the rest of us.
Let's compare with quality ones that are actually UL tested.
Have fun burning your house down.

Our solar panels are not from Tesla but I know plenty who have theirs. They are kind of the McDonalds of solar but those who have them haven't had any problems. There are a lot of folks competing for some markets so cancellations are likely.
One is not forced to use Tesla's ecosystem.

Yes, but they'll kill your aerodynamic efficiency.

Perhaps, too bad they offer such pathetic EVs. i3 anyone? How about a Leaf that charges at 16 amps max, whose battery is effectively dead after 4 years. What does Mercedes even offer? Fords can't even get out of the driveway while waiting for working parts.
And then you get to fuss around for 20 minutes just to get a charging session started after waiting an hour for the one working charger to free up.

If you're happy with the others then good on you. I'm glad someone hasn't given up on them. It won't be good for Tesla to own the whole auto industry.

Your speaking the words of many Tesla fans
But let’s agree to disagee

 

[Earl]

Your speaking the words of many Tesla fans

I see it more that Tesla is a fan of me. I'm not a fan but I fully appreciate that they keep doing what I want:
- Make EVs instead of crushing them (figuratively and literally)
- Make good EVs
- support alternative energy to power my EV (I prefer SunPower but Tesla is definitely trying)
- provide reliable charging infrastructure so I can use my EV while away from home
- enable me to be personally independent of gasoline
- enable anyone to be independent of gasoline (or at least working towards it)
- push the rest of the, kicking and screaming auto industry to offer useful EVs. None would be doing anything EV without Tesla. Nissan was an independent push but the ICE antibodies formed and ejected Ghosn.

While they aren't perfect by any measure and I have my share of complaints, nobody else is even coming close. BYD is sort of trying to do the right thing from a product manufacturing perspective but stopping there.

Like anything, different strokes for different folks so you're welcome to disagree.

 

[kpanda17]

I see it more that Tesla is a fan of me. I'm not a fan but I fully appreciate that they keep doing what I want:
- Make EVs instead of crushing them (figuratively and literally)
- Make good EVs
- support alternative energy to power my EV (I prefer SunPower but Tesla is definitely trying)
- provide reliable charging infrastructure so I can use my EV while away from home
- enable me to be personally independent of gasoline
- enable anyone to be independent of gasoline (or at least working towards it)
- push the rest of the, kicking and screaming auto industry to offer useful EVs. None would be doing anything EV without Tesla. Nissan was an independent push but the ICE antibodies formed and ejected Ghosn.

While they aren't perfect by any measure and I have my share of complaints, nobody else is even coming close. BYD is sort of trying to do the right thing from a product manufacturing perspective but stopping there.

Like anything, different strokes for different folks so you're welcome to disagree.

And a repeatbly updated multi year sustainability plan, open for debate, and change/buy in
The vision of rhe future

https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/Tesla-Master-Plan-Part-3.pdf

No other EV manuf is advertising that they think about this holistically
Not even BYD