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Daily Charge Rate - 80/85/90 % ?

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I know this is a popular subject, but there still doesn't seem to be a consensus as to what's best for daily charging limits. No official
number from Tesla in the manual other than "the best way to keep your battery healthy is to keep it plugged in ".

So if most folks set it to 80%, why not set it to 90%? Is there any practical reason not to?
 
Because 80% is the sweet spot to prevent battery degradation. There have been studies on Lithium/Ion polymer batteries by Battery University and the least degradation happened on batteries where the SoC was kept between 65 and 75 % most of the time. I'm sure that 60 - 80% on a daily basis will just be as good.. Even 50% to 80% should be great for your battery's life expectancy.





DST-cycles-web2.jpg
 
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I'm probably going to set my limit to 50% for daily driving as I have an extremely short commute. I'll up that as required for weekend trips and such.
I saw a YouTube video recently that experienced a lot of loss in the software from keeping the battery that low for long periods of time. It confuses the software so it doesn't calculate the battery stats correctly.

The conclusion that they got from Tesla, was that if you are going to keep your charge rate down, then once every couple of months make sure you top it off to 100%. This will keep the battery and software calibrated correctly.
 
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I saw a YouTube video recently that experienced a lot of loss in the software from keeping the battery that low for long periods of time. It confuses the software so it doesn't calculate the battery stats correctly.

The conclusion that they got from Tesla, was that if you are going to keep your charge rate down, then once every couple of months make sure you top it off to 100%. This will keep the battery and software calibrated correctly.
I read something similar on this forum as well. While 50% would be the standard for me, I'd vary the levels from time to time as well. Thanks for heads up though, appreciate it.
 
but there still doesn't seem to be a consensus as to what's best for daily charging limits.
Because there can't be any ONE consensus. Lithium ion batteries prefer to be near a middle state of charge for least damage/degradation long term, as @FloridaSun is referencing. But that's usually not practical for most people to use a car. They need more range than that to not be constantly worrying and stressing about it. So you will probably need to set that limit up higher to have enough range for your needs. So you pick whatever seems like a decent balance for you.
I saw a YouTube video recently that experienced a lot of loss in the software from keeping the battery that low for long periods of time. It confuses the software so it doesn't calculate the battery stats correctly.
That's not actual energy loss though. You're right that the estimation algorithm will get pretty far off from not letting it see the farther extents of the high and low, but that's number display error.
The conclusion that they got from Tesla, was that if you are going to keep your charge rate down, then once every couple of months make sure you top it off to 100%. This will keep the battery and software calibrated correctly.
That's not doing anything physically helpful for the battery, but if that makes someone feel better to have the display tuned in more, then sure, they can if they want.
 
I saw a YouTube video recently that experienced a lot of loss in the software from keeping the battery that low for long periods of time. It confuses the software so it doesn't calculate the battery stats correctly.

The conclusion that they got from Tesla, was that if you are going to keep your charge rate down, then once every couple of months make sure you top it off to 100%. This will keep the battery and software calibrated correctly.
Could it have been this video?
 
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Best advice from GM (granted, slightly different chemistry) is if you are planning to store long term to target "medium" SOC, and the consensus in most EV communities is cycling around the mid point is best for battery health. The charts shown don't show testing of this use case, but other charts I have seen bear that out as accurate. As FinalAsgard says, this can confuse BMS systems, so an occasional full charge is a good idea. With my 50 mile commute I will probably set it to 50% or 60% most of the time.

Keith
 
Because 80% is the sweet spot to prevent battery degradation. There have been studies on Lithium/Ion polymer batteries by Battery University and the least degradation happened on batteries where the SoC was kept between 65 and 75 % most of the time. I'm sure that 60 - 80% on a daily basis will just be as good.. Even 50% to 80% should be great for your battery's life expectancy.

yes, and even my laptop defaults to keeping an 80% charge, unless I go in and manually change it to 100%, which I don't.
 
yes, and even my laptop defaults to keeping an 80% charge, unless I go in and manually change it to 100%, which I don't.
I looked this up when I first heard about it, and unfortunately, Windows can't necessarily control that by itself. It has to be something the laptop manufacturer has enabled in their BIOS, since that is what more directly controls the battery handling, and if they have it, THEN it can be managed with Windows or other software utilities. And unfortunately, it's only about half the laptop manufacturers that enable that. And unfortunately, HP is one of the ones that does not have it enabled, and HP is who our company gets all its laptops from. So they sit there, hooked up to docking stations charging all day at 100%, gradually nuking their batteries. Sigh...
 
I looked this up when I first heard about it, and unfortunately, Windows can't necessarily control that by itself. It has to be something the laptop manufacturer has enabled in their BIOS, since that is what more directly controls the battery handling, and if they have it, THEN it can be managed with Windows or other software utilities. And unfortunately, it's only about half the laptop manufacturers that enable that. And unfortunately, HP is one of the ones that does not have it enabled, and HP is who our company gets all its laptops from. So they sit there, hooked up to docking stations charging all day at 100%, gradually nuking their batteries. Sigh...
right. Agree. That is exactly what is happening. The BIOS is controlling it.
 
First off, Tesla makes some great batteries and some great battery management software, so if you need to use your car, do it and don't worry about it.

That said, if you can baby it, you can probably prolong the life some.

Sounds like 60% to 70% is ideal.

Doing a smaller depth of discharge (so plugging in every night vs once a week) seems to be better

Charging at 1C or less (so for a 75kWh pack at 75kW or less) is better (so if you level 2 all the time you're golden)

Keeping the battery cooler is better, especially when charging or near full. (This is probably less of an issue because the Tesla will do it's thing to keep the temperature where it wants to)

Since I only drive about 8 miles a day and maybe 20 miles a day on the weekends I do this...

Charge to 75%. Charge at 32 amps and 240v (so 0.1C). Charge every night (Less than 5% depth of discharge)

I only had my Model 3 for about 7000 miles but at the time it showed less than 0.5% degradation. I've only had my Model Y for 2500 miles so it's really too early to notice any degradation.
 
Because 80% is the sweet spot to prevent battery degradation. There have been studies on Lithium/Ion polymer batteries by Battery University and the least degradation happened on batteries where the SoC was kept between 65 and 75 % most of the time. I'm sure that 60 - 80% on a daily basis will just be as good.. Even 50% to 80% should be great for your battery's life expectancy.

View attachment 670859
That graph is misleading. It specifically references DST cycles not distance. If you read the research paper, the Dynamic Stress Test (DST) cycle is a single cycle of the battery just to the levels specified. It is NOT a normal battery cycle of 100%-0%-100% or equivalent. So doing 4000 DST cycles of the black line (75% Depth of Discharge) would provide 7.5x the energy output of yellow line (10% DoD).

Recognizing this is critical, as we need to convert each of the respective DST cycles to an equivalent distance in miles. By assuming a pack size (78 kWh) and car efficiency (250 Wh/mi), we can make that conversion to distance, which is what we really care about. I did this a few years ago and here’s the result...

Li-Ion Degradation.png


From this, a few observations:
1) Charging to 100% leads to significantly higher degradation over time
2) The degradation seen in this test is over an equivalent distance that far exceeds how long many people would own and operate a vehicle (many 100,000 miles)
3) Average SoC is potentially more important than low DoD to reduce degradation. Notice the black (0.63 Ave SOC) is consistently above the blue (0.75 Ave SOC).
4) Trends from the teal, magenta, green and yellow lines are harder to discern as the conclusions vary based on distance (battery age) as well as their DoD and average SoC assumptions.

So yes, recharging nightly (small DoD) and hovering around mid-charge is technically better for the battery, but the reduction in degradation is likely to be hard or impossible to discern as long as you avoid routine charging to high SOC. Important caveats are that these results are dependent on Li-ion chemistry, battery temperature, storage duration at high and low SOC, thermal management algorithms, discharge/recharge rate, etc.
 
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That graph is misleading. It specifically references DST cycles not distance. If you read the research paper, the Dynamic Stress Test (DST) cycle is a single cycle of the battery just to the levels specified. It is NOT a normal battery cycle of 100%-0%-100% or equivalent. So doing 4000 DST cycles of the black line (75% Depth of Discharge) would provide 7.5x the energy output of yellow line (10% DoD).

Recognizing this is critical, as we need to convert each of the respective DST cycles to an equivalent distance in miles. By assuming a pack size (78 kWh) and car efficiency (250 Wh/mi), we can make that conversion to distance, which is what we really care about. I did this a few years ago and here’s the result...

View attachment 671153

From this, a few observations:
1) Charging to 100% leads to significantly higher degradation over time
2) The degradation seen in this test is over an equivalent distance that far exceeds how long many people would own and operate a vehicle (many 100,000 miles)
3) Average SoC is potentially more important than low DoD to reduce degradation. Notice the black (0.63 Ave SOC) is consistently above the blue (0.75 Ave SOC).
4) Trends from the teal, magenta, green and yellow lines are harder to discern as the conclusions vary based on distance (battery age) as well as their DoD and average SoC assumptions.

So yes, recharging nightly (small DoD) and hovering around mid-charge is technically better for the battery, but the reduction in degradation is likely to be hard or impossible to discern as long as you avoid routine charging to high SOC. Important caveats are that these results are dependent on Li-ion chemistry, battery temperature, storage duration at high and low SOC, thermal management algorithms, discharge/recharge rate, etc.
1 cycle = 100% battery charge. So, 10 charges of 65 - 75% is one cycle or 326 rated miles. However, as the battery degrades, one cycle becomes less miles
 
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If you read the research paper, the Dynamic Stress Test (DST) cycle is a single cycle of the battery just to the levels specified. It is NOT a normal battery cycle of 100%-0%-100% or equivalent.

1 cycle = 100% battery charge. So, 10 charges of 65 - 75% is one cycle or 326 rated miles. However, as the battery degrades, one cycle becomes less miles
Nope - that's not the methodology used in this research.

Page 6: "For each test, the cell first starts at a set SoC level and the DST profile is applied repetitively until the set stop level is reached. The cell is then recharged back to the starting level at a 1 C-rate to finish one test cycle."
 
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Nope - that's not the methodology used in this research.

Page 6: "For each test, the cell first starts at a set SoC level and the DST profile is applied repetitively until the set stop level is reached. The cell is then recharged back to the starting level at a 1 C-rate to finish one test cycle."
I'm not sure I'm following.. What I meant was that 10 charges from 65 - 75% = 1 cycle.. So, they charge from 65 to 75, discharge to 65 and repeat until they reach one full cycle.. 1 cycle is not the same as one charge.
 
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Because 80% is the sweet spot to prevent battery degradation. There have been studies on Lithium/Ion polymer batteries by Battery University and the least degradation happened on batteries where the SoC was kept between 65 and 75 % most of the time. I'm sure that 60 - 80% on a daily basis will just be as good.. Even 50% to 80% should be great for your battery's life expectancy.





View attachment 670859
I've seen this graph many times for several years now. We all agree that it's best to keep your battery around the 50% mark however, the research noted that High voltage and high temperatures degrades the battery quicker than normal cycling. They note a Nissan Leaf as their example of this. I think Tesla does a remarkable job keeping the pack cool as needed, especially when supercharging. Even when charging on Level 2 in the garage, I here fan at low speed cycling when charging our MY or MX. I also don't think they were testing electric vehicles. Unless I missed it, these test were with a cell phone battery.