Delta M8-TL-US free from too high frequency for UPS issue?

[jboy210]

There have been discussions about needing to raise frequencies too high to cause inverters to shutdown when off grid and the PowerWalls get full. And that frequency is too high it causes issues with UPS units. Does anyone know if this inverter suffers from this issue? The placard on the side says:

• AC Nominal Operating Frequency: 60Hz
• AC Operating Frequency Range: 59.3-60.5 Hz

Does that mean it should shutdown if frequency goes outside this range?

 

[miimura]

Yes. If the frequency goes outside the limits shown, there will be no solar output.
When the grid is up, it controls the frequency. When the grid is down, the Powerwalls control the frequency. Since the solar inverters are grid-tied, they just follow along with the line frequency until it goes out of range.

 

[Ampster]

Yes, most likely it will go off line. What happens to your UPSs is a separate issue depending on their sensitivity to frequency.

 

[jboy210]

My UPS units show frequency 60 Hz +/- 3 Hz. So I guess to ensure the PW does not mess with my UPS and other gear I just need to ensure that it only raises the frequency above the inverter limit when the PW is full and want to shut down the inverter and the grid is down, and less than the 63 Hz the Hz can tolerate. Is that correct ? And I assume the closer it is to 60Hz the better all devices.

 

[Ampster]

I have heard that some people have had luck with getting Tesla to set a limit, once the parameters of your GT inverters is known. Or you could experiment. My wild ass guess is that your inverter doesn't ramp down but rather shuts down and that would probably mean that once the PowerWall sees that it would not need to increase the frequency past the shutoff. For my own comfort I would trust a real time test over any opinion I got on the Internet.

 

[jboy210]

I have heard that some people have had luck with getting Tesla to set a limit, once the parameters of your GT inverters is known. Or you could experiment. My wild ass guess is that your inverter doesn't ramp down but rather shuts down and that would probably mean that once the PowerWall sees that it would not need to increase the frequency past the shutoff. For my own comfort I would trust a real time test over any opinion I got on the Internet.

Definitely going to run a test, but want to ensure I can explain what I expect to the Tesla techs that will be here this week to complete the install.

 

[Ampster]

Definitely going to run a test, but want to ensure I can explain what I expect to the Tesla techs that will be here this week to complete the install.

That sounds like a good plan.

 

[jjrandorin]

Definitely going to run a test, but want to ensure I can explain what I expect to the Tesla techs that will be here this week to complete the install.

The tesla techs onsite wont be able to change this, and the issue is that out of the box the powerwalls WILL be set to send a 65 hz frequency to shut down the solar, which is higher than what your inverters will need. You likely want the frequency set to 62 hz, but the tier 2 energy support people at the mothership have to set it.

They also need to see the 65 hz signal, and you wont be able to get anything that generates that signal until you run a test, with the main breaker off, and the powerwalls full. Its unfortunate, but you will likely not be able to jump the gun on this, because the installers wont be able to do anything other than submit the ticket on your behalf, most likely.

Maybe, because you are getting a solar roof, you will be able to charge the powerwalls to 100% and then run the test? I posted specific information that I talked to tesla about based on the experiences here that was successful in getting them to change it, in another thread.

 

[jboy210]

The tesla techs onsite wont be able to change this, and the issue is that out of the box the powerwalls WILL be set to send a 65 hz frequency to shut down the solar, which is higher than what your inverters will need. You likely want the frequency set to 62 hz, but the tier 2 energy support people at the mothership have to set it.

They also need to see the 65 hz signal, and you wont be able to get anything that generates that signal until you run a test, with the main breaker off, and the powerwalls full. Its unfortunate, but you will likely not be able to jump the gun on this, because the installers wont be able to do anything other than submit the ticket on your behalf, most likely.

Maybe, because you are getting a solar roof, you will be able to charge the powerwalls to 100% and then run the test? I posted specific information that I talked to tesla about based on the experiences here that was successful in getting them to change it, in another thread.

Thanks J. I will check with the installer and see if they can coordinate this a little earlier and as you say, get a ticket going with the Level 2 team. I know they want to run some off-line testing before they sign off that the roof install is working.

 

[gpez]

My UPS units show frequency 60 Hz +/- 3 Hz. So I guess to ensure the PW does not mess with my UPS and other gear I just need to ensure that it only raises the frequency above the inverter limit when the PW is full and want to shut down the inverter and the grid is down, and less than the 63 Hz the Hz can tolerate. Is that correct ? And I assume the closer it is to 60Hz the better all devices.

This is correct on all counts!

Correct that you want your off-grid frequency maximum set to reverse Price is Right showcase showdown rules (closest without going under) compared with your inverter shutoff frequency. My inverters shut off at 61.8hz (I have curtailment configured between 60.0hz and 61.8hz) so my Powerwall frequency maximum is just over that at 62.0hz.

Correct that the closer you are to 60hz the better you are for all devices. Most everything plugged in to a wall can tolerate a hz or two difference but once you start getting in to the 3hz+ difference range things start to misbehave, not work at all, or maybe worse.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks J. I will check with the installer and see if they can coordinate this a little earlier and as you say, get a ticket going with the Level 2 team. I know they want to run some off-line testing before they sign off that the roof install is working.

Good luck, report back on that aspect (getting the installers to escalate ). If enough people escalate this, there will eventually be more options for getting this setup, etc. The best driver for fixing something like this is the "number of tickets" showing up on some decision makers desk as an item, then them tasking someone with fixing the root cause.

 

[jboy210]

Good luck, report back on that aspect (getting the installers to escalate ). If enough people escalate this, there will eventually be more options for getting this setup, etc. The best driver for fixing something like this is the "number of tickets" showing up on some decision makers desk as an item, then them tasking someone with fixing the root cause.

Will do. The electrical installers are here right now finishing up the connection to PG&E. Roof is still on going, so they will not do "flip the switch" testing until after the roof is done. They are planning on being back early next week to conduct that, and said at that time they would log a ticket with second tier support to minimize over 60Hz frequency to shutdown inverters.

 

[egaertner]

I asked my electrical crew about the 65Hz thing and said they had no idea and couldn’t set it anyways. Nice they offered to submit a ticket for you. I’m waiting to hear back on a tier2 ticket to trim the low end, running at 59.5Hz when off grid and screwing with the clocks.

 

[jboy210]

I asked my electrical crew about the 65Hz thing and said they had no idea and couldn’t set it anyways. Nice they offered to submit a ticket for you. I’m waiting to hear back on a tier2 ticket to trim the low end, running at 59.5Hz when off grid and screwing with the clocks.

I got the feeling this frequency thing is becoming a common request. I doubt likely to this forum and the people contributing knowledge.

As far as clocks go, I believe all of our clocks except 1 or 2 are Wifi devices and are set via NTP. This was great during this weekend's time change. The clocks were all set right Sunday morning and I did not have to walk around the house resetting them.

 

[gpez]

I got the feeling this frequency thing is becoming a common request. I doubt likely to this forum and the people contributing knowledge.

As far as clocks go, I believe all of our clocks except 1 or 2 are Wifi devices and are set via NTP. This was great during this weekend's time change. The clocks were all set right Sunday morning and I did not have to walk around the house resetting them.

IoT clocks. We live in amazing times.

 

[jboy210]

IoT clocks. We live in amazing times.

I will date myself and say I remember having to dial P-O-P-C-O-R-N on a landline to get the date and time to set clocks every fall and spring. Things are much better now!

 

[Ampster]

I will date myself and say I remember having to dial P-O-P-C-O-R-N on a landline to get the date and time to set clocks every fall and spring.

And with a rotary dial phone no less.LOL

 

[woferry]

Heh. It was T-I-5-1212 for time in the 215 area code (and W-E-5-1212 for weather). I was all touch-tone, though. Of course TI5-1212 generally only got a call after DST changes or power outages, WE5-1212 got called almost every day in my house.