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Did Tesla’s Sale Alienate Everyone?
- Thread starter dnvr-ev
- Start date
gilscales
Banned
Option B please, or is that option 2, anyway I'll keep the car at least until I can get a test drive in the Y
The irony to me is this is something the entire auto/dealer industry does except no one complains because getting a "deal" is about how you feel you did in negotiating with the dealership. Everyone pays a different price for their cars.
Tesla, doesn't negotiate. The price is what they say it is. Just because they have a sale doesn't mean you deserve a refund. If you agreed to pay the price you paid, then it was worth it to you at the price you bought it as otherwise you wouldn't have purchased. No one is forcing people to buy the car.
Tesla, doesn't negotiate. The price is what they say it is. Just because they have a sale doesn't mean you deserve a refund. If you agreed to pay the price you paid, then it was worth it to you at the price you bought it as otherwise you wouldn't have purchased. No one is forcing people to buy the car.
DB-Cooper
Member
The issue isn't that simple. As you say, there's more behind the scenes. Also, there are just some other issues at play:
First, traditional dealerships are playing with their own profit margin. Tesla has repeatedly said to offer the lowest prices to consumers, they cut out the dealers. Then when things like tax credits end (not their money), suddenly they have enough margin to absorb it. It seems like they're having their cake and eating it too.
Second, while manufacturers run front-end and back-end rebates to move cars, with the exception of cars that just absolutely aren't moving, they're fairly straight forward and often get lost inside the dealership margin anyways, so it's not as direct as this. They also are in normal capacity somewhat sheltered from the resale value. Lowering the MSRP directly works against residual values in a very transparent and direct manner.
Third, the Tesla Model 3 is the best selling sedan on the market. It's not typical for someone buying a very popular car to see hefty rebates/price changes/etc. The whole thing about Tesla and the Model 3 was long wait times, reservations, exclusivity, patience, etc. Cars in these situations don't often have the value pulled out of them so quickly and so aggressively. This isn't/wasn't buying a run of the mil 1500 pickup truck where thousands are available in any city to buy today. Long story short, there was a general feeling that resale on Tesla was strong based on some of the aforementioned reasons, very quickly that changed significantly.
Fourth, luxury cars and performance cars in this class (BMW, Audi, Lexus, Benz, etc.) don't tend to offer significant price moves, this helps keep their resale reasonably high (exception being model end clearances or poor moving inventory (e.g. Lexus RCF but not ES350/RX350).
In reality, we should've all seen this coming. Tesla ramped up so much production and got themselves involved in "fear-based selling" with the tax credits. They pulled in just about every on-the-fence buyer into 2018. They basically sold into their mid-range buyer base and then on Jan 1st, suddenly they've got all this production and not enough demand because they fear-sold on a compelling event that ended. There isn't enough Europe/Chinese demand overnight to meet their production capacity and "new normal" of production. So on Jan 2nd, they absorb the tax credit to try and make those who didn't quite come over the fence buy, spurring demand. That barely helped as expected, so then they lower the price again to spur demand, then they do this, do that with packaging. It's clear, Tesla has to find a way to move significant Model 3s before the Ys ship. They've caught themselves in a bit of a never-ending cycle. Now they've raised prices and everyone on the fence will probably wait as they know it can they'll go lower again. If a potential buyer hasn't bought by now, they can probably continue to wait, so Tesla is in dire straits and will have to continue making compelling events to bring these people in. Tesla should've just stuck to their guns and commanded the price points people were paying. Tesla went from Apple in stable price and value to that of LG's cheapest line of TVs where every week there needs to be a sale and front-page advertisement to motivate someone to buy,.
I humble'y wish they didn't advertise so aggressively about the year-end tax credits ending and open dealers til midnight on the 31st and put all that "end of the world" pricing marketing into play to only absorb it 24 hours later. Also saying that a price is cheaper now then in the future and then drastically slashing the price and not taking care of those who pre-paid is a downer. All of those shenanigans just seems a bit unclassy for a company in my opinion. I have a lot less trust in their words/tweets. I ordered my M3 based on the 8 week delivery at the end of October for the tax credits. I didn't need a car for 3-4 months, but I bought ahead and double paid insurance, etc. My car arrived in 10 days which actually somewhat upset me, and turns out had I just waited the 4 months, I would've been way better off in many regards (newer car, lower price, etc. etc.). I paid cash so at least I don't get a monthly reminder and I'm sure time will help my negative perception.
Finally, there are so many threads about how pre-ordering EAP and FSD now would be more beneficial than ordering later, and that is simply patently false. I really feel for the people who pre-paid FSD at $5K and received nothing and couldn't even opt to buy the reduced price one later and get a refund. Similarly, those who bought EAP are caught in this strange middle-ground where buying FSD means they're rebuying much of the technology they already paid for in EAP (Summon/Advanced Summor, NoA, etc.). When Tesla slashed prices, they went to their install base who already paid more and ran a sale to get more money out of them. That's classically hilarious, sometimes I wonder if they laugh at their consumer base. "We're going to screw these previous buyers over by slashing the MSRP, let's go ahead and just sell them something else at a perceived discount and watch them all buy and be excited." In reality, Tesla could never win this pricing debacle, the sales just added salt the wounds of their most loyal. The timing of all of it is just too soon, too much, too fast, too wreckless. People valued the cars at their original prices, people who want a Tesla, want a Tesla and will buy one, they should've stuck to their pricing as there's really nothing else in the competitive segment. Tesla is its own worst enemy. As others have said, I love the car, I really question and loathe the company now. Fortunately, they have a loyal and forgiving fan base, but they definitely alienated a small chunk of that base. I simply don't recommend Tesla to others anymore, I instead caution on the immaturity and instability of the company and its product packaging/pricing. That said, I do admit it's a great "vehicle".
I didn't care that much about the vehicle price drops. I have had my 3 for over a year now, so price drops are to be expected.
What I am mad about was the price of FSD dropping when not a single feature had been delivered yet. And I can't get a refund if I wanted to for an undelivered product. Some folks have been waiting over two years for even one FSD feature to show up, at what point does Tesla have to answer for that?
Maybe this year will be "the one" where we finally get a FSD feature that EAP folks don't get. Then I can finally say my $3k bought something. Maybe.
What I am mad about was the price of FSD dropping when not a single feature had been delivered yet. And I can't get a refund if I wanted to for an undelivered product. Some folks have been waiting over two years for even one FSD feature to show up, at what point does Tesla have to answer for that?
Maybe this year will be "the one" where we finally get a FSD feature that EAP folks don't get. Then I can finally say my $3k bought something. Maybe.
gilscales
Banned
My shopping experience proved different in 2014 when looking at Mercedes, BMW and Audi, BMW and Mercedes were more competitive in pricing and we eventually settled on a BMW 5 series with a 70k plus msrp and a 58K plus sales price, discounts started at 1/2 of this but with competition so fierce and each company striving to take back the lead in sales numbers the price became much less in the end.
DB-Cooper
Member
I was more referring to the 3, C, A/S cars not the mid-size where there definitely is more room.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I per-ordered a Pixel 3, and they dropped the price only a few weeks after they started shipping them. I couldn't care less...and I couldn't care less about a Model 3 price drop. I was fine with the Pixel 3 price when I initially ordered it, and I'm still fine with what we paid for our Model 3.
Don't sweat the small stuff, people.
Don't sweat the small stuff, people.
Would you have still been cool with it if they had lowered the preorder price before they shipped and they didnt lower your price? And they also told you you couldn't cancel your pre-order to get the better price?
Good points, but you are forgetting that it doesn’t matter how you tell people to feel. It matters how they actually feel. Most stores let you know if a sale is coming soon and they have a price matching policy. People who are good negotiators always walk out of a dealership with the best deal possible. Tesla got away from that with flat pricing, so perhaps there is an expectation of fairness which comes with flat pricing.
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I would say that Tesla’s days of flat and transparent pricing are over. Now you need to either negotiate a good deal or wait until they have another sale if you want to pay less than MSRP. I really prefer it that way, but I tend to enjoy the hunt.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Would I have been "cool" with it? Not sure how to answer that. I would have been sad that I missed out on a price drop after I had agreed to a higher price, sure. This has occurred with other products I've ordered before.
I went on with my life...so I guess I was "cool" with it.
The company definitely lost alot of good will, especially since they basically harvested the tax credit for themselves and hurt the resale value of the cars by lowering prices to account for the credit.
Fair enough. That is how I feel about my FSD purchase. Disappointed that Tesla lowered the price before they had delivered a single feature. I am just considering the whole thing to be a several thousand dollar kick in the teeth at this point. Really disappointing in the end, but sure, life goes on. Learned a lesson about Tesla, for sure.
I am actually not expecting HW3 for my $$ either, but maybe eventually they will deliver something to FSD buyers. I will probably feel better about the whole thing on that day.
DB-Cooper
Member
timk225
Active Member
I actually bought my $2000 AP by accident. I was already aware of the $2000 sale price, and was on the edge about it, as I was about to buy a rental duplex and needed cash for that. So one night in early March, I was clicking around the Tesla site after midnight, half asleep, and accidentally hit the PLACE ORDER button. Then I woke up real quick! My $7000+ tax refund from my Tesla tax credit was in my checking account, so the transaction went through.
I wrote to customer service explaining my accidental purchase and could they cancel it, then the next day it was announced that the sale was ending early, so I decided to keep it. A couple days later customer service wrote back and said all sales were final, they could not / would not refund it. I wrote back and said it was ok, I had decided to keep it.
I wrote to customer service explaining my accidental purchase and could they cancel it, then the next day it was announced that the sale was ending early, so I decided to keep it. A couple days later customer service wrote back and said all sales were final, they could not / would not refund it. I wrote back and said it was ok, I had decided to keep it.
Elon should read this ^^^
I think that is what is most bothersome. They lost confidence in themselves and now I’ve lost confidence in them as well.
They never should have done the P3D+ refund. Even though I got $5k back on P3D-. I would have preferred never getting that refund and kept my perceived confidence as it was was when I bought the car. As well as the public’s. I’m not sure how much harm has been done to the public perception.
No, wait they never should have lowered the P3D+ price in the first place. I think that’s when it all first started.
I agree I think they pushed a little to hard at the end of Q3 and Q4. And paying the price in Q1 2019.
Hello! Tesla has been not telegraphing, but flat out 100% percent stating and declaring that their plan was a 35k base Model 3 with all the variants corresponding to that price for YEARS! YEARS!
Early adopters and purchasers - thank you for furthering the mission for an electric car future (this includes me. yes, my S, X and 3 are all worth less now. Elon should PERSONALLY reimburse me - not). Tesla is poised to dominate for years with the best electric cars on the market. The frantic OEMs scrambling to catch up will only further accelerate the electrification of the global fleet. The next ten years will be stunning and a great time to be alive.
Everyone who borrowed money to buy the car - no one told you to do that. If you need me to tell you that the worst investment you could make is to buy a new car, and that you should treat it like an awful stock investment that drops thirty to fifty percent a year, well then the term clueless comes to mind. Don’t do it again if you did. Never borrow money you absolutely do not have to buy a car.
Complainers about how the company screwed you and how you are under water now because of evil Elon and bad Tesla...see above.
Early adopters and purchasers - thank you for furthering the mission for an electric car future (this includes me. yes, my S, X and 3 are all worth less now. Elon should PERSONALLY reimburse me - not). Tesla is poised to dominate for years with the best electric cars on the market. The frantic OEMs scrambling to catch up will only further accelerate the electrification of the global fleet. The next ten years will be stunning and a great time to be alive.
Everyone who borrowed money to buy the car - no one told you to do that. If you need me to tell you that the worst investment you could make is to buy a new car, and that you should treat it like an awful stock investment that drops thirty to fifty percent a year, well then the term clueless comes to mind. Don’t do it again if you did. Never borrow money you absolutely do not have to buy a car.
Complainers about how the company screwed you and how you are under water now because of evil Elon and bad Tesla...see above.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that tens of thousands of dollars is not a lot of money to you. Stop and think for a second about a price fluctuation that would upset you. It might be a million dollars. For someone who can barely afford a Model 3, a shift of $4,000-$9,000 in weeks is a heavy burden. You have to keep in mind that Tesla has been drawing in new crowds of people who stretch themselves to buy this car. They want to be confident in their purchase. That’s part of what mass production entails.
It is also not about the goal, but about the way in which the goal is reached. Elon could have easily accomplished the same goal with almost zero controversy. I said it in another post.
1. Correlate all price drops to match the reduction in the federal tax rebate and introduce the $35k SR after July. Do not sell an SR+ because this kills demand for the higher models.
2. Keep autopilot as 3 packages instead of 2. Make AP $3k, EAP $2k, and FSD $3k on delivery. Give all original owners 30 days to buy at those prices, too.
No one would have complained. Everyone would have ended up paying the same even though the cars went down $7,500 in cost by 2020.
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