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Did the $7k additional tax rebate pass?
- Thread starter davenlei
- Start date
PungoteagDave
Member
There is no chance that amy form of EV credit enhancement, extension or revision will get through the current Congress (next 18 months). After that the Repubs will likely have control and the chances will be less than zero. That's actually fine, as Elon Musk has said publicly that tax credits are now a negative for TEsla, as it no longer qualifies for them.
Regarding above, Americans do widely own stocks. As a graduate level finance instructor, I am aware of the myth you repeat, but the fact is that the market is dominated by defined benefit pension funds such as Teachers, CALPERS, and by IRA's and 401-k's, which you dismiss, but which now dominate the market's money flows. While 'only' 30% of the stock market's capitalization is owned by individuals, the vast majority of the rest, held by "institutions" is for the benefit of individuals - retirees or future retirees, or beneficiaries of institutions like the Alaska Permanent Fund, college endowments, insurance investment funds, etc. Folks might also be surprised by how much of the U.S. stock market is owned by overseas pension funds - especially those in the Netherlands (PGGM, Kempen, Dutch Metalworkers, etc.) and the UK, due to favorable tax treaties. At the end of the day, people own stocks, mostly non-wealthy people. Almost all stocks are owned indirectly and are managed either through ETFs or money managers. And most are owned by people who don't actually know it, but depend on them for their future well being.
On the second point, EV tax credits do not go to individuals - they go to the auto manufacturer. The consumer is only the conduit. If you don't believe that, look at Tesla and other manufacturers' pricing behavior when the credits burned off. Immediate price reductions ensued. There are rare instances where consumers don't qualify for the credits (happened to me due to a unique circumstance on one of my Teslas), but the fact is that most Teslas would have sold irrespective of the credit, and the entire program was a best a start-up incentive using borrowed money to kickstart EV driving - with the benefit going to the most directly to the company, indirectly to the 1% and ultimately to Elon Musk's personal net worth. Not saying that's a bad thing at all, just that its a fact.
I agree with your perspective on who drives a Tesla. As a person who spends significant time in third world locales with very little infrastructure, then returning to the U.S., which is 5% of world population, I am always astounded at what people assume to be status quo standard. The poorest person here lives a dream life compared to what we see in the high Andes or mud road villages in Malawi, Tanzania, Guatemala, or the Tibetan highlands. The interesting thing is that the people in those places tend to be far happier in our experience than the average up-tight navel-gazing over-extended Tesla driver.
I think you need to read the post I was commenting on, and his idea for the average American to make $10k in the markets.
suprax
Member
Why do you feel so strongly that there is no chance of an EV credit coming this Summer via the Biden infrastructure plan? Are all of the news and DC rumors so off base? Just yesterday there was reporting how $100b is being allocated to the EV POS rebate.
whisperingshad
Active Member
Problem is, by the time this passes the other rebates will probably be out of money like the grant...Also the price could always raise, i missed out on the 1k drop waiting for the grant to be processed and then waitlisted. Hopefully they retro to all of 2021.
Sure, lots of what ifs, but the previous poster is just wrong. The infrastructure bill is passing with, or without GOP support.
whisperingshad
Active Member
It will likely pass, when, how much of a rebate, what cars it will cover and retro or not are the big ?s
They raised the price of the model Y $500 tonight. This is getting frustrating with the price changes.
TravelFree
Active Member
"If you make changes to your order, you may be subject to potenyial price increases for any pricing
adjustments made since your original Order Date. Any changes made by you to your Vehicle Configuration, including changes to the delivery loca0on or
es0mated delivery date, will be reflected in a subsequent Vehicle Configuration that will form part of this Agreement."
This section would insinuate that we shouldn't get a price hike, maybe I'm missing the paragraph you're talking about?
adjustments made since your original Order Date. Any changes made by you to your Vehicle Configuration, including changes to the delivery loca0on or
es0mated delivery date, will be reflected in a subsequent Vehicle Configuration that will form part of this Agreement."
This section would insinuate that we shouldn't get a price hike, maybe I'm missing the paragraph you're talking about?
TravelFree
Active Member
Terms of order Agreement:
"2. Final Price Sheet:The Final Price Sheet will be provided to you as your delivery date nears. It will include final pricing based on your final Vehicle Configuration and will include taxes and official or governmental fees."
More details in the small print but as I see it, if they claim the original configuration at time of order is no longer available, Tesla will deliver a close match. So, if Tesla says when I ordered the MY AWD had original lights and now has an upgraded lights then they can charge the new price for the car because it has new lights. I only use this as a possible example. Of course if taxes and fees change that will be adjusted to the date of delivery too which is to be expected.
The big one is for those who ordered a Model S and now the only Model S are the refresh version at $10,000 more. Some are reporting their price has been adjusted because they no longer have original Model S to sell. They also claim you can cancel the order but will be charged the non-refundable deposit and delivery charges. There is a paragraph that addresses the Model S Refresh. If you ordered the Refresh it basically states it is a "preorder" and can be cancelled with deposit refunded.
At the end of the day, Tesla is still a car and sales and marketing does everything to benefit the Car company. They raise prices because the demand is high, higher than their production capacity. I see the delivery now is 6-10 weeks but my time didn't change yet. Still April 23-May5
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CapeOne
Active Member
There are also ICE automakers selling lower priced cars that have standard powertrain warranties similar to or better than what Tesla offers on the M3 and MY e.g., Hyundai, Kia and Mitsubishi all have 10 years/100,000 miles warranties. Plus, ICE automakers offer extended powertrain warranties (service agreements) for those who want longer protection plans.
Automakers typically offer standard warranties that match the competition and those offering more are often using it as a marketing tool.....or reassurance tool if they are new to the market or had a poor quality/reliability reputation they want to overcome.
TravelFree
Active Member
I find it so often when asked to clarify my point in a post there is always someone who will find an off the wall corner case to make a claim I'm wrong. I'm pleased to see you at least admitted the case for " poor quality/reliability reputation they want to overcome." I just picked the two US ICE automakers with decent reputation, Ford and GM to point out how these two are different than the Tesla,. Interesting that Ford, on a quick check has a much longer warranty on their Mach E than they do on their ICE cars. They offer 8yr 100,000 miles.
A friend recently was considering a Tesla Model Y and was concerned about the life of the battery as he was convinced from a Honda salesman that their CR-V was a superior warranty even though it was only 60,000miles 5 years. CR-V is a nice Gasser and cost him about the same and is from a reputable company- Honda. However he does about 20,000 miles a year so I had to point out how his drive train warranty was only 3 years and the Tesla would be for 6 years. Then we compared the cost of gas vs electricity charging at home. He is paying $2300 for gas a year projected for the CR-V. The Tesla would be $309.50 He usually keeps a car 6-8 years. At the end of the conversation, he said he will buy a Tesla next year to replace his other car, a 2013 Camry. He had to admit he was fooled by the Honda salesman. The Camry is long out of warranty and is costing him $1200 in annual repairs. We also talked about how brakes wear on many EV's ( not all) with one pedal driving. He had no idea how that was a factor with the Tesla. The technology, he claimed was not worth that much to him as he said he just doesn't understand the advantage of auto pilot. I explained that the only way to know that is to drive one with an instructor to show him how it works.
CapeOne
Active Member
Admitted?? I was pointing out that the length of a warranty can be based on a variety of things that don't necessarily have to do with reliability, durability, quality, repair costs, etc. whether ICE or EV. Ford probably offers a longer (8 years/100,000 miles) standard warranty on the Mach-E than their ICE vehicles simply because they are matching the competition. It's similar to why Ford Motor Company offers longer standard warranties on their Lincoln ICE vehicles than their Ford ICE vehicles.
TravelFree
Active Member
Look I agreed with you but from the customer's point of view, I couldn't give a flip why they offer a warrantee as long as they honor it. Back to my original comparison, the warranty on the Tesla is better than the cars under consideration. So, it matters to the buyer. If the buyer were planning to compare your Lincoln to a Tesla then the warranty wouldn't matter in the cost of long term ownership. They would be equal. If Gasoline were the same price per mile as electricity then that wouldn't matter either. But they aren't. We don't compare cost or wiper blades either because both have 2 that likely need replacement the same time. Same with tire rotation. Some things cost of ownership matters, others don't.
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