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Disappointing experience with lease return

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
3,123
2,092
DFW
Misrepresenting the material facts of the situation to make a point is not reasonable either. Nobody is getting charged $4500 for a windshield replacement. It seems clear you know that, so what is your end game?
All in the game though, right? OP should at the very least pursue an itemized invoice to determine what’s actually inflating the #’s.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
14,322
18,156
Riverside Co. CA
so what is your end game?

@ElectricIAC has been extremely consistent on pretty much every position they take here on TMC, along with very liberal use of the reactions to express what they do and dont like. They put what they are after, right in their title:

Screen Shot 2021-12-04 at 5.11.07 PM.png


Half the time, I am not sure if they actually believe what they are advocating for, or simply "making conversation".
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
3,123
2,092
DFW
@ElectricIAC has been extremely consistent on pretty much every position they take here on TMC, along with very liberal use of the reactions to express what they do and dont like. They put what they are after, right in their title:

View attachment 740729

Half the time, I am not sure if they actually believe what they are advocating for, or simply "making conversation".
You’ve got my number for the most part, but I really do dislike US Bank‘s predatory nature regarding auto leases. It really makes you appreciate the captive banks a lot more.

Tesla could afford to spin off a finance arm at this point and set more favorable terms for lesses.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
14,322
18,156
Riverside Co. CA
You’ve got my number for the most part, but I really do dislike US Bank‘s predatory nature regarding auto leases. It really makes you appreciate the captive banks a lot more.

Tesla could afford to spin off a finance arm at this point and set more favorable terms for lesses.

I know thats not what this thread is about, but I have had "a relationship" with BMW Financial services for like 15 years now, through several lease cycles for both my and my wifes BMWs. I just bought out my wifes 2019 X3 that was coming off lease (for once, worth more than the residual, and substantially so), so I still have an account there.

I have had good experiences with them (BMW FS) over the years, so I happen to be a fan of "captive finance arms" as it relates to Auto loans / deals. Also allows them more flexibility in massaging things like Residual values, etc etc. I know you know all this though as I believe you are (or at least were) in the auto industry in some capacity or other.

Anyway, back to the thread topic. My own opinion here is that most of this is self inflicted by the OP, but they at least should get an itemized accounting of the charges.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
8,390
16,362
California
@ElectricIAC has been extremely consistent on pretty much every position they take here on TMC, along with very liberal use of the reactions to express what they do and dont like. They put what they are after, right in their title:

View attachment 740729

Half the time, I am not sure if they actually believe what they are advocating for, or simply "making conversation".
Yeah, I get that and have of course noticed the same. I guess my point is you can be endlessly contrary and argumentative while not fundamentally misrepresenting the facts.
 
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Although I posted in the hope of acquiring some insight on how to proceed, the tone in the replies has (surprisingly) been pretty adversarial. I don't intend to come off as self-righteous or entitled, so I apologize if that's how my OP was taken. I really am sincerely looking for advice; if you feel compelled to weigh in with "it's all your fault" or "you should have..." that's fine, but not particularly helpful.

First, I will follow the advice given above: I'll ask for an itemized invoice (though I don't know whom to ask, since again the invoice total was sent from [email protected]).

I suspected that the insurance adjuster lowballed the estimate for the first set of damage (when the car self-harmed into a garage wall... NBC reporter actually interviewed me about this, and was especially interested in Tesla's complete disavowal of any responsibility). I could regale you all with the 6 months of attempts to get this repaired, but I'll just skip this part altogether. Most people here just blame me, and that's fine... let's move on.

Consider just the windshield: it cracked 2 weeks before the return date; Tesla required me to carry comprehensive insurance up to the return date; Tesla will not work with insurance they required me to have, but instead billed me for the full amount (I don't know how much because the invoice isn't itemized). The windshield could not be repaired in the final 2 weeks because Tesla is taking 6 weeks to get glass to repair shops; Tesla generously offered to charge me nearly $3000 to hold the car for those 6 weeks while we wait for Tesla to provide glass. I declined.

I guess I'm being irrational in feeling that this is deeply unfair? I guess... I have talked to both Lease Returns (via email) and my local rep (who is very sympathetic but there's only so much she can do), with nothing beyond "sorry, sucks to be you" in essence.

I'll try and call Geico on Monday and explain to them the circumstances above, but they may say they need to examine the car (too late), they will likely need to know what Tesla is charging for the glass (but Tesla doesn't send an itemized invoice so I'll have to pursue this myself), and they may not be able to help at this point.

Part of me just wants to pay the $4,500 and get on with life... part of me feels this is pretty unfair and I should at least push back a little. Ugh.
 
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ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
3,123
2,092
DFW
Although I posted in the hope of acquiring some insight on how to proceed, the tone in the replies has (surprisingly) been pretty adversarial. I don't intend to come off as self-righteous or entitled, so I apologize if that's how my OP was taken. I really am sincerely looking for advice; if you feel compelled to weigh in with "it's all your fault" or "you should have..." that's fine, but not particularly helpful.

First, I will follow the advice given above: I'll ask for an itemized invoice (though I don't know whom to ask, since again the invoice total was sent from [email protected]).

I suspected that the insurance adjuster lowballed the estimate for the first set of damage (when the car self-harmed into a garage wall... NBC reporter actually interviewed me about this, and was especially interested in Tesla's complete disavowal of any responsibility). I could regale you all with the 6 months of attempts to get this repaired, but I'll just skip this part altogether. Most people here just blame me, and that's fine... let's move on.

Consider just the windshield: it cracked 2 weeks before the return date; Tesla required me to carry comprehensive insurance up to the return date; Tesla will not work with insurance they required me to have, but instead billed me for the full amount (I don't know how much because the invoice isn't itemized). The windshield could not be repaired in the final 2 weeks because Tesla is taking 6 weeks to get glass to repair shops; Tesla generously offered to charge me nearly $3000 to hold the car for those 6 weeks while we wait for Tesla to provide glass. I declined.

I guess I'm being irrational in feeling that this is deeply unfair? I guess... I have talked to both Lease Returns (via email) and my local rep (who is very sympathetic but there's only so much she can do), with nothing beyond "sorry, sucks to be you" in essence.

I'll try and call Geico on Monday and explain to them the circumstances above, but they may say they need to examine the car (too late), they will likely need to know what Tesla is charging for the glass (but Tesla doesn't send an itemized invoice so I'll have to pursue this myself), and they may not be able to help at this point.

Part of me just wants to pay the $4,500 and get on with life... part of me feels this is pretty unfair and I should at least push back a little. Ugh.
I’d push back and push back hard. And never lease a Tesla again, at least until they dump US Bank.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,507
7,141
Austin, TX
This is reasonable. $4,500 is not.

Not apples to apples. I’m mostly wondering why people are paying body shops more to replace the front glass. Or do Tesla service center prices vary?

For OP, I’d demand an itemized receipt and see if insurance would work with them at least on the glass. And possibly argue the cost of the other stuff.

Does Tesla/US bank offer pre-turnin inspections like some others?
 
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I’d push back and push back hard. And never lease a Tesla again, at least until they dump US Bank.
This has nothing to do with USBank. Doesn't matter who the lease is through, if you turn it in with damage they'll penalize you. Period.

OP is doing so crazy mental gymnastics here to blame everyone but himself. You were responsible for returning a car without damage beyond normal wear and tear per the contract you signed before you ever took the car.

The only way this becomes complex is if you're refusing to 1) accept responsibility for actions or inactions that caused the damage (stop blaming beta software that you agreed to use carefully & be ready to take over at any moment) to occur in the first place and 2) fix said damaged before attempting to turn the car in.

People like you giving interviews to people with an agenda against Tesla to further excuse your own negligence impacts all of us negativity.

Fix the car you broke as you agreed to or pay the for repairs as you agreed to. You signed the paperwork when you took on the lease. Time to be an adult & stop looking for someone else to blame.
 
This has nothing to do with USBank. Doesn't matter who the lease is through, if you turn it in with damage they'll penalize you. Period.

OP is doing so crazy mental gymnastics here to blame everyone but himself. You were responsible for returning a car without damage beyond normal wear and tear per the contract you signed before you ever took the car.

The only way this becomes complex is if you're refusing to 1) accept responsibility for actions or inactions that caused the damage (stop blaming beta software that you agreed to use carefully & be ready to take over at any moment) to occur in the first place and 2) fix said damaged before attempting to turn the car in.

People like you giving interviews to people with an agenda against Tesla to further excuse your own negligence impacts all of us negativity.

Fix the car you broke as you agreed to or pay the for repairs as you agreed to. You signed the paperwork when you took on the lease. Time to be an adult & stop looking for someone else to blame.
Ugh..

Assume you have a leased car, and you have agreed to return it in good shape. Two weeks before turn-in, it gets damaged, so in good faith you attempt to repair it. The repair shop says that Tesla will cause a delay of two months to get parts. Tesla offers to extend your lease for two months for $3000.

Are you saying this is fair? Would you accept their kind offer and extend the lease? What if the car is damaged again in those two months? Extend two more?

Your posts contains typos, logical fallacies, mind-reading, and accusations based on things you don't know. You must be fun at parties.
 

AMPd

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2012
5,014
5,343
Northern California
Ugh..

Assume you have a leased car, and you have agreed to return it in good shape. Two weeks before turn-in, it gets damaged, so in good faith you attempt to repair it. The repair shop says that Tesla will cause a delay of two months to get parts. Tesla offers to extend your lease for two months for $3000.

Are you saying this is fair? Would you accept their kind offer and extend the lease? What if the car is damaged again in those two months? Extend two more?

Your posts contains typos, logical fallacies, mind-reading, and accusations based on things you don't know. You must be fun at parties.
I had the same exact fear months leading up to my lease return, I was worried about someone damaging my car and having to wait months for repairs and how all that would play out. Fortunately nothing happened but even so I learned that leasing a Tesla kinda sucks because of the long shop repair times. My second model s spent 3 months waiting at the shop for front end damage repairs, 2.5 months of that was waiting for parts. Couldn’t drive it for the 3 months but still paying for it.
 
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Ugh..

Assume you have a leased car, and you have agreed to return it in good shape. Two weeks before turn-in, it gets damaged, so in good faith you attempt to repair it. The repair shop says that Tesla will cause a delay of two months to get parts. Tesla offers to extend your lease for two months for $3000.

Are you saying this is fair? Would you accept their kind offer and extend the lease? What if the car is damaged again in those two months? Extend two more?

Your posts contains typos, logical fallacies, mind-reading, and accusations based on things you don't know. You must be fun at parties.
I'm saying I wouldn't have entered into such an agreement in the first place. This is yet another reason why leasing vehicles is for fools and those who like to act like they're somehow smarter than the rest of us. Just like you pointing out typos as if that somehow negates my point.
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
3,123
2,092
DFW
I'm saying I wouldn't have entered into such an agreement in the first place. This is yet another reason why leasing vehicles is for fools and those who like to act like they're somehow smarter than the rest of us. Just like you pointing out typos as if that somehow negates my point.
I wouldn’t say that about all leases, but for Tesla Leases 100%. Especially since Penfed will now do balloon loans on Tesla cars.
 
I wouldn’t say that about all leases, but for Tesla Leases 100%. Especially since Penfed will now do balloon loans on Tesla cars.
I would. Financing a depreciating asset is a terrible financial move and leasing is even worse. If you have a "financial advisor" telling you different you need to fire them and get someone who actually understands finances well enough to calculate for risk. That's a separate topic though so I'll leave that be to avoid further derailing this thread.

The bottom line is the OP had the agreement spelled out to him very clearly before agreeing to terms. He agreed to terms. Now he has to fulfill his end of the agreement or pay the penalty. All of his "issues with Tesla" are issues of his own creation. It doesn't get much more simple than that.
 
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