Do 'Performance' models have different parts / hardware?

[Boomski]

TLDR: What makes a P model S have more performance? Software, hardware/part, both?

Obviously I know the P variations are faster than their non-P counterparts, but how is this achieved? Is this simply a software thing where they allow a larger power draw, or is there physical additions / improvements to the vehicle, allowing better performance.

 

[jdw]

The rear motor is much larger and the iconel contactors & pyro fuses, in addition to software, allow for much more current (power) draw from the battery. Plus, Ludicrous+ heats the battery to an optimum temperature.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Both.

 

[Boomski]

Great, thanks for the info.

 

[demundus]

Its a little more than what was said, but the jist is correct. The rear motor and battery pack are rated for "performance", although in most vehicles it is the same between non and P... meaning its software limited. The main difference in allowing the limitation to be lifted is the pack fuse rating (between the pack and the motor). Again, in older models, the packfuse was capable of handling performance peak amperage, but was limited down. Imagine it like they could produce one set of parts for all cars and then just tune them down to make different trims... easier than producing two types of drivetrains.

Depending on the year, you could LIKELY flash the firmware and you'd be a P car.

 

[Boomski]

Again, in older models, the packfuse was capable of handling performance peak amperage, but was limited down. Imagine it like they could produce one set of parts for all cars and then just tune them down to make different trims... easier than producing two types of drivetrains.

That's crazy, which model years was this possible? Safe to assume this will void any warranty that was on the vehicle

 

[ucmndd]

Its a little more than what was said, but the jist is correct. The rear motor and battery pack are rated for "performance", although in most vehicles it is the same between non and P... meaning its software limited. The main difference in allowing the limitation to be lifted is the pack fuse rating (between the pack and the motor). Again, in older models, the packfuse was capable of handling performance peak amperage, but was limited down. Imagine it like they could produce one set of parts for all cars and then just tune them down to make different trims... easier than producing two types of drivetrains.

Depending on the year, you could LIKELY flash the firmware and you'd be a P car.

I don't think this is true for S/X. The rear motor is physically larger and more powerful in P models. This is evident in the 60 pound curb weight difference between P and non-P.

 

[Dithermaster]

I don't think this is true for S/X. The rear motor is physically larger and more powerful in P models. This is evident in the 60 pound curb weight difference between P and non-P.

It's also why slightly less range on Performance model.

 

[demundus]

The pack that was in my base 2013 was capable of supporting a P motor. I was given a P85D motor on warranty which worked with my P pack after checking the amperage rating on the packfuse of the "base" pack. I have heard, anecdotally, that the only difference on earlier cars was the packfuse and software. If I could source a higher rated (p85d-I/L etc) packfuse, I could get the full juice from that motor.

I believe it to a point, that Tesla saves alot more money and overhead/headache in producing one motor and one pack, and limiting the amount of performance through firmware and the amount of amperage the packfuse can support. I'd bet money that im WRONG for later model years, and especially the X.

 

[jdw]

The pack that was in my base 2013 was capable of supporting a P motor. I was given a P85D motor on warranty which worked with my P pack after checking the amperage rating on the packfuse of the "base" pack. I have heard, anecdotally, that the only difference on earlier cars was the packfuse and software. If I could source a higher rated (p85d-I/L etc) packfuse, I could get the full juice from that motor.

You are aware that current P cars have two motors, while the P85 had a single rear motor right? The P85D had the same rear motor as the P85, but also had an additional front motor.

 

[Saghost]

The pack that was in my base 2013 was capable of supporting a P motor. I was given a P85D motor on warranty which worked with my P pack after checking the amperage rating on the packfuse of the "base" pack. I have heard, anecdotally, that the only difference on earlier cars was the packfuse and software. If I could source a higher rated (p85d-I/L etc) packfuse, I could get the full juice from that motor.

I believe it to a point, that Tesla saves alot more money and overhead/headache in producing one motor and one pack, and limiting the amount of performance through firmware and the amount of amperage the packfuse can support. I'd bet money that im WRONG for later model years, and especially the X.

This may be correct, for the original RWD S cars.

All modern S and X are dual motor, and the rear motors are completely different between long range and performance models - the performance cars have a large rear drive unit that's basically the same as the old RWD cars, while the standard and long range versions have a smaller drive unit similar to the front unit.

 

[demundus]

You are aware that current P cars have two motors, while the P85 had a single rear motor right? The P85D had the same rear motor as the P85, but also had an additional front motor.

Yes, that is very obvious.

However P85D variants arguably are tuned "UP" even above a P85, even though they share the same motor

P85 modded to be a P85 w/Ludicrous

 

[BPeter]

Currently, the only difference seems to be the larger rear motor, wiring for the rear motor, and software. May inverter too? Battery part number is shared for the P100D and 100D. Maybe the fuse they put in there is different, but the rest of the pack seems to be the same.

 

[Saghost]

Currently, the only difference seems to be the larger rear motor, wiring for the rear motor, and software. May inverter too? Battery part number is shared for the P100D and 100D. Maybe the fuse they put in there is different, but the rest of the pack seems to be the same.

Drive Inverters on Teslas are built in to the drive unit assemblies, adjacent to the motors.

Yes, they certainly are different between Performance and not, but it's part of the drive unit and the wrong one won't physically fit onto the drive unit.

 

[Dithermaster]

This may be correct, for the original RWD S cars.

It's definitively not correct. The original RWD cars had larger motors in the P variant. I know; I have one. It's always been the case, for RWD, AWD, and Raven. It's the reason the P cars get slightly lower range than the non-P with equivalent battery size.

 

[BPeter]

It's definitively not correct. The original RWD cars had larger motors in the P variant. I know; I have one. It's always been the case, for RWD, AWD, and Raven. It's the reason the P cars get slightly lower range than the non-P with equivalent battery size.

I'm pretty sure someone here like wk057 or ingineer flashed an old 85 to a P85 without issue.

 

[demundus]

I'm pretty sure someone here like wk057 or ingineer flashed an old 85 to a P85 without issue.

WK flashed MY 85 to a p85, and im sure many others.

HATERS WILL SAY ITS FAKE

 

[dk10438]

I'm pretty sure someone here like wk057 or ingineer flashed an old 85 to a P85 without issue.

seems improbable since the greater output of the performance cars requires wiring upgrades to accommodate increased current. Maybe the car was flashed and "worked" but I suspect that it was at risk for a fire or a short due to wires/fuses unable to safely transmit the increased current.

 

[demundus]

seems improbable since the greater output of the performance cars requires wiring upgrades to accommodate increased current. Maybe the car was flashed and "worked" but I suspect that it was at risk for a fire or a short due to wires/fuses unable to safely transmit the increased current.

two words guys:

pack

fuse

 

[hmmm]

Reviving this thread as there is a lot of knowledge here.

So, my 2016 MS75 (under warranty) is at my local service center. It just died as I was pulling out of a parking lot at 3 mph: "Pull over now" message with flashing lights on the dash. It didn't move one inch after that warning came on and it sounded like the parking brake triggered., i.e. I never got a chance to "pull over" which, in and of itself is a little scary. I wonder what would have happened at speed on the highway. Still love the car, but a bit worrisome.

They had not run a deep diagnostic yet when I went back to pick up a loaner the next day but the tech that was around my car wondered out loud if it could be a drive unit failure. I asked what they would do in that case as I suspect they don't have '16 ones laying around and he just said they would give me the current one. Not sure how different they are, but that sounds good to me.

On my way home, I then started wondering whether I could get slightly better performance out of this ordeal, so I would love to learn more:

- Is that a possibility in the first place?
- If so, are there other parts beyond the drive unit that they would need to be upgraded as well (fuse? What is the actual technical term?) and if so, would those be part of a "standard" drive unit replacement?
- Anything else I should ask about? I am trying to understand what questions I should ask to get to that end state (better perf), if it's a technical possibility.

Thank you in advance.